Sports Saloons - Italians leaving the Germans dead.

[Ares]

Time to replace my 640d. Probably the best non-2 seater I’ve had (especially post Schnitzer modifications ), but with mileage going down and space requirement reducing, I’m targeting something sportier, but still with 4 doors.

Narrowed to M3 Comp, C63s, Maserati Ghibli S and Alfa Quadrifoglio.

6 weeks ago, I contact all four local dealers directly and asked for details via websites.

Alfa came back within 20 mins, and 7 days later I had 2 hours in the Quadrifoglio.

Maserati took a bit longer, 3 days and a chasing call, but a week later and I was given a Ghibli S for 2 days.

BMW were st. 4 dealers, several approaches through website and 3 walk-ins later, and over 3 weeks wasted, I dropped an email to a UK Board contact, the result being a weekend in an M3 Competition.

Merc were even worse. Non-functioning website, 7 phone calls, 11 emails, walking into 5 different dealers and an email to the UK MD got no interest, no ability to help and the only contact being a) a sales guy trying to sell me GAP insurance, and b) Customer Services who were looking into the website glitch, but never came back. Eventually, I got offered a test drive (thanks to social media).


It’s not Brexit threatening the car market….it’s dealer apathy!


Anyway…the cars:

Alfa. Amazing. The comments of it being a 4-door Ferrari are very close. Goes, grips, drives, sounds fantastic. Very pretty and very different. 510bhp and a rev hungry engine. Great Jekyll & Hyde ability - drives like a average car when you want it….turns into a sports car when you want it. Interior ‘OK’, but once on the move, who cares….

Maserati. Surprised. Bigger car, class above but ‘only’ 410bhp. Doesn’t feel slow, best sound of them all (in sport/valves open) and a class act. Dynamics only show themselves when pressing on a bit, and takes a bit to get used to. Seat too high. More mature, but a real emotive choice. Also very expensive compared to the others (business lease)

BMW. Coming from a succession of 7 BMWs, this was the one I thought was the obvious choice….but it’s probably sitting in last place. Far better than the non-Competition M3 and very nicely put together, best gearbox no surprise. But almost too solid, too capable, a very heavy driving experience. Good feel but a world behind the Alfa. Punchy engine, but lacks character - just ‘noise’ until high revs. Crazy high limits of grip and traction, but leaves anything under 8/10th feeling very ordinary. Push on to 9/10th and it comes alive and is a very very fast and capable car - but 9/10ths is well beyond common sense on UK roads.

Mercedes….well, I was due to borrow one for 2 days on Tuesday, but the dealer forgot to get the car there, so collecting tomorrow for the weekend. Took a quick drive in a normal c63 for 20mins, and it presently surprised. Steering was good, not Alfa-level. Engine is a beauty, and makes for a easy but character-filled drive. …..will know how strong a contender it is after the weekend. Plenty of A/B road plans ready

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hondansx said:

Saw my first Alfa on the move today. Looks great, sounds great, and different.

Anyone brave enough not to get a red one?

I've got my eye on the dark grey. OK on screen, lovely and understated in the flesh!

[Ares]

Adz The Rat said:

That Alfa looks fantastic.

Ghibli wouldnt get a second glance from me.

M4 looks great but becoming a bit common.

C63 would be a tough choice between that and the Alfa.

Thats where I'm at. Just picked up the C63 for the weekend.

Oh, and don't discount the Ghibli. The S is a lovely car.

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EddyBee said:

It'd be a hard call between the Alfa and the Merc for me and I'm a huge BMW fan.

Nice situation to be in mind!
Not fancy seeing how a Jag compares?

Which Jag though? There aren't any decent saloons with a smoking engine.

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Centurion07 said:

Maybe it's just me but there is no way on earth I'd consider giving Merc my money if I'd been treated like the OP.

Perhaps, maybe cutting nose of to spite face though? Only Alfa have been truly good.

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dme123 said:

Jimmy Recard said:

Zod said:

Watch this first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOZnqnB6xDo

I saw that the other day. Is it pretty much just me who didn't care about all the problems he found with it? He struck me as an idiot. No interest in the car, he seemed interested only in things like radar cruise control, that I've never used anyway in cars that have it.

And the panel gap that was simply the shape of the door card, not a build problem at all. I'm pretty sure he said it was great to drive though. I'm more interested in that than non-HD reversing cameras

While the chap was very irritating and mostly focused on st that only teenagers can possibly care about he did highlight that the car is a bit of a parts bin special competing in a field of highly competent and well developed cars; indeed the entire platform is shared with a Chrysler. It drives well, but no better than a BMW 550i, so the only reason to buy one is because of the badge, the sound, or the looks.

That was certainly my conclusion after trying one too. Interesting that they are discounting them by 20% in the US too, ALD Automotive were leasing these for next to nothing in the UK at one stage last year. I was tempted though, entirely because of the looks, the badge, and the noise.

Personally I can't get with the idea of a Maserati that is full of highly conspicuous Chrysler bits and sold with a diesel engine. Platform and part sharing is just fine in ordinary cars, but for a car this expensive and sold under a name like Maserati I think you can expect better.

Edited by dme123 on Friday 21st April 11:48

It was perhaps an older Ghibli you drove? This had nothing that looked parts bin about it, and the interior was the class of the field. Also had a 410bhp V6, not a diesel too

[Ares]

EddyBee said:

Ares said:

EddyBee said:

It'd be a hard call between the Alfa and the Merc for me and I'm a huge BMW fan.

Nice situation to be in mind!
Not fancy seeing how a Jag compares?

Which Jag though? There aren't any decent saloons with a smoking engine.

XE S? Only heard good things about the engine.
Ok power wise you could only really compare it to the lower powered Ghibli but surely worth exploring?

I certainly would. Ok, on paper it's not quite up there with the others but cars aren't all about performance figures.
It's still range topping forced induction fast saloon like the others.

For all I know it could be pants but I'd want to see for myself how it compares.

Edited by EddyBee on Friday 21st April 16:35

I've driven one, although not in comparison with these. It's a world behind these cars! The XE S is a 340i competitor, and left wanting by the 340i IMO.

[Ares]

rayyan171 said:

Personally I'd be very happy with a used M5 as it performs much better than them all and will still be in warranty period at this price.

You can get a new M5 at this price at the moment....but it's an old car now, and loses the raw thrill of the smaller offerings.

[Ares]

RikJonAtk said:

Surprised no XFR in your list?

Of those listed though, probably the Maser for the rarity factor.

Doesn't exist anymore!

[Ares]

Zod said:

stewy68 said:

Zod said:

Watch this first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOZnqnB6xDo

If ever the term 'c**k s****t' was invented for an individual, Mr DeMuro is that person...

but the Ghibli interior is st, isn't it?

No - it's lovely. Especially with the leather interior/dash. Class above.

[Ares]

fivepointnine said:

Zod said:

but the Ghibli interior is st, isn't it?

Not sat in one YET, but from all the pictures, the interior looks like a nice place to be! I will also be looking at the Alfa (although in the Veloce guise), but am concerned it might be a bit small for my family.

Broadly same size as a 3-series/C-Class etc. Rear seats don't fold down though, minor issue.

Ghibli is bigger - I'd say half way between 3/C-class and 5/E-Class

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warcalf said:

I bet Porsche would have been better than them all in everyway...

Except it's easily a class bigger and around £30k more expensive

[Ares]

I've now had the C63s for a weekend. It's actually a far better car than I expected, I'd certainly pick it over the M3.

Best steering feel I've felt in a Merc for, well, ever I think. Well built, well kitted out and fun drive. Great Jekyll & Hyde personality, which for me is important, and that engine!!

Also good value despite being £70k....doesn't stoke the passion of the Italians though.

Bar any sudden surprises, the Alfa will be ordered this week. Vesuvio Grey with normal Quadrifoglio Wheels

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DonkeyApple said:

It's the stylish touches like a central pod that resembles the opening of a giant clam with all the expectation of finding a valuable pearl but instead finding an early 80s Alba TV that Macro used to sell.



And then the binnacle which clearly pays homage to late 80s Hollywood star Robot Johnny 5. The mournful gaze into the driver's eyes being reminiscent of Grace Kelly.



Of course, it is well known that European royalty all have clocks that are shaped like vaginas.

And who could resist a gear knob that pays homage to the countless Uber drivers and their Prius chariots.

It does s very clearly a 'class above'. The only question that remains is: what?

Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 26th April 12:58

Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 26th April 12:59

In defence of the Ghibli, the pictures don't do it justice. Build quality and materials are a league ahead of the germans and Screen/Infotainment etc revised for 2017, and whilst it's not quite BMW, its easily a match for Merc/Audi and a even more easily ahead of the JLR offerings.

Leather stitched gear knob is likewise a lot better (and much much better than the column stick shift on the AMG).....but when you have column mounted paddles, who's using the gearknob

[Ares]

Ali_T said:

Ares said:

Broadly same size as a 3-series/C-Class etc. Rear seats don't fold down though, minor issue.

Ghibli is bigger - I'd say half way between 3/C-class and 5/E-Class

And the Giulia Quadrifoglio only has 4 seats. No middle rear bench seat belt in the UK. Suits me but not for everyone.

Yeah, minor PIA (and strange as US model does have one?), but with only one child it's pretty much a non-issue....and saves me having have the In-Laws in the car with us. Win/Win.

[Ares]

Ordered yesterday.

Like a child with a promised trip to a sweet shop. Just got a 9-12 week wait :-(


Anyone know anything about the Celtic Tuning Exhaust Valve bypass? Give Dynamic the Race setting exhaust valve opening? Thanks!