ULEZ charge in 2021
Discussion
So as of today there as additional 'T-charge' for entering the congestion zone in London. Reading more about this reveals a plan to extend this zone to areas within the circular road and it will be enforced on weekends and bank holidays too.
So if your trusty old car happens to be registered in 2003 and you happen to live or work within the area covered by the circular road you have to pay £10 a day.
That is £10*365 = £3,650 extra to maintain your car? Correct?
So if your trusty old car happens to be registered in 2003 and you happen to live or work within the area covered by the circular road you have to pay £10 a day.
That is £10*365 = £3,650 extra to maintain your car? Correct?
hoegaardenruls said:
The official guidance was pre-2006, but some manufacturers are classed as early-adopters - my 2002 Audi S3 is exempt.
What I don't get is the line in the press that the worst off will be hardest hit - you pay significantly more to drive into the C-charge zone and park there, than it does to use public transport.
London has become such a hateful place to drive anyway, that I'm just glad I can normally walk to work..
I wasn't talking about the existing area. That line would be applicable to the extended region area 2021What I don't get is the line in the press that the worst off will be hardest hit - you pay significantly more to drive into the C-charge zone and park there, than it does to use public transport.
London has become such a hateful place to drive anyway, that I'm just glad I can normally walk to work..
mradam said:
Yes, but any pre-existing Congestion Charge discounts (for example if you are a resident within the zone) also apply to the T-charge:
"If your vehicle is registered for any discount from the Congestion Charge, other than the 9 + Seater discount, you will automatically benefit from the same discount from the T-Charge. (For example, vehicles with a 100 percent Congestion Charge discount will receive a 100 per cent discount from the T- Charge and Residents with a 90 percent discount will receive a 90 percent discount from the T-Charge.)"
So the total amount would reduce somewhat but it would still cost more than currently.
Well ~£365 is better than ~£3650"If your vehicle is registered for any discount from the Congestion Charge, other than the 9 + Seater discount, you will automatically benefit from the same discount from the T-Charge. (For example, vehicles with a 100 percent Congestion Charge discount will receive a 100 per cent discount from the T- Charge and Residents with a 90 percent discount will receive a 90 percent discount from the T-Charge.)"
So the total amount would reduce somewhat but it would still cost more than currently.
C70R said:
Erm...
Not sure if you're serious or not.
how much do you use public transport? Not sure if you're serious or not.
- Lee (only "Lee Green" if you're embarrassed to live next to Catford
) to Sydenham appears to be half an hour on a bus (the 202) - Lee to Ramsden appears to be ~45min, by bus/train/bus
- I assume your OH (and her colleague) is capable of the above, and the "equipment" isn't a cement-mixer
- None of these places are in the current T-Zone (did you look at my link?)
- The proposed (i.e. unconfirmed) ULEZ rollout may not include any of those areas, or may offer exemption for living inside, and is likely to limit only to "Euro 4/5" compliance for cars - hardly a major hurdle if she was hell-bent on driving
C70R said:
Private cars are being targeted because they are an incredibly inefficient means of transporting one person (the most likely scenario of a London car commuter).
Ergo, with all cars being equal, private cars are still producing the majority of pollution per person that they transport. And that's completely ignoring what a complete waste of road-space they are.
That is why they are getting targeted.
C70, I think I found the right site for you:Ergo, with all cars being equal, private cars are still producing the majority of pollution per person that they transport. And that's completely ignoring what a complete waste of road-space they are.
That is why they are getting targeted.
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/what-we-do/
I thought this was pistonheads.
Willy Nilly said:
The vehicles subject to the charge are at least 11 years old now, which is pretty much end of or near end of life for most cars. For personal transport, there are plenty of options to get in and out of London and for businesses they would need to decide if it is cheaper to pay the charge or upgrade. Occassional visitors will probably be better off paying the charge.
Let's be honest, the bulk of vehicles are compliant.
Then find me a new car without airbags, fat steering wheels, no traction control at all, no funky electronics and less bulky than most new monster trucks...Let's be honest, the bulk of vehicles are compliant.
Oh and twin turbos, I like turbos.
Edited by captainaverage on Monday 23 October 18:35
C70R said:
If that's your level of selfishness, then I'm wasting my breath. Good luck with everything in Lee.
Recidivst argument? Says the man/woman who jumps to calling people snobs etc on the internet 
I think we are wasting time here, I strongly urge you to try this website:
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/what-we-do/
kiethton said:
Moved thankfully, far nicer area a few miles west but still on the edge of the south circ.
Tbh it's hardly selfish, you buy something to do a job, you pay a ruinous amount to enable you to do so legally and then with a swipe of a pen by a mayor who needs to be seen to be doing something (whilst looking out for his unionist mates) changes something and your potentially down the pan for many £'000's through no fault of your own.
It's totally ridiculous, to an extent I can understand diesels, not motorbikes or petrol cars.
I've realised there is no point arguing about this with him/her. I agree what you've stated above though and soon this will be a UK wide thing. Tbh it's hardly selfish, you buy something to do a job, you pay a ruinous amount to enable you to do so legally and then with a swipe of a pen by a mayor who needs to be seen to be doing something (whilst looking out for his unionist mates) changes something and your potentially down the pan for many £'000's through no fault of your own.
It's totally ridiculous, to an extent I can understand diesels, not motorbikes or petrol cars.
C70R said:
Is that the best argument against the ULEZ that you can come up with?
In fact, I'm going to bet that you don't even live in London. I'm willing to bet you're unlikely to ever be affected by this, but just wanted something to moan about.
Talking to people like you is like talking to a brick wall I can go on and list lots of arguments but you will keep thinking about how selfless you are. You saying stuff like you don't know which bus takes 15 minutes demonstrates your lack of experience. Carry on with your selflessness BS.
NomduJour said:
You don’t need to be a scientist to spot what belches out plumes of soot. But public transport = good, freedom of choice = bad
Freedom of choice will soon be a thing of the past. They're even trying to force you to eat according to their opinion. Question is can we stop it? C70R said:
Go look at the AQI next to Heathrow airport, and tell me it's not among the best in the entire UK (comparable to the North of Scotland). Then compare that with Central London, and tell me that there's not a massive decline in quality. What I'm suggesting, and this isn't a huge leap of logic, is that air travel has a significantly lower impact on air quality than high concentration of ICE-engined vehicles.
By contrast, as soon as you get to the outer reaches of East Anglia, air quality is back to excellent. This is having no impact on your life in Ipswich, so please pipe down with the "what about me?" nonsense.
Your opinion in this, while being valid (if not entirely misguided), is largely worthless next to that of someone who lives and travels here each day. Ask my colleague what the filter on his cycle mask looks like on his daily ride from Surbiton to my office (he changes it weekly), and tell him that this is political point-scoring.
But of course, having no first-hand experience of the problem, your knee-jerk didn't account for people like him.
You know the thing that can be cured by improved road layout...
C70R said:
Congestion in itself isn't the issue - that's far too simplistic. The issue is a combination of population density and vehicle technology.
Ultimately, Central London is an old city, and without knocking down buildings or reclaiming land from the river, we're not going to make any meaningful difference to "road layout". Therefore, we must look to maximise the use of what we currently have, in a way that doesn't reduce air quality or increase congestion.
We can't get rid of bus lanes, because buses can carry 50+ people in the footprint of two cars at peak travel hours.
We can't get rid of bike lanes, because they enable people to exercise and commute with zero harmful emissions.
If it's so simple then tell me why some councils within London are pushing for narrower roads? How does causing more congestion I.e increasing population density of idling cars within one area during a certain time period help? From your lack of experience and knowledge outside of your area I bet you don't even know this is happening. Ultimately, Central London is an old city, and without knocking down buildings or reclaiming land from the river, we're not going to make any meaningful difference to "road layout". Therefore, we must look to maximise the use of what we currently have, in a way that doesn't reduce air quality or increase congestion.
We can't get rid of bus lanes, because buses can carry 50+ people in the footprint of two cars at peak travel hours.
We can't get rid of bike lanes, because they enable people to exercise and commute with zero harmful emissions.
I don't know how reliable Roger is but can someone explain this?
https://ourworldindata.org/london-air-pollution/
Why so high in 1850? What kind of cars were they driving? Perhaps manufacturing/coal burning might have a part to play but did they ban cars back then too?
https://ourworldindata.org/london-air-pollution/
Why so high in 1850? What kind of cars were they driving? Perhaps manufacturing/coal burning might have a part to play but did they ban cars back then too?
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