WTF, seriouisly, how are they still in business?
Discussion
Who am I on about, Peugeot of course.
Last week it was in the news that PSA doubled their profits last year. I can't get my head around that, I mean, who is buying this dross?
I had a 5008 for a week long business rental a few years back, one of the most hateful driving experiences I've ever had since being landed with a Nissan Note. Now this week I have the prospect of 200 miles in a 2008. I don't hire cars very often, surprised to see how little has changed.
I've driven it 15 miles home from the office and already I hate the b
d.
The driving position is terrible. If I set the seat so my legs are right with the clutch fully down, the gear stick is so far away I end up leaning forward to push it into 1/3/5. Part of that problem is the throw on the shift is about 8-10", which makes gear changes a long, drawn out affair. On the other hand if I set the seat so I can reach the gear lever, I have to raise the steering wheel up to avoid it hitting my knees - so it blocks line of sight to the speedo. FWIW I'm 5'11" and have quite long arms so god knows what it would be like for a normally proportioned person.
It has a stupid touch-screen infotainment system that is impossible to navigate, so far I've managed to select a radio station and adjust the volume, that's it. I can't turn it on or off, just put the volume down to zero or make the screen go dark, so I can't see the clock. The options menus only cover useful ste like wifi (WTF), phone connections and, inexcplicably, photos (WTAF?!!!). Can't find the audio controls, e.g. to reduce the bass level (Avis delivery guy must be into his grime or the like), or to set TP/TA. I can make the screen go dark, but if I want to see the trip info e.g. to check range or even just the time, the trip button turns it on again... but not to something sensible like the home page (a feature it doesn't seem to have), so I havev to enter the menu system to find the make-it-go-away button again.
The thing's so bloody big and the driving position gives no clues about where the corners are, so positioning it where I want it is almost impossible. I guess I'll adapt to this soon enough but it doesn't have parking sensors either so parking it in 2.4x4.8 spaces this week will be fun. Massive blind spot from the A pillar that makes observing traffic on a roundabout or oncomers on a medium radius right-hander interesting.
The handbrake is a stupid shape and awkward to use, hill start assist by default and its too slow to release the brake when you actually do want to go. Gear knob is too big and only feels right if you hold it like a hammer, steering wheel is too small, its like a child's toy and has no feel at all, might as well be connected to the rack with a piece of string. And that's coming from a bloke who drove a Mk1 TT for 6 years.
No idea what engine is in it, I guess it must be the 1.6 HDi (75PS) diesel, gutless as fk, couldn't pull the skin of my mother-in-law's custard.
The interior, a sea of cheap plastics but blessedly not too much metallised plastic shiny stuff (perhaps that's because mine is poverty spec, doesn't even have single zone CC).
Is there anything good about it, well, the soundproofing is excellent. The only clue that the engine is running is the dieselly shuddering coming through the seat, that is until you move off and then all hell breaks loose in a very much 1980s DAF manner. Above 5000 rpm there is a little whine from the engine that lets you pretend its supercharged, if the total lack of performance didn't give the game away.
I can't remember the last good Peugeot, 306/406 maybe?
So who is buying this st?
Cannot wait to get the TVR back on the road...
'orrible bd!
Last week it was in the news that PSA doubled their profits last year. I can't get my head around that, I mean, who is buying this dross?
I had a 5008 for a week long business rental a few years back, one of the most hateful driving experiences I've ever had since being landed with a Nissan Note. Now this week I have the prospect of 200 miles in a 2008. I don't hire cars very often, surprised to see how little has changed.
I've driven it 15 miles home from the office and already I hate the b
d. The driving position is terrible. If I set the seat so my legs are right with the clutch fully down, the gear stick is so far away I end up leaning forward to push it into 1/3/5. Part of that problem is the throw on the shift is about 8-10", which makes gear changes a long, drawn out affair. On the other hand if I set the seat so I can reach the gear lever, I have to raise the steering wheel up to avoid it hitting my knees - so it blocks line of sight to the speedo. FWIW I'm 5'11" and have quite long arms so god knows what it would be like for a normally proportioned person.
It has a stupid touch-screen infotainment system that is impossible to navigate, so far I've managed to select a radio station and adjust the volume, that's it. I can't turn it on or off, just put the volume down to zero or make the screen go dark, so I can't see the clock. The options menus only cover useful s
te like wifi (WTF), phone connections and, inexcplicably, photos (WTAF?!!!). Can't find the audio controls, e.g. to reduce the bass level (Avis delivery guy must be into his grime or the like), or to set TP/TA. I can make the screen go dark, but if I want to see the trip info e.g. to check range or even just the time, the trip button turns it on again... but not to something sensible like the home page (a feature it doesn't seem to have), so I havev to enter the menu system to find the make-it-go-away button again.The thing's so bloody big and the driving position gives no clues about where the corners are, so positioning it where I want it is almost impossible. I guess I'll adapt to this soon enough but it doesn't have parking sensors either so parking it in 2.4x4.8 spaces this week will be fun. Massive blind spot from the A pillar that makes observing traffic on a roundabout or oncomers on a medium radius right-hander interesting.
The handbrake is a stupid shape and awkward to use, hill start assist by default and its too slow to release the brake when you actually do want to go. Gear knob is too big and only feels right if you hold it like a hammer, steering wheel is too small, its like a child's toy and has no feel at all, might as well be connected to the rack with a piece of string. And that's coming from a bloke who drove a Mk1 TT for 6 years.
No idea what engine is in it, I guess it must be the 1.6 HDi (75PS) diesel, gutless as f
k, couldn't pull the skin of my mother-in-law's custard.The interior, a sea of cheap plastics but blessedly not too much metallised plastic shiny stuff (perhaps that's because mine is poverty spec, doesn't even have single zone CC).
Is there anything good about it, well, the soundproofing is excellent. The only clue that the engine is running is the dieselly shuddering coming through the seat, that is until you move off and then all hell breaks loose in a very much 1980s DAF manner. Above 5000 rpm there is a little whine from the engine that lets you pretend its supercharged, if the total lack of performance didn't give the game away.
I can't remember the last good Peugeot, 306/406 maybe?
So who is buying this s
t?Cannot wait to get the TVR back on the road...
'orrible b
d!
Peugeot!6pi said:
I just think you are prejudiced and your review is a bit biased to say the least.
A 2008 is not the type of car that will set the world on fire but it's very far from being as bad as you describe it. Just compare it to other similar cars in the same price bracket : do you really think a Renault Captur is a much better car ? or a Ford Ecosport ?
Peugeot is making profit because their current lineup is actually quite good compared to their direct competition. You just need to see it through a normal customer point of view, not as a TVR owner...
I get where you're coming from but wouldn't say I'm biased (I would say that wouldn't I?!)A 2008 is not the type of car that will set the world on fire but it's very far from being as bad as you describe it. Just compare it to other similar cars in the same price bracket : do you really think a Renault Captur is a much better car ? or a Ford Ecosport ?
Peugeot is making profit because their current lineup is actually quite good compared to their direct competition. You just need to see it through a normal customer point of view, not as a TVR owner...
Obviously I don't expect it to emulate a performance marque or a 90s car in any way. At the end of the day it has to get me the length of the M3 and some rural and then home again, it's a tool for a job and that is the end of it. But why does it have to be such a s
tty tool? Do they not think about little things like the driving position and functionality of the big computer in the middle of the dash in the design office? Do they have a design office? Gutless engines and bland interiors are fine for the purpose, mundane would be good, if it at least worked properly.Imagine going in to HSS And hiring a cement mixer that had the loading hatch 1.5m up in the air on the top of the drum. You'd say "well, that's a f
king stupid way to do it, what's wrong with these people?!" wouldn't you? Or a Vax that weighed 50 kg and had no wheels or a handle too small for a human hand. Would you be biased to criticise a crap design just because you have something at home that does it better?I can't comment about the competition as I haven't driven it, bar a Focus which had a horrible shiny interior but at least the ergonomics were good. I suppose if all people want is 4 wheels and a wifi connection for the smallest £ pcm then that's job done, but if this car is the best in class I despair to think what the rest of it must be like.
Just to be clear I'll say it again
Yes, its a hire car and performance and handling are secondary considerations to getting from A to B. I didn't mention the handling in the OP because on my rush hour motorway and London commute I wouldn't know anyway, so it wouldn't have been fair criticism. I don't expect it to be the last word in driver engagement and given its a poverty spec rental fleet machine I can excuse the poor trim level and lack of functions too.
I do expect to be able to find a comfortable driving position and for a car to have halfway decent ergonomics. If it weren't for this, I'd be satisfied. The shift is too far away, the clutch is too high, the steering wheel obscures the speedo at 30-40 mph and the A pillar blind spot is a pain in the arse.
Say again, if you went into the hire shop and hired a tool that was impossible to use because the ergonomics were crap, you'd not be happy either would you? Maybe the public think they don't want these things but I bet they wouldn't even notice if it were better, so as a car designer why can't/won't Peugeot make more effort?
Why did I hire it then? I didn't, the company did and you get what you get. Personally I'd be happy with a Corsa or Ka but we have to have these group E wagons because of health and safety.
Yes, its a hire car and performance and handling are secondary considerations to getting from A to B. I didn't mention the handling in the OP because on my rush hour motorway and London commute I wouldn't know anyway, so it wouldn't have been fair criticism. I don't expect it to be the last word in driver engagement and given its a poverty spec rental fleet machine I can excuse the poor trim level and lack of functions too.
I do expect to be able to find a comfortable driving position and for a car to have halfway decent ergonomics. If it weren't for this, I'd be satisfied. The shift is too far away, the clutch is too high, the steering wheel obscures the speedo at 30-40 mph and the A pillar blind spot is a pain in the arse.
Say again, if you went into the hire shop and hired a tool that was impossible to use because the ergonomics were crap, you'd not be happy either would you? Maybe the public think they don't want these things but I bet they wouldn't even notice if it were better, so as a car designer why can't/won't Peugeot make more effort?
Why did I hire it then? I didn't, the company did and you get what you get. Personally I'd be happy with a Corsa or Ka but we have to have these group E wagons because of health and safety.
Bit fed up this morning... I thought I'd put a CD in so took a few with me, but then realized... no CD slot or source option. There is a USB option and I have a stick with some albums on it, but can't find a USB slot either. Doesn't help that my journeys always start in the dark. Have at least lucked upon the tone and balance controls
I can use a bit of A272 tomorrow (Chichester - Southampton avoiding the A27) so that'll be a good test of the handling, toy steering notwithstanding.
I can use a bit of A272 tomorrow (Chichester - Southampton avoiding the A27) so that'll be a good test of the handling, toy steering notwithstanding.
valiant said:
Oh, and I win internet points for foretelling that we were due a Peugeot slagging thread. I mentioned in the 'Vauxhall's are st' thread that as we've had a Renault and Vauxhall bashing thread, Peugeot won't be far behind. Cheers Op, my faith (and predictability)in ph has been restored. 
Sorry chap, didn't see the Renault thread and very meh about the vx one. I'm no particular vx fan either but I've driven quite a few and they serve their purpose well.t' thread that as we've had a Renault and Vauxhall bashing thread, Peugeot won't be far behind. Cheers Op, my faith (and predictability)in ph has been restored. WJNB said:
i.e. mainly mums. All they need is any utilitarian box on wheels to transport the endless brats they've churned out. The things are only used for the school/crèche runs, going to the shops & the gym.
Well they've missed the target there then too. The boot's not big enough for a standard mum-chariot buggy + shopping unless you pile it all in a heap, and loading/unloading is badly hindered by the parcel shelf as it doesn't lift with the hatch. Edited by 2gins on Tuesday 20th February 21:30
Edited by 2gins on Tuesday 20th February 21:45
Handed it back today after 270 miles.
I'm quite impressed Peugeot have made a car that size 1,045 kg, must be modern materials and manufacturing techniques. So well done there.
Handling was OK on the rural routes too, not much body roll and the front end goes in nicely, so while not exactly exciting or engaging certainly competent handling despite the poor feel.
I eventually managed to sort out the radio TA/TP menu and tone controls by accident (no manual provided so I couldn't rtfm) and once set up its pretty much a case of leave it alone, so that ended up OK too.
Driving position and cabin ergonomics, my main gripe in the OP, unforgivably bad. We've been building cars for over 100 years, yes its a white goods car for those that aren't bothered but how hard would it have been to make it even half decent?
Managed 42 mpg, a long way off the claimed 57 mpg for the 1.2 VTi and that was doing 80% motorway driving. For reference my 2004 Saab would have returned around 36 mpg over the same journey, 210 bhp 2.0T. Both figures brim to brim calculated, not off the dash.
For the man that asked, TVR is off the road because the wishbones are rusty and needed sorting out, along with some surface rust on the chassis while its in bits. A fairly short project but not when you're fitting it around full time time work and family, and not unreasonable either for a 20 year old car. FWIW, total reliability so far.
I'm quite impressed Peugeot have made a car that size 1,045 kg, must be modern materials and manufacturing techniques. So well done there.
Handling was OK on the rural routes too, not much body roll and the front end goes in nicely, so while not exactly exciting or engaging certainly competent handling despite the poor feel.
I eventually managed to sort out the radio TA/TP menu and tone controls by accident (no manual provided so I couldn't rtfm) and once set up its pretty much a case of leave it alone, so that ended up OK too.
Driving position and cabin ergonomics, my main gripe in the OP, unforgivably bad. We've been building cars for over 100 years, yes its a white goods car for those that aren't bothered but how hard would it have been to make it even half decent?
Managed 42 mpg, a long way off the claimed 57 mpg for the 1.2 VTi and that was doing 80% motorway driving. For reference my 2004 Saab would have returned around 36 mpg over the same journey, 210 bhp 2.0T. Both figures brim to brim calculated, not off the dash.
For the man that asked, TVR is off the road because the wishbones are rusty and needed sorting out, along with some surface rust on the chassis while its in bits. A fairly short project but not when you're fitting it around full time time work and family, and not unreasonable either for a 20 year old car. FWIW, total reliability so far.
greenarrow said:
So, the 2008 is not a good car and this means all Peugeots are rubbish? That seems to be the summary of the OP.
..is it me or is PH just a very angry place these days where only a few brands cut the mustard, i.e. BMW, Porsche and one or two others. God forbid if you drive a Vauxhall or a Peugeot and if you drive a diesel, especially a Vauxhall or Peugeot one, you're the devil incarnate!!!
You can find my overall opinion on p6...is it me or is PH just a very angry place these days where only a few brands cut the mustard, i.e. BMW, Porsche and one or two others. God forbid if you drive a Vauxhall or a Peugeot and if you drive a diesel, especially a Vauxhall or Peugeot one, you're the devil incarnate!!!
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