Used car market is dead...?
Discussion
I often buy and sell performance cars every few months, I'm not a trader just a petrolhead who loves trying all the cars I can!!!
Typically I buy / sell excellent water tight examples, for very keen prices. I don't use the trade otherwise such short ownership would cost too much if factoring dealer spread etc. Typical pricing of the cars I buy are anywhere for £40k upwards.
I've noticed over the last 3 months that it is becoming far harder to even get interest in a car that is very aggressively priced and in superb condition. Also have seen the same other cars that look interesting to buy, constantly advertised for months and months but not selling.
It definitely feels like an economic slowdown and reminds me of my experience during the credit crunch - PCP deals might be keeping new car buying market afloat but I just don't think people have the money now (or maybe willing to spend that money) on the used car market that they once had. Not sure if brexit concerns are playing into this.l
I also suspect the used market has left a lot of traders with cars that now with hindsight have been overpaid for, but traders are unwilling to follow the market pricing down and hence no sales...
Is anyone else experiencing the same?
Typically I buy / sell excellent water tight examples, for very keen prices. I don't use the trade otherwise such short ownership would cost too much if factoring dealer spread etc. Typical pricing of the cars I buy are anywhere for £40k upwards.
I've noticed over the last 3 months that it is becoming far harder to even get interest in a car that is very aggressively priced and in superb condition. Also have seen the same other cars that look interesting to buy, constantly advertised for months and months but not selling.
It definitely feels like an economic slowdown and reminds me of my experience during the credit crunch - PCP deals might be keeping new car buying market afloat but I just don't think people have the money now (or maybe willing to spend that money) on the used car market that they once had. Not sure if brexit concerns are playing into this.l
I also suspect the used market has left a lot of traders with cars that now with hindsight have been overpaid for, but traders are unwilling to follow the market pricing down and hence no sales...
Is anyone else experiencing the same?
Edited by BigLion on Friday 5th May 10:36
Well I've got an independent garage trying to sell me a £60k car and despite it being priced very high relative to the more established traders he told me that they won't sort the following MOT advisories, as all MOT testers pick up things 
Nearside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Offside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Nearside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
He was then shocked when I said I'd go elsewhere - seems there are clowns everywhere!
Nearside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Offside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Nearside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
He was then shocked when I said I'd go elsewhere - seems there are clowns everywhere!
OddCat said:
BigLion said:
Well I've got an independent garage trying to sell me a £60k car and despite it being priced very high relative to the more established traders he told me that they won't sort the following MOT advisories, as all MOT testers pick up things
Nearside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Offside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Nearside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
He was then shocked when I said I'd go elsewhere - seems there are clowns everywhere!
Am trying to think what sort of car could be so old it has perished tyres but still be worth £60k. And where the dealer is so confident he can sell it despite the issues. Am guessing something like a Ferrari 348 ?Nearside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Offside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit perished and slightly cracked in tread (4.1.E.1)
Nearside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear Inner handbrake pads worn
Offside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
He was then shocked when I said I'd go elsewhere - seems there are clowns everywhere!
Edited by OddCat on Monday 8th May 19:41
fivepointnine said:
I personally will not touch a used car from a trader, my reasoning below:
99.9% the MOT is not worth the paper it was printed out on ("pencil whipped" MOT's)
The "warranties" are not worth the paper they are written on
The traders know absolutely nothing about the cars, half the time on the forecourt the tyres are flat, headlamps burned out, batteries are flat.
The traders put the cheapest of the cheap tyres on their cars.
I do not know how many cars I have looked at from traders that had EML's illuminated, including a £9k Porsche Cayenne!
Personally I would only buy private or from an Indy that has a stellar reputation - I deviated from this on the car I was looking at and saw what some of these other traders are up to. Not all are bad, but finding a good one is bloody difficult !99.9% the MOT is not worth the paper it was printed out on ("pencil whipped" MOT's)
The "warranties" are not worth the paper they are written on
The traders know absolutely nothing about the cars, half the time on the forecourt the tyres are flat, headlamps burned out, batteries are flat.
The traders put the cheapest of the cheap tyres on their cars.
I do not know how many cars I have looked at from traders that had EML's illuminated, including a £9k Porsche Cayenne!
OddCat said:
I'm going to pay less for a dozen eggs from my local farm than I am for what would essentially be the same eggs from Sainsbury's.
This is because Sainsbury's have to charge MORE to cover their overheads etc and to make a profit.
It is exactly the same with cars. If anything, the dealers are ending up having to ask to much. But it creates an inevitable economic differential between retail prices and trade / private prices.
Dealer: asks £30,000 and sells for £29,500. Deduct premises costs £750, less salesman salary / commission £1,000, less tax £1,000 equals £26,750. This is breakeven. If he is to make a £2,000 profit (otherwise why is he doing it ?) the 'stock' cost is therefore £24,750.
Private seller asks £25,000 for the same car and sells for £24,750 (no premises, no salesman salary, no tax, no requirement for profit).
It's the same thing. What private seller does not do is look at the £30k dealer retail and thing "mines as good as that so I'll ask £29,500". It simply doesn't work like that.
I think you're confusing yourself with one of the most illogical arguments I've read in a while !This is because Sainsbury's have to charge MORE to cover their overheads etc and to make a profit.
It is exactly the same with cars. If anything, the dealers are ending up having to ask to much. But it creates an inevitable economic differential between retail prices and trade / private prices.
Dealer: asks £30,000 and sells for £29,500. Deduct premises costs £750, less salesman salary / commission £1,000, less tax £1,000 equals £26,750. This is breakeven. If he is to make a £2,000 profit (otherwise why is he doing it ?) the 'stock' cost is therefore £24,750.
Private seller asks £25,000 for the same car and sells for £24,750 (no premises, no salesman salary, no tax, no requirement for profit).
It's the same thing. What private seller does not do is look at the £30k dealer retail and thing "mines as good as that so I'll ask £29,500". It simply doesn't work like that.
Dealer selling car for £30k.
Private seller with equivalent car, with manufactuer warranty, would be selling around £26-27k.
What profit a dealer makes is nothing to do with the car buyers choice.
Well I think I'm going to keep my car - I honestly don't have the energy to deal with muppets
I've phoned a so called respected (very large) Indy this morning, then lunchtime and just now...trying to get a deal on a 70k car and they are making hard work of it...how long does it take to work out a change over cost?
Honestly it's like I'm doing them a favour buying it!
I'm not going to call back again...I have little patience.
I've phoned a so called respected (very large) Indy this morning, then lunchtime and just now...trying to get a deal on a 70k car and they are making hard work of it...how long does it take to work out a change over cost?
Honestly it's like I'm doing them a favour buying it!
I'm not going to call back again...I have little patience.
jakesmith said:
S2WYA said:
There doesn't seem to be much movement in the £40k market at the moment. I have cash waiting so have been looking at private and trade for a nice R8 or V8 Vantage and nothing new has come up for some time now, the dealers are slowly reducing prices on old cars to what looks to be to no avail.
I am quite specific on colour so haven't been monitoring everything but there doesn't look to be much new coming to market.
Isn't that a bit below what you need to pay for a nice R8. Certainly when I looked a few times it was more like £45-£50k for a low milage, properly maintained one with mag and B&O. The £40k ones were wrapped, 7 owners, 'V10 conversions cat C' etcI am quite specific on colour so haven't been monitoring everything but there doesn't look to be much new coming to market.
Edited by S2WYA on Friday 5th May 22:06
Have always wanted one but it's a lot of dosh over the £35k I spent on a loaded C4S 5 years ago, or the Masser GT last year for £29k
daemon said:
I had found a great, cheapie mechanic who had a load of high end "Snap On" type code reader kit, and other kit, so i was quite happy to bring my older cars to him. More recently though his kit couldnt read the fault codes on my Volvo S40 T5 necessitating it being off the road until a not-so-local Volvo specialist could slot it in, then i was paying him "specialist" hourly rates, charged for plugging in the code reader, etc. I heard also the same cheapie mechanic cant get the code read on my brothers Merc so hes looking for a specialist too.
Its part of the reason why i've thought "sod it" and opted for a 2016 car to run alongside the A45 - i just have no confidence that i can get faults fixed on older cars without having to seek out specialists (who are invariably a camel ride from where i live and charge accordingly)
I've two years manufacturers warranty on the passat and i'll probably extend it.
Whilst not as "prestige" as running say a 2012 Merc E or something like that, i know i wont have to foot any expensive bills or have it off the road for disproportionate timescales.
Daemon, based on your knowledge of the trade, what do you reckon an Audi v10 r8 Manual that is selling privately at 60k today would be worth in 3 years time (appreciate its a guess!)?Its part of the reason why i've thought "sod it" and opted for a 2016 car to run alongside the A45 - i just have no confidence that i can get faults fixed on older cars without having to seek out specialists (who are invariably a camel ride from where i live and charge accordingly)
I've two years manufacturers warranty on the passat and i'll probably extend it.
Whilst not as "prestige" as running say a 2012 Merc E or something like that, i know i wont have to foot any expensive bills or have it off the road for disproportionate timescales.
Back in the day, small garages would give you a better part ex price on your car than the main dealers as they would often sell your car back on their forecourt.
However now it seems no matter where you go everyone will only pay at book value - is that smaller traders getting greedy on trying to make profit on both the car sold and the car they are taking in part ex?
I'm talking about mint part ex's with manufacturer warranty still outstanding (based on my experience) - so shouldn't be any prep or future costs?
Also I have heard plenty of dealers on here moan that the public are giving their cars to WBAC, maybe they need to think about how aggressively they price to get stock too...
However now it seems no matter where you go everyone will only pay at book value - is that smaller traders getting greedy on trying to make profit on both the car sold and the car they are taking in part ex?
I'm talking about mint part ex's with manufacturer warranty still outstanding (based on my experience) - so shouldn't be any prep or future costs?
Also I have heard plenty of dealers on here moan that the public are giving their cars to WBAC, maybe they need to think about how aggressively they price to get stock too...
One small Indy I visited yesterday had a 47k v8 r8 - the tyres were flagged on the mot which I mentioned, at which point he proudly told me he has put a pair of 'new' part worns on the front !!!
Itput me right off - I'm not expecting everything to be new, but part worns ffs - what else has he done to the car at a budget?
Little things can knock confidence - why f
k around, just put some brand new tyres on.
Itput me right off - I'm not expecting everything to be new, but part worns ffs - what else has he done to the car at a budget?
Little things can knock confidence - why f
k around, just put some brand new tyres on.I wouldn't base my car purchasing life around whether there is going to be a collapse or not - too many smiles per mile in the interim could be missed based on an event that may never happen!
But I think I have decided I am never going to sell any of my cars again, I will build a small collection of 2-3 cars instead
But I think I have decided I am never going to sell any of my cars again, I will build a small collection of 2-3 cars instead
JimmyConwayNW said:
BigLion said:
One small Indy I visited yesterday had a 47k v8 r8 - the tyres were flagged on the mot which I mentioned, at which point he proudly told me he has put a pair of 'new' part worns on the front !!!
Itput me right off - I'm not expecting everything to be new, but part worns ffs - what else has he done to the car at a budget?
Little things can knock confidence - why fk around, just put some brand new tyres on.
Well to be fair any tyres on a second hand car are likely to be part worn. Everything on the car is part worn FFS.Itput me right off - I'm not expecting everything to be new, but part worns ffs - what else has he done to the car at a budget?
Little things can knock confidence - why f
k around, just put some brand new tyres on.Me personally selling something like that I would not put part worns on, or if I did I would have done it before the MOT as I try to prep most of our stuff so it all passes first time.
If the rest of it is right a set of 4 good premium tyres for the car will see you getting the most out of it. There will always be some form of compromise on a used car IMO.
Edited by JimmyConwayNW on Monday 15th May 10:28
Shambolic activity to be honest.
If he put the price up £600 and stuck new tyres on he would have got a sale, but now I'm thinking what else has he fudged...egg in the radiator!?
Compare that to rpm technik - the car I was going to buy passed its MOT with no advisories, but in the day of buying it the tech noticed the inner wall on the tyre had a slight crack - they refused to release the car until they put 2 news tyres on the front. Quality outfit.
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