Notes from the Road - Land Rover Discovery
Discussion
Such is life. Last car I reviewed here was the detestable Audi A5. Awful thing and I did wonder how long it might take for me to drive a car that I liked less. Alas! Here we are, two weeks later, and I've found it. And I wish I hadn't. I wish the New Discovery was a great car, as I have a huge fondness for JLR despite the patchy quality (a real thing - let nobody kid you). I love the way their cars drive, the steering, more often than not the ride, the brakes especially but it's just a sense of flow they have. They just groove. Even an Evoque in full Brent spec will move along the road in a way that the driver of a Q3 can only imagine. Mercedes get close but there is a final finesse to JLR's mainstream stuff that sets them apart as driver's cars. Funnily enough the F-Type is an exception, it being a lash-up and feeling like one as well. But that is a different story.
The new Disco is a dreadful thing. As a replacement for the masterful old model it is a massive, massive letdown. Be in no doubt, it's nowhere near as good as the old car. Now I know this because, as luck would have it, I delivered a new model and did the return journey in the previous gen Discovery that the delivery was a direct replacement for.
There's something about the old car. Yes, they are unreliable, yes the steering column can misbehave over large bumps, yes it's very heavy (but, then, so is the new car), yes it's not a car to drive fast (again the new model is just as bad) but there is something about it. Something intangible. It is mellow, unhectic, easy, simple. You can see all four corners of the car from the divers seat - the dimensions are vast but, crucially, they are known. The new car is very hard to fathom in this respect. It really needs it's sensors and cameras. In the old car, you get in, rest your arm on the drivers door as you do in a Defender and you cruise. It has a natural gait and speed. Keep at that and it's a very, very pleasant place to while away the miles. I found myself at a chilled 80, with the sunroof open listening to a programme about worms on Radio Four. Happy as Larry. Keep it in it's flow envelope and it's just excellent. Try to push and it will stop you.
The new car, though absolutely massive, feels much more enclosed. The sense of space (and thus of luxury) has gone. It's much more generic. It has the new Sat-Nav (which is... a bit lame truth be told), flasher plastics and materials, a flasher wheel, But it's nowhere near as nice a place to be and there's no lounging room for your left knee - a small thing but over many, many miles one that soon becomes big. You pilot the old car, this one you merely drive. Actually, scratch that, the old car sets sail - this one just sets off. It's mundane. Dull. It's objectively better in many ways of course. Quieter (though not by much), less utilitarian, the brakes are better (JLR really know how to set brakes up - would that certain other manufacturers would have a decent go at this) and it 'handles' in a far more modern way. If the handling of a two and a half ton SUV is really important to you. It shouldn't be.
You see, I'm not a big fan of the SUV in general. That's just my view. It's tired argument on these pages and one I'd like to not get caught up in but, for the avoidance of doubt, I think my negative freedom to be safe from the bloody things offsets the positive freedom people have to buy them. They are stupid. Generally just a massively inefficient type of MPV that can be built cheap and sold high. A logical black hole. But this is a free country and you can buy what you like.
There are exceptions though to my absurd prejudice though. And the last gen Disco was one. Mainly because it is so unashamedly what it is. And it's a truly nice car to do big miles in. I always found that the combination of the vast interior space with the lack of interior gloss made the car feel really luxurious in the true sense. It's a personal thing but, for me, the driving position just worked. I have various aches and pains from a misspent youth but I could do five hundred miles in a last gen Discovery and get out feeling as equally terrible as I did when I got in.
The new car loses all that. It's just a fairly competent full size SUV. And it's absolutely hideous to look at as well. I mean, it's really bad. Up close it's just worse. I don't know what kind of acid they've got hold of a JLR but they need to lay right off it. The proportions are incomprehensibly wrong. How can something be simultaneously too long and too short? Too wide and yet too narrow? I suppose its something of an achievement in and of itself to make such a colossal pigs ear of something. It's terrible.
Ultimately, if you want a humdrum big SUV with not much character that will be too big to park easily and will break down all the time then you are much better off with an XC90. It's on a different planet in terms of usability and technology. JLR have made a fatal mistake here - the old car did not directly compete. It had it's own space in the market. They have thrown that away. I know people who have had three of the old model in a row - they put up with the unreliability (though JLR do seem to make the odd totally faultless car, for reasons best known to themselves) because the cars are so very good in usability terms and so painless to drive. Those owners don't like the new car. It's not a Discovery.
The thing that does it for me is the stupid flap they have put in the back to make up for the lack of a split tailgate. If you saw it, you would be appalled. It's just the daftest thing imaginable. I cannot imagine what has gone on there. Sweet Jesus it's poor. It will last a month tops.
That's the thing I guess. The new car is just a car. It's not a Discovery.
The new Disco is a dreadful thing. As a replacement for the masterful old model it is a massive, massive letdown. Be in no doubt, it's nowhere near as good as the old car. Now I know this because, as luck would have it, I delivered a new model and did the return journey in the previous gen Discovery that the delivery was a direct replacement for.
There's something about the old car. Yes, they are unreliable, yes the steering column can misbehave over large bumps, yes it's very heavy (but, then, so is the new car), yes it's not a car to drive fast (again the new model is just as bad) but there is something about it. Something intangible. It is mellow, unhectic, easy, simple. You can see all four corners of the car from the divers seat - the dimensions are vast but, crucially, they are known. The new car is very hard to fathom in this respect. It really needs it's sensors and cameras. In the old car, you get in, rest your arm on the drivers door as you do in a Defender and you cruise. It has a natural gait and speed. Keep at that and it's a very, very pleasant place to while away the miles. I found myself at a chilled 80, with the sunroof open listening to a programme about worms on Radio Four. Happy as Larry. Keep it in it's flow envelope and it's just excellent. Try to push and it will stop you.
The new car, though absolutely massive, feels much more enclosed. The sense of space (and thus of luxury) has gone. It's much more generic. It has the new Sat-Nav (which is... a bit lame truth be told), flasher plastics and materials, a flasher wheel, But it's nowhere near as nice a place to be and there's no lounging room for your left knee - a small thing but over many, many miles one that soon becomes big. You pilot the old car, this one you merely drive. Actually, scratch that, the old car sets sail - this one just sets off. It's mundane. Dull. It's objectively better in many ways of course. Quieter (though not by much), less utilitarian, the brakes are better (JLR really know how to set brakes up - would that certain other manufacturers would have a decent go at this) and it 'handles' in a far more modern way. If the handling of a two and a half ton SUV is really important to you. It shouldn't be.
You see, I'm not a big fan of the SUV in general. That's just my view. It's tired argument on these pages and one I'd like to not get caught up in but, for the avoidance of doubt, I think my negative freedom to be safe from the bloody things offsets the positive freedom people have to buy them. They are stupid. Generally just a massively inefficient type of MPV that can be built cheap and sold high. A logical black hole. But this is a free country and you can buy what you like.
There are exceptions though to my absurd prejudice though. And the last gen Disco was one. Mainly because it is so unashamedly what it is. And it's a truly nice car to do big miles in. I always found that the combination of the vast interior space with the lack of interior gloss made the car feel really luxurious in the true sense. It's a personal thing but, for me, the driving position just worked. I have various aches and pains from a misspent youth but I could do five hundred miles in a last gen Discovery and get out feeling as equally terrible as I did when I got in.
The new car loses all that. It's just a fairly competent full size SUV. And it's absolutely hideous to look at as well. I mean, it's really bad. Up close it's just worse. I don't know what kind of acid they've got hold of a JLR but they need to lay right off it. The proportions are incomprehensibly wrong. How can something be simultaneously too long and too short? Too wide and yet too narrow? I suppose its something of an achievement in and of itself to make such a colossal pigs ear of something. It's terrible.
Ultimately, if you want a humdrum big SUV with not much character that will be too big to park easily and will break down all the time then you are much better off with an XC90. It's on a different planet in terms of usability and technology. JLR have made a fatal mistake here - the old car did not directly compete. It had it's own space in the market. They have thrown that away. I know people who have had three of the old model in a row - they put up with the unreliability (though JLR do seem to make the odd totally faultless car, for reasons best known to themselves) because the cars are so very good in usability terms and so painless to drive. Those owners don't like the new car. It's not a Discovery.
The thing that does it for me is the stupid flap they have put in the back to make up for the lack of a split tailgate. If you saw it, you would be appalled. It's just the daftest thing imaginable. I cannot imagine what has gone on there. Sweet Jesus it's poor. It will last a month tops.
That's the thing I guess. The new car is just a car. It's not a Discovery.
Edited by W124 on Wednesday 26th July 20:27
It's rubbish. I stand by that claim. It's nowhere near as good as an XC90 for the reasons stated. It is now just an overstyled, over heavy MPV like the rest of them.
The last car was also rubbish in some ways. But also, in its own way, peerless.
That little flap thing in the boot in the new car. Says it all.
The last car was also rubbish in some ways. But also, in its own way, peerless.
That little flap thing in the boot in the new car. Says it all.
I'm not biased against JLR in any way at all. The XF is my favourite car in that class and I like the organised simplicity and superb road manners of the Disco Sport.
But I just call them as I drive them. The new Discovery is a dud. It offers all of the disadvantages of the old car with none of the touches of genius that set it apart.
Incidently, we are just scum who deliver cars but the JLR dealers are easily the best places to sit around waiting for people. Polite, often kind beyond the call of duty and always very helpful.
Unlike some, I might add. Audi especially.
But I just call them as I drive them. The new Discovery is a dud. It offers all of the disadvantages of the old car with none of the touches of genius that set it apart.
Incidently, we are just scum who deliver cars but the JLR dealers are easily the best places to sit around waiting for people. Polite, often kind beyond the call of duty and always very helpful.
Unlike some, I might add. Audi especially.
Ceeejay said:
Reviewer doesnt like really popular car.
I think ive worked it out. You're going to be the Katie Hopkins of car reviews !.
Hopefully not! The first review I wrote here was actually pretty positive. The Seat Alhambra of all things. I think ive worked it out. You're going to be the Katie Hopkins of car reviews !.
I really disliked the Discovery. It just doesn't feel right. If that makes sense.
Jazzy Jag said:
W124 said:
But I just call them as I drive them. The new Discovery is a dud. It offers all of the disadvantages of the old car with none of the touches of genius that set it apart.
Gonna have to disagree with you on that.The advanced Tow Assist, for example if bloody good.
There are not many, if any other manufacturers that have all the practical gadgets that the Disco 5 has.
That is true. Gadgets, infotainment, tech - it's just a distraction. It's more of a luxury to have none of it in some ways. I once had a short drive of a Phantom and the feeling of luxury was heavily bolstered by the simplicity of the controls.
Whenever I drive s car with a log of beeping and flashing tech (an XC90 say) I always turn as much if it off as I can. It's just showroom stuff and, whist specialist things like Tow Assist is useful to the small number of people who tow, to the vast majority who buy the cars to drive their kids about, it's useless. Of much more general use would be making the car better, instead of worse than the last model.
Whenever I drive s car with a log of beeping and flashing tech (an XC90 say) I always turn as much if it off as I can. It's just showroom stuff and, whist specialist things like Tow Assist is useful to the small number of people who tow, to the vast majority who buy the cars to drive their kids about, it's useless. Of much more general use would be making the car better, instead of worse than the last model.
Dusty964 said:
W124 said:
shirt said:
You definitely have the talent to write cat reviews for any magazine as your write up offers lots of opinion and little insight.
Lot of tosh there about the old model and that's coming from an owner.
I don't review cats. Could do though if that would be useful. Lot of tosh there about the old model and that's coming from an owner.
te you've already posted.Jazzy Jag said:
W124 said:
But I just call them as I drive them. The new Discovery is a dud. It offers all of the disadvantages of the old car with none of the touches of genius that set it apart.
W124 said:
That is true. Gadgets, infotainment, tech - it's just a distraction. It's more of a luxury to have none of it in some ways. I once had a short drive of a Phantom and the feeling of luxury was heavily bolstered by the simplicity of the controls.
Whenever I drive s car with a log of beeping and flashing tech (an XC90 say) I always turn as much if it off as I can. It's just showroom stuff and, whist specialist things like Tow Assist is useful to the small number of people who tow, to the vast majority who buy the cars to drive their kids about, it's useless. Of much more general use would be making the car better, instead of worse than the last model.
Well make your mind up!Whenever I drive s car with a log of beeping and flashing tech (an XC90 say) I always turn as much if it off as I can. It's just showroom stuff and, whist specialist things like Tow Assist is useful to the small number of people who tow, to the vast majority who buy the cars to drive their kids about, it's useless. Of much more general use would be making the car better, instead of worse than the last model.
You slag it off for not having the "touches of genius" then say that they are only a distraction.
rayyan171 said:
They've messed up the formula.
It used to be that range rovers (e.g. first gen sport) was made off land rovers (D3). Now land rovers seem to be made off range rovers!
Back in 2003 when the very good D3 came out, Land Rover made the RRS off it by using the same chassis. They both were very good and still popular cars, yet very different to drive anyway.
We were very close to buying a D3, only bought an X5 to stick to our favoured brand and get the performance that the D3/4 simply can not offer! The D3 isn't designed to drive fast, the X5 is. And it's a good thing that they both have a different purpose.
Keep them coming OP, I'm waiting for you to offend me with a review slating a BMW!
I don't drive that many BMWs. However a couple of weeks ago I drove a battered 335d X-Drive return car about 350 miles and it was... Very good indeed actually. Having driven X5's and D3/4 Discos I would say that the Disco is a very nice car to drive slowly. That's actually pretty high praise. Few cars are. It used to be that range rovers (e.g. first gen sport) was made off land rovers (D3). Now land rovers seem to be made off range rovers!
Back in 2003 when the very good D3 came out, Land Rover made the RRS off it by using the same chassis. They both were very good and still popular cars, yet very different to drive anyway.
We were very close to buying a D3, only bought an X5 to stick to our favoured brand and get the performance that the D3/4 simply can not offer! The D3 isn't designed to drive fast, the X5 is. And it's a good thing that they both have a different purpose.
Keep them coming OP, I'm waiting for you to offend me with a review slating a BMW!
That has become their business model if the D5 is anything to go by. Fair play to them, it's what I'd do. And it's fine if the cars are still good under all the Brent - as the Range Rover, for example is. It's still brilliant.
But the D5 is not. Take the badges off and you could be in anything. It's just boring.
But the D5 is not. Take the badges off and you could be in anything. It's just boring.
Big GT said:
W124 said:
Big GT said:
Golf GTE next please.
Ironically considering swapping out D4 for one
It's an excellent car. No spare wheel is about the only downside. Ironically considering swapping out D4 for one
The problem for me is no spare wheel. I've been let down by the gunk/compressor solution too many times.
That aside - the GTE is really very good. It lacks the alacrity of the GTI but it counters by being incredibly relaxing to drive. It's not slow either.
sheepman said:
For a company that seems to do so much wrong according to the experts on here, its incredible that the factories are running full hammer to keep up with demand 
I don't follow you. Are you saying that because JLR sell loads of cars, then those cars must be good? By that argument, Justin Bieber is a stone-cold genius.
It's weird. The whole car just doesn't work. It's just not enjoyable to drive, in a way that can't really be quantified.
The old car offered a colossal dose of character and practicality. The D5 is just another big SUV which feels way behind the market - as a road based thing you'd be insane to choose on over an XC90.
The old car offered a colossal dose of character and practicality. The D5 is just another big SUV which feels way behind the market - as a road based thing you'd be insane to choose on over an XC90.
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