Ask a Service Manager anything...anything at all.

[itcaptainslow]

I thought it'd be quite nice to steal Mexman's idea and have a thread for the after sales side of the car dealership business.

The title is perhaps a little inaccurate, but there's only so many characters (have PistonHeads been taking tips from Twitter when designing their forums?) available.

Firstly, I'm not a Service Manager anymore. I got out of the motor trade around three years ago. This though has the upside of being able to be a little more open about my views on certain things. I won't get personal about anything, though, so please don't ask for names and identifiable stuff!

Secondly, any offensive questions or trolling will simply be ignored, so it's not quite "anything", but it's almost!

I've worked for several manufacturers, mostly "mainstream" but one German prestige marque, and spent most of my time in my career in the industry as an Advisor before being promoted to Service Manager-I did this for around three years before my escape. I hoped my career would have taken me out of the frontline of dealerships into the manufacturer backstages somewhere, perhaps as a regional aftersales manager bod coaching dealerships into better performance, before the opportunity to do something I'd always dreamed of away of the industry presented itself. Didn't need asking twice.

Anyway, fire away people. Any other aftersales peoples, please feel free to join in!

Edited by itcaptainslow on Thursday 5th October 02:47

[itcaptainslow]

Being a grumpy knobhead is a pre-requisite for the job! I nearly considered taking up smoking it was that stressful.

[itcaptainslow]

talksthetorque said:

What was your internal service rate to the sales department as a percentage of the "full" service rate?

Retail rate when I was there was £89 + VAT p/hour. Internal rate was £65 p/hour.

threadlock said:

You may not know this if you were front desk rather than workshop, but how many times did work just not get done because of a pressure to get jobs through the workshop? Car comes in for a service but other jobs take longer before it so there isn't time to do the oil change. Never mind - just wipe down the filter so it looks new and the customer is none the wiser.

It's my biggest fear when my cars get serviced. Main dealers are under so much pressure to earn money and survive against the manufacturers' unreasonable demands for glossy showrooms that they must have to cut corners from time to time, screwing either the customer or the warranty companies to max their profits.

/cynicalmode

Never, I can say that with complete conviction. I'd rather call the customer and say we weren't able to get the car finished than defraud them.

Prohibiting said:

What’s the naughtiest thing you’ve witnessed a mechanic do to a customers car?

Difficult one. Seen a few questionable working practises but none at the dealership I managed. We had a smashing workshop there. Rather boringly I've never seen anything that would make your hair curl-probably the worst is seeing a tech at a previous dealership take a customer's car out for a spin, literally, as he did an impressive 500 degree pirouette on a roundabout while being a little too enthusiastic with me in the passenger seat. I was a wide eyed, new to the job service advisor at the time so didn't have the confidence to say anything.

buggalugs said:

Which brand has the nicest customers?

Easy, for the brands I worked for-Citroen. It's more to do with where the dealer is located than the brand IMO.

xjay1337 said:

Tell me why the fk anytime my car goes to a main dealer (it hasnt for about 3 years and the last thing it went in for was a warranty repair) , that the dealer goes on about "oooooo you havent had your cam belt changed" or "your suspension is about to fall off!" when it isn't, it's just the service book is not kept in the car!

I swear they say it to every one and if only 1 in 50 people say yes they'll make a fortune. Very bad in my opinion.

The tone of your post clearly indicates you've got a dealership chip on your shoulder, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and answer anyway. Just think about what you've written-if the dealership doesn't know, they advise it. Mainly because some customers (maybe you!?) would then look to blame the dealership if it failed and they hadn't been told.

We advised if the cambelt was due on age/mileage AND if there was no evidence it had been replaced. In the absence of a service book, record on our system (only if it was done by a dealer in our group), how exactly were we supposed to know if it had or hadn't been done? The customer could have just bought the car, be unaware and we could have just saved them from writing their engine off...

[itcaptainslow]

mp3manager said:

Is the screenwash top-up con really necessary?

Elaborate and I'll answer...

Justin S said:

Do you get commission on selling things which cars dont need ? Just after visiting Audi Basingstoke this week for collecting a colleagues car from MOT, their idea of warings and costing the work was 4.5mm tyres and 5mm left on the brakes. For a grand total of £800, which the work wasnt needed , although they made it seem it was .

Service advisors are commissioned on upsell of work. Our guys would NEVER sell work that wasn't necessary-they'd advise anything safety related to be done ASAP ("Red" work on the health check) and highlight anything to the customer that may need doing in the future including costings, but this was only bringing it their attention, never a push for it to be done.

It all depends on the presentation by the advisor-a good one would present it taking into account the customer's mileage, too.

"Your front pads have approximately 40% wear remaining-they're fine for now but probably won't make it to the next service in 20k miles. Pop it back in 5k and we'll give them a free recheck for you"

An honest assessment-far better than trying to sell those pads now! However those 40% left pads will make it onto the health check report, which customers will take, if not presented correctly, the dealership trying to sell that work right now, whereas it's trying to help the customer and cover the dealership's arse. Long service intervals don't help-you're trying to predict the future.

[itcaptainslow]

Gad-Westy said:

This isn't meant to be an attack but will admit it's born of bewilderment!

Now that you're out of the industry, how do you view the rates charged by main dealers? I haven't paid these rates myself but I'm astonished to hear of people routinely paying in excess of £100 per hour for main dealer labour rates. Compared to other industries, it seems a huge number.

How long does a diagnostics check take?

What is your view on labeling of Master Techs and other such titles? From the outside it's all a bit 'Apple Genius Bar'.

I can see both sides of the coin. There are a lot of hidden overheads in a dealership-there's not as much profit in that £100 p/hour as you think, but it is getting a bit daft going into three figures, I agree.

To give an example-our retail rate was £89 p/hour + VAT, internal £65 p/hour, and warranty rate charged to the manufacturer was also £65 p/hour. There's still obviously profit in that, but not loads. I used to view any job below £40 p/hour or so as not worthwhile.

Diagnostic check-just a diagnostic scan all told will take about 20-30 minutes. The real skill comes in the interpretation of the results (hence your Master Tech-who may be qualified to degree level! They're clever blokes and our's certainly was, so deserved recognition of his skills)-also the scan doesn't necessarily tell you what's wrong. Part of the interpretation is knowing when further checks are required-of the components, wiring and ECU's in a circuit. Modern CANBUS electronics also mean the car is one big network-so a fault in one component could trigger a fault code in what may seem an unrelated ECU. It's the MT's job to get to the bottom of all this.

[itcaptainslow]

Sorry guys, it's been a phenominal response to this thread! I'm working my way through trying to respond to all reasonable questions, I will get to you! I'm also on holiday at the minute so the time difference may mean I post at weird times...either that or my time as a SM means I can't sleep at night. You pick.

Ninja59 said:

I will be honest I am a picky and awkward customer, but then I love my cars and truth be told probably overservice them. If something is not done to the letter (or slightly above) then I find it hugely frustrating. My service manager at BMW originally got off to a rocky start because my initial interaction was nothing short of appalling since then though it has been awesome (and I now see some of his pressures with staff off ill and trying to manage both BMW and Mini servicing can be a nightmare).

The old one I used to know at Mazda Canterbury did go on to unlike the OP to join Mazda UK though in an aftersales position (after years of being a tech then SM).

How hard did you find it to meet (and I suppose manage) customer expectations? and I suppose how many picky/awkward customers did you meet and have to deal with?

I have witnessed the flipside in my BMW dealer of having a customer go well just do the end of warranty service check and when the service adviser said it needed an oil change she went mental. Is there ways to convince owners (when clearly work needs doing not just for pulling profit)?

One thing I do find hugely frustrating is that some of the more senior SM's hide away fearful of customers what the hell is that all about? (my previous Volvo dealer SM did this hugely it was like trying to track down a bloody diamond - I knew every single one of the rest of the team, and I got to only meet him once after the car clearly had a failing DMF and then I wanted to lamp the sod). In a sense I feel lucky with the current BMW one and the previous Mazda one as they have actually been "approachable" instead of just appearing when there has been an utter screw up.

Finally, having spoken with both of the ex Mazda SM - likened keeping an eye on techs as herding cats is that true?

I used to have a 25/70/5% rule.

25% of people are screamers but can be turned around by dealing with them reasonably, being honest and working out what they want. I don't mind these-hopefully my personal values of honesty, being straight and not bullstting helped.

70% of people are lovely.

5% are complete and utter fruit loops who you will never, ever please, or get to be reasonable. Some you tolerate, some are just so unreasonable/aggressive/abusive etc you have to tell them their business isn't welcome.

With regards to some SM's (and advisors!!) hiding, yep-you get those who don't like confrontation. I used to tell my front desk guys (and live by this myself) that whatever difficult conversation you're about to have, it'll be ten times worse if you avoid it and the customer gets to you first. Call them, be on the front foot, they'll be pissed off if they have to call/chase you so be proactive. It works, too.

Ways of convincing people-it's just a case of being honest, explaining the reasons why something needs doing, sometimes showing them on the car, basically gaining their trust. If someone doesn't trust you, it's much more difficult for them to buy stuff from you.

I'm proud that my dealership was in the top ten dealerships in the country for good customer feedback (CSI-the dreaded three letters that everyone in the trade hates!), so I think we as a team did alright!

Edited by itcaptainslow on Thursday 5th October 18:30

[itcaptainslow]

andy118run said:

mp3manager said:

Is the screenwash top-up con really necessary?

+ 1. Was the first thing that I thought about - every time I brim my screenwash before the service. Whatever, garage I use will always charge me for it.

In my book it's not a deliberate attempt to con the customer-a service job will have the parts pre picked so the tech can just bundle into the parts department and grab the bits-saves time (and therefore efficiency). The kit will include screenwash, which is why it's on the bill. You'll usually find you'll get it into the reservoir even if it's pretty full-if it is really up to the neck (hardly ever to be honest, but then again most of our customers weren't on PistonHeads

[itcaptainslow]

Eyersey1234 said:

Are service plans a waste of money?

Ah, service plans. Dealer groups are pushing these things rather hard as they've woken up to them being a good customer retention tool. Lock them in for three, four or five years, bingo.

They can work well for the customer IF they're set up right to take into account the annual mileage AND this doesn't change through the life of the plan.

There's nothing wrong with them but the pressure to sell them from upper management is such it feels like they're being rammed down a customer's throat every time they come in-it'd annoy me as a punter.

Personally I have bad memories of them purely down to the amount of pressure and scrutiny I was put under for my department's sales figures-we refused to present a plan to a customer if it wasn't good value for them-if paying as you go for services worked out cheaper, how is that fair or moral?

"Yes, but retention" the suits used to say in the accounts meetings.

"Well" said I, "If you give the customer superb service and make them WANT to come back, that's a far better retention tool than locking them into something that may not benefit them"

It was a bone of contention that bothered me (due to the pressure) right up until the day I left.

[itcaptainslow]

Stickyfinger said:

Are Service Manager sacked Estate Agents ?

I know of no ex estate agents amongst my old colleagues!

Mostly the background is technicians who have worked their way off the shop floor for a variety of reasons.

Interestingly, most Dealer Principals and senior managers in the trade have a sales background. Very few make their way up from service, and few understand it fully. I was fortunate to be managed by two DP's in my time as SM who were great-they supported me, understood the service department and were great for my development.

[itcaptainslow]

Shakermaker said:

Having come here from the salesman thread, I'm surprised no-one has yet asked why you only work half days on Saturdays?

No idea, thank god it didn't catch on-Saturday afternoons are for football.

[itcaptainslow]

WestyCarl said:

You've got 2 customers;

Customer A comes in argumentative, "knowing his rights" and knows exactly what needs to be done and how long it takes, etc, etc.

Customer B comes in and is friendly and just asks for your help

Which will get the better service from you?

See my post regarding 25/70/5 above!

[itcaptainslow]

alangla said:

Are standards in the service department different between different manufacturers?

I've had experience of a large chain of dealerships (who don't themselves have the best reputation for service work) working on an American owned brand and a Japanese one - the service work on the Japanese owned brand has been pretty much faultless. Is this likely to be down to the manufacturer, or the local management of the 2 sites I happen to have used?

The manufacturer standards are broadly similar-specifics are different but the basics are the same.

Different experiences between dealerships are very much down to the staff and management at each individual dealership-if you've got a good dealer, hold onto them!

[itcaptainslow]

Integroo said:

Is it true that the service side of the business charges full whack to the sales side of the business? When chopping in my last car, it needed two new fronts, he tried to chop £200 off, I said oh I can get OEM tyres on BlackCircles for fifty quid a corner ... "Yes that may be true but our service department charges us full whack, will be £80 + VAT even if we can get them cheaper elsewhere".

Not for us-£89 per hour retail, £65 for sales, tyres at cost + £15 including fitting etc, parts at cost plus 30% ish from memory.

st inter departmental relationship in impacting customer shocker!

[itcaptainslow]

Mephistofleas said:

What's your stance on ITIL best practice?

I don't do acronyms-if you're trying to make me look stupid you've succeeded!

If you can elaborate I'll do my best to answer

[itcaptainslow]

MrBarry123 said:

If you found a flamingo and an eagle having a fight in the back of a customer’s car, what would you do?

Grease up the apprentice and send him in.

[itcaptainslow]

ollie plymsoles said:

Can I ask why they always unplug the dash cam when the car is in the dealership?

We had nothing to hide but at the same time we really don't want you having two hours HD footage of industrial language, the apprentice being bummed and the owner of the car trying to sue us because he deems our tech's driving unsuitable.

That doesn't mean the techs take customer's cars out for joy rides-far from it-but some punters can get very emotional about seemingly inconsequential things.

For example-to get a car to do a forced regeneration of the DPF needs some pretty high revs-most customers would have kittens seeing their car do this, but as long as it's warm and the fluid levels good there's no problem at all with it.

[itcaptainslow]

rswift said:

Was (is) there a culture of the mechanics, or service jobs doing stuff on the side ?.....either on their own/mates cars in the garage....or dealer clients cars off site for a bit of CAF (cash & forget) ?

Yes-I saw it as a perk of the job for the lads to have workshop access on a Saturday afternoon-however I used to ask they didn't take the piss or steal work from the dealership's service department. None did-goodwill swings both ways and it worked well.

[itcaptainslow]

Monkeylegend said:

Op, have I got the wrong end of the dipstick here or is the idea of this thread for you to answer our questions based on your experiences?

Pretty much-unfortunately some have taken it as an opportunity to have a vent and post mindless crap/cliches-it's obvious nothing I say will change their mind that not all of the industry is bent, so I'm simply not going to waste my keyboard letters/iPhone screen.

For everyone else who has asked educated, considered questions and listened to the answers, even if they don't agree, thanks and I'll continue to answer stuff as quickly as I can type!

[itcaptainslow]

valiant said:

Why do you always end up firing the gorgeous service receptionists?

We do know they're crap but waiting in the reception for our cars while sneakingly glimpsing at their low cut tops and skin tight skirts make paying £100 per hour service costs justifiable.

Twice at Ford this happened!

I didn't have a blonde fittie to fire! Two blokes, one older gentleman and a younger fella, neither of which attractive (sorry gents!).

[itcaptainslow]

750turbo said:

Yipper said:

Know an old school friend who ran their own indy garage with 100% honesty -- and nearly went bust.

It was impossible to compete with the vast majority of garages who bend the rules to make a quick buck in a mature, overcrowded market.

He, like most others, now routinely charges for work not done, subtly breaks stuff to generate extra repairs, and uses cheaper fluids or parts than billed.

For example, using Triple QX for a quick oil change, instead of Mobil 1, gets an extra £20-30 pure profit.

Not right, of course, but it's how the industry works.

No it's not - It is just how the rogue ones work - Do not tar them all with the same brush.

Quite-my conscience is completely clear. Would never pull any stunts like this-I'd be furious if anyone did anything like this to me, or worse a family member or my partner. Just no.