Urgent Insurance advice - Carpark smash

[EnthusiastOwned]

Great!

Just had a phone call from my office reception. Someone's left their handbrake off and their cars rolled down a hill into mine.

My front bumpers ripped in half, all the front grilles are ruined, bonnet bent, fog lights broke, parking sensors popped out. It's pushed the car back around 2 foot into the wall (but rear bumper damage is only scuffs, but probably has internal damage).

I have all the insurance details from the other chap. Do I need to call mine? I've never made a claim before, so what do I do?

The cars only covered 3,500 miles. Gutted.

[EnthusiastOwned]

I'm covered. I know this because my insurance renewal is tomorrow. Sod law!

DSC_0335 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Wednesday 15th June 09:12

[EnthusiastOwned]

Thanks chaps,

Just calling their insurers now. To be fair to he guy by the time I realised what had happened he had put in the claim.

What happens with my renewal? Do I need to put it down as a claim?

[EnthusiastOwned]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I've called their insurers (Covea via M&S) and put the claim in with them. Courtesy car sorted via enterprise (managed to get a like for like so presuming an Astra or similar) and my car is being picked up in the next 24 hours (awaiting a phone call) from a company called FixAuto - Never heard of them but they are approved, only use genuine parts, lifetime warranty and doesn't affect my Seat warranty/guarantee.

I've informed my insures who have put it down as a notice (they first put it down as a claim!) meaning it doesn't affect my NCB or excess etc, but may affect my renewal, I'll call up to find out shortly.

The other chap was very apologetic, sounded like a decent bloke and he had confirmed liability with his insurers all very quickly and efficiently. Turns out it was a 2014 Freelander, that explains the damage. Still pissed off, but it could have been worse (the guy could have done a runner!).

One other question. I have a classic car insurance policy for my MK1 Golf. Do I need to notify them? I don't want them to invalidate any potential claim because of a technicality.

[EnthusiastOwned]

Just checked my online quote.

Didn't make a difference. At all. Which is nice. Good ol' Co-Op.

[EnthusiastOwned]

Bit of an update.

I'm going through their insurers who's been really good so far. I had a courtesy car within a few hours, a Nissan Juke - Great spec and brand new, it's just a Nissan Juke

My car has been picked up today for an estimation/repair so fingers crossed. I can't foresee any issues and I'll get a phone call within a couple of days to let me know what's happening. I did notice when the car was put on the loader (was the first time I've seen the car in daylight) that the rear bumper had took a bigger hit than expected, the rear indent in the bumper where the plastic sits had marks, meaning the bumper had flexed a good few inches for this to happen, I suspect the innards will be damaged.

One thing has crossed my mind, will I get to inspect the car before taking it back? I like my cars (obviously) and I don't really want to be accepting anything short as it was before, perfect. I don't want to be driving around in a poorly repaired or bent car for the next few years. Is that unreasonable to expect? Do I go to them, do they bring the car to me?

Also, I have a classic policy for a MK1 Golf - Do I need to notify them of this claim?

Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Saturday 8th October 10:00

[EnthusiastOwned]

BuzzBravado said:

I did when it happened to me. 4 different policies and they all added a slice at renewal time.

4 different!? Ouch! I'll give them a call over the weekend then. Didn't affect my current, so fingers crossed.

Hudson said:

A Juke?! you should have pushed for an Austin Maxi and an hour in the pain glove, now we'll all have to pay £20k to insure our cars

As for the Golf, the insurers will know you've been involved in an accident as it goes on a database, If it effects your policy or not is down to them i'm afraid. I would imagine more specialist insurers (IE the ones that offer classic car insurance) won't be as tight as the mainstream lot?

Haha, to be fair it's a decent spec so can't complain at all, I'm enjoying driving it as a guilty pleasure kind of thing (I really want to try a Nismo Juke now!).

I'll give my insurance a call.

[EnthusiastOwned]

edo said:

You have a right to chose where it goes, and you def have a right to inspect it before it is given back.

eybic said:

As said, it is up to you whether you accept the repair or not, if you have an issue the insurers will probably send an assessor out.

Cheers guys.

The company has some good reviews and they've been saying the right things. Lifetime warranty, genuine parts only, fixed to manufactures spec, 4 wheel alignment and laser rig tested, road tested etc.

I probably should have took loads of pictures as a comparison before, but didn't get chance and the car was in an underground car park so lighting was too poor.

[EnthusiastOwned]

Just had an update from the repairers.

The rear bumper has polished out with no further damage. Not sure if I should be sceptical about that or not. The car moved a good few feet into a solid wall, I would have expected internal damage, but what do I know - thoughts?

The front end had been removed and no structural damage, just bumper, grills, bracing and bonnet. The front bumper will be replaced but unsure of the bonnet (I should have asked). The bonnet was bent to the front, quite minor all things considered but bent nevertheless. It'll need re-bending and filler - I'm not sure how I feel about filler on a brand new car, especially on something as open to chips like the front end of a bonnet. Should I be asking for a new panel?

Also things like brackets etc, if they were snapped; is it reasonable for these to be repaired or should they be replaced? E.g. I noticed one of my fixings on the foglight casing had snapped clean off, should I expect the whole foglight unit to be replaced or the fixing to be repaired with adhesive etc?

[EnthusiastOwned]

Thanks Chaps.

I was going to buy it outright but it's actually on a PCP - 0% interest free and was planning to buy it out after the term (no chance of that now).

I'll speak to the insurers today and stress I don't want any filler. New panels only and no plastic welding.

I've been thinking and I'm concerned about the rear bumper. The car took a knock big enough to move it a good couple of feet, into a wall with enough force to bounce off it - with the handbrake on and in gear! It only has scuffs visually, but it's the internals i'm worried about. Surely without removing the bumper to take a look no one would be able to tell if there was any damage? I don't want to be driving around with a weakened bumper for safety reasons. Should I be insisting they investigate further?

[EnthusiastOwned]

anniesdad said:

TazLondon said:

I'd be surprised if they use filler for repairs. They ought to be replacing panels. Is your car still under the manufacturers warranty? If so, any repairs would need to comply with the terms of that warranty, which would usually mean replacement parts to OEM spec.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. The OP is asking the third party insurers to handle the repairs, the likelihood is that their instructed engineer will argue parts replacement and argue the cost down to something more palatable for them. In this case it is their approved repairer that is doing the repair. Fix Auto aren't the best for repairing cars, they're just one of the biggest bodyshop groups so do a lot of work for the insurance industry. They may well be working to a fixed fee arrangement with the insurers so there is no real incentive on the bodyshop to take their time.

Sadly insurers aren't too concerned about handling claims for non-client third parties and ensuring that manufacturer paintwork warranties are kept intact.

edited: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance...

Edited by anniesdad on Monday 13th June 11:21

And this is my concern. The insurers will be wanting to fix this as cheap as possible and will be willing to cut corners everywhere, what the eye can't see springs to mind as 9/10 people wouldn't know any better, or care. I've already received a letter stating the labour rate is £28 an hour, that's worryingly cheap. The insurers will have negotiated (hard) with the repairs for the rate, so what else would have have been negotiated at the same time to meet that rate? On the flip side, because labour rate is so cheap will the repairs want to drag it out to get the monies worth, or is it just a numbers game, in and out as fast as possible?

[EnthusiastOwned]

anniesdad said:

You're right sadly and that is to the economic benefit of the insurers. I would suggest you get copies of all the repair paperwork ie. repair estimate, authority, engineers report (if applicable), repair invoice, guarantee and satisfaction note that you will sign if/when you are happy with the repairs. Don't be surprised though that if you are not happy with the repairs and refuse to take your car back until you are that the courtesy/hire car that you have been provided with will be taken from you.

Can they do that? I couldn't do without a car for a prolonged period. I'd have to hire another.

I'm wondering if I should have gone to an accident management company to fight my corner.

[EnthusiastOwned]

anniesdad said:

EnthusiastOwned said:

Can they do that? I couldn't do without a car for a prolonged period. I'd have to hire another.

I've first hand experience of this happening. I'm not saying they will/they won't only that they won't want to pay (the hire company) for a car any longer than necessary and where they feel it is their responsibility. If your issue is with the bodyshop they may well insist that the bodyshop provide you with a car. Whether the bodyshop decide to do that or not is up to them.

It would be worth asking the question, not to the hire company that supplied you with the replacement car but to the insurers themselves.

Out of interest have you had to pay anything towards the hire car? CDW fees etc?

Well, the insurance company is Covea, the car is rented with Enterprise via Covea, all I paid was a £1 refundable deposit (for excess purposes). I was told I'll keep the hire car until my car is repaired to my satisfaction. As far as I'm concerned, my contract is with Covea not the bodyshop - I suppose if they want to play hardball I'll just get a management company involved, but i'm trying to keep costs down, it affects us all at the end of the day.

I'm in two minds though - Do I push for replacement panels and parts to ensure it's the best repair possible, or if the repair is filler and glue but looks great do I accept (knowing it'll likely start to show after a good few years)? I'll only be keeping the car for a couple of years now and trading in. It's a trade off between hassle now or likely hassle in the future.

[EnthusiastOwned]

TazLondon said:

What does your manufacturer say about keeping the warranty intact? In the past I know that new OEM parts were mandated by the manufacturer (certainly the likes of Porsche do).

If it's a newish car, you really don't want bits of filler ending up with a bodge job that will show a few years down the line. You need to have the car repaired at a manufacturer-authorised bodyshop and not the Dave Down The Road bodyshop your insurer wants you to take it to.

You are perfectly entitled to specify this.

You'll probably lose the courtesy car but the bodyshop may give you one anyway and just add the cost of it on to the repair bill.

I checked, it's an approved bodyshop and won't affect my Seat Manufactures warranty - They only use genuine parts and only repair to manufactures specification. Apparently.

But yes, car was brand new in December so barly 6 months old, covered around 3,500 miles! I don't want any bodges.

edo said:

You are talking to one; Anniesdad. I can highly recommend his company.

Ahh, ok. How do management companies actually work?

[EnthusiastOwned]

anniesdad said:

EnthusiastOwned said:

Well, the insurance company is Covea, the car is rented with Enterprise via Covea, all I paid was a £1 refundable deposit (for excess purposes). I was told I'll keep the hire car until my car is repaired to my satisfaction. As far as I'm concerned, my contract is with Covea not the bodyshop - I suppose if they want to play hardball I'll just get a management company involved, but i'm trying to keep costs down, it affects us all at the end of the day.

I'm in two minds though - Do I push for replacement panels and parts to ensure it's the best repair possible, or if the repair is filler and glue but looks great do I accept (knowing it'll likely start to show after a good few years)? I'll only be keeping the car for a couple of years now and trading in. It's a trade off between hassle now or likely hassle in the future.

Maybe a call to the manufacturer to ask them if they would recognise a repair done by a Fix Auto site that involved filler as sufficient enough to maintain any paint/body warranty?

Make sure you get your £1 back. They're well known to keep hold of these, nice little earner!

Not sure you have a contract as such, quite probably the only document (to date) that you have signed would be a rental agreement for the car and quite possibly it's too late now to get an accident management company involved.

Clearly I'm a little biased when it comes to these sorts of incidents as my focus is only on making sure that the innocent party, the claimant, gets the best deal for them. What I can tell you though is that after 3 years of investigation, the Competition and Markets Authority came to the conclusion that to have in place an effective, impartial after accident solution costs us all about £1.60 a year. The info. is freely available on the web. Personally i reckon that's very good value when you consider the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes, not to mention the amount of support sometimes legal support that claimant's can enjoy. It also provides for a level of competition that keeps insurers honest. If the insurers got their way, they would be the only ones providing any service and we would all be at their mercy so we must be careful what we wish for!

E-mailed. I'd like you to take it over. After my own research, the bodyshop turns out NOT to be SEAT Approved; meaning i'll loose my 12 years bodywork warranty. But it's ok, I get 5 years insurance warranty!

[EnthusiastOwned]

So, bit of an update.

I e-mailed Stevie G (anniesdad) earlier today and he promptly phoned me about the claim, it's too late to take it on (isn't hindsight is a wonderful thing?), but we had a long chat about it all and.. What a very helpful and nice chap, thank you Stevie I really appreciate the time you took out of your day to guide me in the right direct. Massive thumbs up, I owe you a pint.

Back to business... As it stands I've found out the approved bodyshop where the Leon is currently, isn't Seat UK approved but BS10125 Kite Mark Approved. Apparently on the original phone call with the company when I asked if this will affect my new cars warranty and the insures said no it's an approved bodyshop, they were refereeing to this BS Mark approval. According to them, I should have been more specific in my request. I'm no expert in the field so my terminology could have been incorrect but the context of my warranty question should have been pretty obvious, I can't help but feel they are screwing me on a technicality.

Anyway, the crux of the matter is: Seat UK have reiterated unless the car is sent to a Seat UK bodyshop, warranty may be affected. The insurers are saying the BS Mark approval means it won't affect my warranty. I'm inclined to believe Seat UK, after all, they are the ones who will be honouring the warranty should i have to claim a few years down the line, not the insurers.
The insurers have stated the car is half way through the repair already so the car, simply; isn't going anywhere for the time being. I've said I won't accept a repair which voids any manufactures warranty so they shouldn't continue for the time being. The insurers are stating they need some type of proof (letter) from Seat UK advising the warranty stance in order for the car to go elsewhere, which I've requested. A massive headache, I should have gone AMC, like i say; hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[EnthusiastOwned]

Superhoop said:

I know it's still relatively new, but in respect of the warranty, Seat wouldn't honour a paint or corrosion claim on a panel that has been painted regardless - think about it, the warranty is against 'manufacturing defects' and if it has had paint, then anything that happens to that paint can't be as a result of a fault in manufacture I.e they warrant the paint they put on the car, not the paint someone else did.

As for worrying about the 12 year part - why? You said it was on a PCP and that now it had been damaged, you won't be keeping it, therefore you'll either be handing it back, or trading it against something else, so what happens in another 11 1/2 years time is largely irrelevant to you, it'll be someone else's problem - that may sound harsh, but it is true.

Having said all of that, I'd still want repaired at a Seat approved body shop, as it should at least then be repaired in accordance with Seat's standards, using the correct brand (or brands) of paint, body sealers etc...

According to Seat UK, using a Seat UK approved repairer won't invalidate any paint warranty. But you said it in your last paragraph, Seat approved should be in accordance to Seat standards. Piece of mind more than anything. This bodyshop won't even inspect the rear bumper for damage so that's a labour/costs saving red flag for me unfortunately. I only started getting worried when I started learning of cutting corners.

It's naive to think an unapproved repair might not sting me when it comes time to sell; especially now Seat UK know. Will it effect value and re-sale? Who actually knows what information dealers are privy to and, what if a private buyer finds this thread in years to come then chases me for compensation? I know it's all what if's, but I don't think it's reasonable so the insurance company can save some money.

[EnthusiastOwned]

Bit of an update (I hate when threads stop without the final outcome).

I managed to get the car to a bodyshop with Seat Approval (same franchise, just a different branch). Only downside it was in Loughborough and too far away for them to deliver so I had to collect.

Anyhow, from their receipt of the car I received a phone call, they talked the talk so I was happy for them to proceed. A week or so goes by and the car was ready, went to collect and it was full of defects. Poor alignment, paint match was great but loads of dimples in the paint, over spray and the general paint defect. And they hadn't touched the rear bumper. They've rushed it. Oh well.

I marked all the affected areas and left the car with them for another go. A week later and the car was ready again. I went to collect and the repairs are better, but not perfect. Still has the odd dimple in the paint, the rear was better but had a minor chip, but most concerning is the alignment around the o/s headlight, it's not bad but something isn't right. They had to play with the bonnet then an there as it was sitting really low. I took the car anyway but made sure I had officially noted all the defects with the bodyshop, with proof. The car also drives to the right with the steering wheel straight forward, very minimal though.

Alignment:
DSC_0408 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0407 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0424 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0423 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0425 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Paint defects:
DSC_0422 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0414 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0415 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0417 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

DSC_0411 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Paint defects are really minor and hard to show in photo's (especially with the dirt on the car from the drive home). I admit that I am being VERY picky, but the cars as brand new as damnit. If it was 2-3 years old I would have accepted the repair no problem.

I've logged the defects with the insurer who's sending out an "independent" engineer for inspection. Which has been almost 2 weeks waiting so far. I've come to the realisation the cars never going to be right, it's potentially bent, but i'm still tied in to the finance for a another 2.5 years, gutted.

[EnthusiastOwned]

Cheers guys. It's all a bit crap really. I don't want the car anymore, if i'm honest. I'm hoping the assessor comes, say's it's bent and writes it off - One can dream, right?

I love cars, I'm invested more than most; which i'm sure all you PH'ers can relate. This car, although it's great and still fantastic to drive (PH disclaimer - just wish it was quicker), I no longer love; which just goes my principles as a car enthusiast. I want to be invested and treat everything I do in life with respect and it's no difference with the car I drive, it's who I am. I know it's only emotion, but it's all a bit of a shame really.

I've looked into trading the car and the negative equity is.. Well as you expect on any 6 month old car, painful. So do I keep the car, love it a little less and drive it a little harder, which grates against ever fibre in my body btw. Or do I cut my losses and start again?

I like bonding with cars and creating memories, something which I've inherited from my love of cars - I'm sure you all remember that fantastic holiday as a kid and that car your dad was driving (1989 Bournemouth in a 1987 Cavalier SRi 130 for those that wanted to know). I was hoping when it came time to move on, i'd do so with a lump in my throat and a thank you for the memories; now it'll only be a thank god and good riddance.

My head is saying stick with it until I have at least equal equity and move on. My heart and heavy right foot says sell my weekend toy (which I never use anyway) to cover my equity (and then some) and get a Golf R or S3. Man maths is starting to win in this department anyway, plus I've already negotiated with the Mrs and she's agreed! Winner!

The engineer is coming Monday, fingers crossed and wish me luck.

Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Saturday 23 July 19:49

[EnthusiastOwned]

Hi Chaps, update time.

The car's come back from the bodyshop after the 2nd rectification. Some things are fixed and new defects have appeared. The cars arrived dirty too so I've not had a proper look yet, so I'm sure I'll spot more. The Engineers apparently OK'd this. Now after all this time 3rd attempt and having an engineer on board, I'm starting to doubt myself - is this job acceptable on what was a 6 month old car that had covered 3,500 at the time of accident - Or am I being picky now?

Orange peel, poor fitting and lip on the paint:
20160911_102547 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Overspray (or dirt in the lacquer?):
20160911_102610 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
20160911_102619 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
20160911_102751 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
20160911_102816 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Run in the paint:
20160911_102758 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

New Scratch:
20160911_102615 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

This panel looks like it's been washed with a scourer (note, the lines are dirt):
20160911_102839 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
20160911_102856 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
20160911_102849 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Looks like Lacquer burn (really hard to photo with a phone, so pointed it out) - This seems to marry up with the pin hole before:
20160911_102932 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
20160911_102949 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

couple of small pin holes:
20160911_103135 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Loads of little stone chips (how!?):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/79450435@N03/2931244...

Orange Peel:
20160911_103216 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Window seals (i've maged to pull them out but the seals are now creased and need replacing:
20160911_103245 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
20160911_103300 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Overspray on the foam insert:
20160911_103313 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr

Nice lip on the paint:
20160911_103343 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr