Importing and driving a 500 back from Italy - advice
Discussion
So, I'm going to see my dad in Italy tomorrow and whilst there I thought it might be fun for me to buy an old Fiat 500 and drive it back via the south of France to the UK.
Does anyone have any experience of doing this? Now I am a joint Italian/UK national but not resident in Italy so don't think I can re-register the car as a normal purchase in Italy, I believe I can buy it but then the plates will have to be taken off by the seller, leaving it unregistered and me unable to drive it. But there is a way of getting some temporary plates I think?
I'm going to document the whole thing with a video.. I'm sure it will be amusing when I break down on top of an alpine pass.
Does anyone have any experience of doing this? Now I am a joint Italian/UK national but not resident in Italy so don't think I can re-register the car as a normal purchase in Italy, I believe I can buy it but then the plates will have to be taken off by the seller, leaving it unregistered and me unable to drive it. But there is a way of getting some temporary plates I think?
I'm going to document the whole thing with a video.. I'm sure it will be amusing when I break down on top of an alpine pass.
Ok so..
Looked into it and the official way for a foreigner to export an Italian car is the following:
There is a little known provision in the Italian Traffic Code (article 99 CdS) which regulates the procedure to export an used vehicle previously registered in Italy to another country by issuing a "temporary registration document" (aka "foglio di via") and temporary license plates valid only for driving the vehicle from Italy to its destination country.
In order to obtain these, the foreign buyer should either get the following paperwork to the local "Ufficio Provinciale Motorizzazione Civile" (click here to find the nearest one), either by himself or with the help of a "Studio di Consulenza Automobilistica", which is an agency that will take care of the whole process (obviously for a fee).
1. A DTT2119 form, duly filled in by the buyer/driver;
2. Receipt for payment of € 9.00 on postal account no. 9001;
3. Receipt for payment of € 16.00 on postal account no. 4028;
4. Title of car ("certificato di proprietà"), showing that the previous plates were "cancelled for export";
5. Authorization to export the vehicle, filled in and signed by the seller;
6. Copy of the ID document of the seller;
7. Application for issuing temporary license plates, filled in and signed by the foreign buyer/driver;
8. Copy of the ID document of the buyer/driver;
9. Copy of the vehicle logbook ("carta di circolazione") showing the car's current roadworthiness inspection is still valid.
Process goes as follows:
1. Get insurance from your local insurance agency (they should be able to insure the car by tech specs + VIN) - green card. You DON'T have to get an Italian insurance
1a. Important: print out in clear big font your full name, home address, ID document number and car details (later you'll see why).
2. Go to Italy, check the car
3. Go with the seller to the bank (seller should make an appointment at his bank beforehand) and make the payment there. As a result you should have a receipt from the bank, that you've made a payment to the seller for a car and indicate the car specs there. Also you sign the sales contract in the bank (you can draw a contract together with the seller, just use common sense). You'll need to witnesses to seal the deal.
4. Together with seller go to nearest main office of auto agenzia. Things you take in:
- yourself and seller with ID documents
- both car licence plates
- bill of sale and sales contract
- car's "carta di circolazione" and "certificato di proprieta".
Car is deregistered from seller and taken off Italian roads (licence plates are taken) and registered for export under your name.
Things you leave the agency with:
- one cardboard temporary car licence plate (check that number matches to the one indicated in owner change form)
- car's updated "carta di circolazione" and "certificato di proprieta"
- owner change form (tt 2119)
- receipt for paying the agency services
5. That's it. Attach the licence plate at the rear window inside (since it's not waterproof) and given that you've got the green card, you should be good to go.
Unfortunately I've just been informed by the Agenzie Auto that it is now very hard to get the Radiazione per Esporto, i.e the Export licence as the Italian Govenrment now demands proof that the car is already abroad before granting it. This also means it is basically impossible to get the temporary export plates. It has apparently been implemented because I think people were pretending to have exported cars in order not to avoid one of the taxes.
I have however also been told that the Agenzie simply don't like doing it but that they are obliged to so I will try again when I get there this afternoon. In any case it seems to me that I have 3 options open to me:
1. Try and push through with the official process and the export plates despite the reluctance of the Agenzie. Ive downloaded all the cumbersome forms. I am however also worried on time frames, If I buy a car on Friday will the paperwork be ready by Wednesday morning when I need to leave?
2. Depending on the seller try and convince them to leave the plates with me till i register the car in the UK. Might just be doable since my dad lives locally.. but I still needs me to do a passaggio di proprieta in my name.. and not sure this is possible.
3. Get my dad to buy it as an Italian, then drive it up to the UK, register it here in his name (he is also registered at my house as has a bank account here in the UK), then send the plates back, get it deregistered in Italy and then finally put it in my name.
I'll keep you all updated.
Looked into it and the official way for a foreigner to export an Italian car is the following:
There is a little known provision in the Italian Traffic Code (article 99 CdS) which regulates the procedure to export an used vehicle previously registered in Italy to another country by issuing a "temporary registration document" (aka "foglio di via") and temporary license plates valid only for driving the vehicle from Italy to its destination country.
In order to obtain these, the foreign buyer should either get the following paperwork to the local "Ufficio Provinciale Motorizzazione Civile" (click here to find the nearest one), either by himself or with the help of a "Studio di Consulenza Automobilistica", which is an agency that will take care of the whole process (obviously for a fee).
1. A DTT2119 form, duly filled in by the buyer/driver;
2. Receipt for payment of € 9.00 on postal account no. 9001;
3. Receipt for payment of € 16.00 on postal account no. 4028;
4. Title of car ("certificato di proprietà"), showing that the previous plates were "cancelled for export";
5. Authorization to export the vehicle, filled in and signed by the seller;
6. Copy of the ID document of the seller;
7. Application for issuing temporary license plates, filled in and signed by the foreign buyer/driver;
8. Copy of the ID document of the buyer/driver;
9. Copy of the vehicle logbook ("carta di circolazione") showing the car's current roadworthiness inspection is still valid.
Process goes as follows:
1. Get insurance from your local insurance agency (they should be able to insure the car by tech specs + VIN) - green card. You DON'T have to get an Italian insurance
1a. Important: print out in clear big font your full name, home address, ID document number and car details (later you'll see why).
2. Go to Italy, check the car
3. Go with the seller to the bank (seller should make an appointment at his bank beforehand) and make the payment there. As a result you should have a receipt from the bank, that you've made a payment to the seller for a car and indicate the car specs there. Also you sign the sales contract in the bank (you can draw a contract together with the seller, just use common sense). You'll need to witnesses to seal the deal.
4. Together with seller go to nearest main office of auto agenzia. Things you take in:
- yourself and seller with ID documents
- both car licence plates
- bill of sale and sales contract
- car's "carta di circolazione" and "certificato di proprieta".
Car is deregistered from seller and taken off Italian roads (licence plates are taken) and registered for export under your name.
Things you leave the agency with:
- one cardboard temporary car licence plate (check that number matches to the one indicated in owner change form)
- car's updated "carta di circolazione" and "certificato di proprieta"
- owner change form (tt 2119)
- receipt for paying the agency services
5. That's it. Attach the licence plate at the rear window inside (since it's not waterproof) and given that you've got the green card, you should be good to go.
Unfortunately I've just been informed by the Agenzie Auto that it is now very hard to get the Radiazione per Esporto, i.e the Export licence as the Italian Govenrment now demands proof that the car is already abroad before granting it. This also means it is basically impossible to get the temporary export plates. It has apparently been implemented because I think people were pretending to have exported cars in order not to avoid one of the taxes.
I have however also been told that the Agenzie simply don't like doing it but that they are obliged to so I will try again when I get there this afternoon. In any case it seems to me that I have 3 options open to me:
1. Try and push through with the official process and the export plates despite the reluctance of the Agenzie. Ive downloaded all the cumbersome forms. I am however also worried on time frames, If I buy a car on Friday will the paperwork be ready by Wednesday morning when I need to leave?
2. Depending on the seller try and convince them to leave the plates with me till i register the car in the UK. Might just be doable since my dad lives locally.. but I still needs me to do a passaggio di proprieta in my name.. and not sure this is possible.
3. Get my dad to buy it as an Italian, then drive it up to the UK, register it here in his name (he is also registered at my house as has a bank account here in the UK), then send the plates back, get it deregistered in Italy and then finally put it in my name.
I'll keep you all updated.
Looks like i found a good clean car.. Picking up tomorrow at 3pm. In terms of the process it seems that I might be able to buy it myself directly as it turns out I am still registered at an address in Italy despite my UK passport and Bekg resident in the UK. This makes things much easier.
Car is Ivory (beige!!) but I like it. It has been restored but fairly well by the look of it. Lots of new parts. Gearbox is a bit vague and crunches into 2 and third when downshifting unless double de clutching and blipping throttle on the way down..but most of them do. The linkage might have also be a worn. Great fun to drive and slower than a bicycle though.
I will post some pics once I have the car.. And a full story on my adventure driving it back. It looks as if Pistonheads won't allow me to out links to the video I will do (don't ask - commercial and advertising related rules) so you'll have to make do with pics!
Pics tomorrow evening!
Car is Ivory (beige!!) but I like it. It has been restored but fairly well by the look of it. Lots of new parts. Gearbox is a bit vague and crunches into 2 and third when downshifting unless double de clutching and blipping throttle on the way down..but most of them do. The linkage might have also be a worn. Great fun to drive and slower than a bicycle though.
I will post some pics once I have the car.. And a full story on my adventure driving it back. It looks as if Pistonheads won't allow me to out links to the video I will do (don't ask - commercial and advertising related rules) so you'll have to make do with pics!
Pics tomorrow evening!
Guys,
Meet Sofia. Named after the seller's daughter. Richard (a mate) has a 500 and knows them well. He told me a few things to look out for. Mainly don't be blinded by a shiny one and absolutely avoid one that looks like it was crashed.
Sofia looks pretty shiny and I think there's some evidence of a crash repair up front. So it's good job I spoke to an expert before I bought the car. Also it's Ivory, so basically beige. But to me it looks good. So I keep telling myself. The gearbox is also dreadful, much worse than the others I tried. Double declutch with a blip of throttle is the only way to stop crunching into second and third and even then it still clunks quite unhappily. Good project for Richard when I get back.
More info will of course follow in due course. Couple of pics for now attached.
Meet Sofia. Named after the seller's daughter. Richard (a mate) has a 500 and knows them well. He told me a few things to look out for. Mainly don't be blinded by a shiny one and absolutely avoid one that looks like it was crashed.
Sofia looks pretty shiny and I think there's some evidence of a crash repair up front. So it's good job I spoke to an expert before I bought the car. Also it's Ivory, so basically beige. But to me it looks good. So I keep telling myself. The gearbox is also dreadful, much worse than the others I tried. Double declutch with a blip of throttle is the only way to stop crunching into second and third and even then it still clunks quite unhappily. Good project for Richard when I get back.
More info will of course follow in due course. Couple of pics for now attached.
k-ink said:
Sounds like a load of over complicated BS. Turn up with a wad of cash. Get a receipt. Drive to the EuroTunnel. It can't be harder than that. FFS the world has gone mad.
ps
Many of these don't have synchromesh gearboxes. That'll be why it is crunching.
None of them have synchro so they all tend to dops
Many of these don't have synchromesh gearboxes. That'll be why it is crunching.
It if you rush a change or on downchanges bit this one is worse than others I have driven..
And yes, way more complicated than it needs to be
battered said:
Not at all. Just not "absence of procedure". We have been complaining long enough about foreign EU nationals bringing cars here and driving them untaxed past speed cameras, can't have it all ways.
That's not what is being said here.. A foreign national can still drive their foreign registered car in the UK, untaxed and past speed cameras. But a UK national cannot drive a foreign registered car and that is simply stupid. As longn as it is insured and taxed there is absolutely no reason a UK citizen should not be allowed to drive a foreign registered car in the UK. In any case I have dual nationality so one way or another I'll be driving it to the UK. My plan is to end up past Big Ben if it all works out.. For the finale.jet_noise said:
Good job you talked to an expert before buying. Well written funny 
You've not been reading the heart over head thread have you?
Trailer it, please. Do you really want to be jousting with 42 tonners for 24hrs of driving in something with the performance of Eddie the Eagle and road presence of a gnat?
You do, don't you. Keep posting and good luck
regards,
Jet
You've not been reading the heart over head thread have you?
Trailer it, please. Do you really want to be jousting with 42 tonners for 24hrs of driving in something with the performance of Eddie the Eagle and road presence of a gnat?
You do, don't you. Keep posting and good luck
regards,
Jet
Cheers! I won't be doing it in 24 hours, also as it will be filmed. It will be done over 3-4 days.. And I'll be avoiding motorways at all costs
Took her for a drive tonight.. goes really well. Distributor cap was worn, the contacts inside were quite scored. I think it's because the springs were not clamping it down snugly enough so it had some movement. Bent them back a bit and now the new one is secure. Took it for drive, goes really well but heel and toeing seems essential for downshifts.. and the pedals make it very difficult. Any way of adjusting the throttle pedal so it sits higher?
Tomorrow an oil change and a bit more fettling.
Couple of pics from the drive
Tomorrow an oil change and a bit more fettling.
Couple of pics from the drive
Thanks for all your comments guys! A hammer is indeed something i forgot!!
Day one done!
So roughly 460kms. Took me 10 hours on all with only 10 mins for lunch, stopping for video and pics. It would have been about 8 hours I reckon but I hit terrible queues and traffic in Nice which cost me about 1-2 hours. Nightmare.
The Rue De Napoleon was amazing as always and I really enjoyed hustling Sofia round.. Surprisingly grippy round the bends! All went well apart from a little tantrum in Monaco where she refused to start for ten mins. I checked a few connections and then she went... Hopefully that's all it was.
It's actually pretty comfortable and good on non motorway roads.. The only thing is the lack of power is really telling on any incline where she struggles a bit. Got to
Montferrat today. A couple of pics..
Day one done!
So roughly 460kms. Took me 10 hours on all with only 10 mins for lunch, stopping for video and pics. It would have been about 8 hours I reckon but I hit terrible queues and traffic in Nice which cost me about 1-2 hours. Nightmare.
The Rue De Napoleon was amazing as always and I really enjoyed hustling Sofia round.. Surprisingly grippy round the bends! All went well apart from a little tantrum in Monaco where she refused to start for ten mins. I checked a few connections and then she went... Hopefully that's all it was.
It's actually pretty comfortable and good on non motorway roads.. The only thing is the lack of power is really telling on any incline where she struggles a bit. Got to
Montferrat today. A couple of pics..
Motorways are being avoided.. Only did a very short piece near nice so far and don't intend to do any more!
Another good day on the whole..
She refused to start in the morning. I checked all connections again and changed the points just in case.. Then she started right up!
Also borrowed a hydraulic jack and adjusted the clutch but it's made no difference to the iffy gears. To me it definitely feels as if it is not disengaging fully..
Did 565 kms today which was a bit of a slog. Left at 9am and arrived at Chateau Thierry, between Paris and Reims at 7pm..
Continuous driving. Stopped off in Chablis for the pic with the turrets but no time for the local tipple!
Another good day on the whole..
She refused to start in the morning. I checked all connections again and changed the points just in case.. Then she started right up!
Also borrowed a hydraulic jack and adjusted the clutch but it's made no difference to the iffy gears. To me it definitely feels as if it is not disengaging fully..
Did 565 kms today which was a bit of a slog. Left at 9am and arrived at Chateau Thierry, between Paris and Reims at 7pm..
Continuous driving. Stopped off in Chablis for the pic with the turrets but no time for the local tipple!
jet_noise said:
Lusso, what luxury items came standard with this trim level?
Is it as extensive as, IIRC, a Cortina (mk1) Super which added, drum roll...
...a cigarette lighter
regards,
Jet
Much more extensive.. Vinyl upholstery, chrome over riders, carpets, different dash (not as nice actually!), reclining seat backs .. Maybe moreIs it as extensive as, IIRC, a Cortina (mk1) Super which added, drum roll...
...a cigarette lighter
regards,
Jet
The cheap versions had cloth seats! And a much nicer dash..
Day 3 was great! Adjusted the clutch some more and now double de-clutching and blipping the throttle brings smooth downchanges. Sorted an annoying rattle from the air filter in the engine bay, the Spring clips have lost their tension and were rattling around making an awful racket. Sounds much smoother now.
Also got stopped by the police for ... Speeding!! In a cinquecento. (First pic) Obviously it was through a village, I don't actually think I was speeding or if so by a tiny amount. They had no speed detectors or anything and in the end let me off (no proof? Not sure how it works here) but not before dragging me to the station which was just metres away, and checking all my documentation. Did not have the balls to try and film or get pics of them so best I could do was a pic of car outside the station.
It was a relatively short 280km drive so I booked in to a nice hotel this time (others were cheap knowing I was literally just sleeping there). The last pic shows Sofia resting at the nice Chateau we're at!
Day 3 was great! Adjusted the clutch some more and now double de-clutching and blipping the throttle brings smooth downchanges. Sorted an annoying rattle from the air filter in the engine bay, the Spring clips have lost their tension and were rattling around making an awful racket. Sounds much smoother now.
Also got stopped by the police for ... Speeding!! In a cinquecento. (First pic) Obviously it was through a village, I don't actually think I was speeding or if so by a tiny amount. They had no speed detectors or anything and in the end let me off (no proof? Not sure how it works here) but not before dragging me to the station which was just metres away, and checking all my documentation. Did not have the balls to try and film or get pics of them so best I could do was a pic of car outside the station.
It was a relatively short 280km drive so I booked in to a nice hotel this time (others were cheap knowing I was literally just sleeping there). The last pic shows Sofia resting at the nice Chateau we're at!
I got home today. Sofia refused to start when the ferry arrived and had to suffer the indignity of being pushed off..😄 It was a minor thing, the oil dip stick was touching the condensator and earthing it so car was not starting! That was probably the problem all along. Swung by Big Ben and got some video.. Unfortunately it seems two of my three cameras malfunctioned so not sure I'll be able to put together a video worth watching. Gutted. I was relying on that so only pics today are of car on Ferry😢. At least we got here and I do love the car!
I want to fit a 126 engine and gearbox.. Anyone know of one going?
I want to fit a 126 engine and gearbox.. Anyone know of one going?
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