Old school handling - how to achieve

[MKnight702]

This may be a bit of a rambling post, we shall see.

I had a Westfield XI that I took on a track occasionally. The handling was perfect so far as I was concerned, at lower speeds, the front end went exactly where I pointed it and the rear could be steered on the throttle almost instinctively. If I pushed it a bit further then I could four wheel drift round a bend, again steering with the throttle. The car was not the fastest round a track with only 100bhp from its 1275 A series engine but it was by far and away the most fun to drive. As indeed EVO found out in 2006(?) when they included it in the ETDCOTY and it placed very well, the fact that out of all the cars available it did the most track miles seemed to suggest that ultimate speed is not everything.

I currently own an Ultima and I am not getting as much enjoyment from the car so I have put it up for sale. Once the car sells I intend to replace it with something else, perhaps a Caterham or Westfield, I'm not really interested in chasing big BHP pub bragging figures but I really want to get that old school handling feeling back, so I wondered if the newer Caterham or Westfield could be built to have the same handling as the XI. It may be that the majority of the experience is down to the correct (or incorrect, depending on your viewpoint) selection of tyre. The XI was running narrow Avon CR322 tyres that had not massive levels of grip compared to the modern trackday tyre that will grip like glue right up to the point it doesn't. So if I built a Caterfield with say 130 bhp but then fitted narrower, harder tyres would this do the trick?? Anyone tried it?

The obvious solution would be to build another XI, but I have been there and done that so I wondered if another option was available.

[MKnight702]

Truckosaurus said:

A Caterham with the smallest engine and narrowest tyres does seem to be the easiest answer to the question.

Perhaps it would be worth renting a Caterham for a Trackday and seeing how you get on.

The new Caterham 160 looks interesting but the gearbox is supposed to be rubbish

[MKnight702]

cptsideways said:

The 1.5L Mx-5 MK4 is the answer (Not the 2.0L) its the nearest modern to an old Caterham in the way they handle, the Caterham 160 harks back to this too funnily enough. The MX-5 has a lovely ride & very compliant easy to push around & a very sweet low'ish power engine.

I know that MX5 is the default PH answer, but no. About 50% too heavy for me, power may be low but hauling round all that extra weight is just not going to cut it for me.

[MKnight702]

There is a retro mutant Caterham for sale that I quite like the look of!

The Morgan I like the look of but some of the videos show the handling to be somewhat scary on the limit, think almost tipping over scary.

[MKnight702]

One other thing that I thought of, my XI was fitted with wire wheels. Having seen some pictures of my car on the track these wheels seem to flex a surprising amount, presumably this will also have had an effect. What difference would I notice with alloy wheels, is this something anyone else has had experience of?

[MKnight702]

Equus said:

Compared to the amount of deflection on a tyre carcase, the effect is quite small, though.

Judging by the photos I would argue that wheel deflection was anything but small! I will try to dig one out and upload it.

[MKnight702]

RBH58 said:

Skinny crossplys, drum brakes, 5 turns lock-to-lock unassisted steering. The good old days were rubbish except for styling.

Have you ever driven an old school car? There is much more to driving pleasure than going fast.

[MKnight702]

Thread resurrection time.

I have been doing more reading and it appears that the modern Caterham handling is nothing like the old Lotus Seven handling (which apparently handles like a Westfield XI), would an old Elan handle like an old Lotus Seven, I know everyone raves about the Elan handling?