Are German cars still cool?
Discussion
Growing up in the 80s/90s, when Fords, Vauxhalls, Austins/Rovers, Peugeots and Renaults seemed to dominate UK roads, German cars seemed a lot more scarce and were quite cool and aspirational. German engineering and build quality were superior and without the proliferation of cheap finance deals that we have now, you had to be pretty wealthy to own a German car. My dad owned a mk2 Polo back in the 1980s and aspired to own a Golf but at the time, they were just too out of reach. Even when me and my friends started driving in the late 1990s, the kids with wealthy parents drove mk2 Golfs, whereas the less wealthy kids or the ones that paid for their own cars had Fiestas/Metros. Now though thanks to competitive finance/lease deals and higher volumes, a Golf is just as affordable as any of the other small car alternatives.
Then of course, you had the E30/E34/E32-series BMWs and even to a lesser extent the E46/E39/E38s, the aerodynamic B3/B4 Audi 80/90 and C3 Audi 100/200, as featured in SOTW and of course the first generation of A-series cars with their simple and elegant Bauhaus styling. Were Mercedes cool back then? I'm not so sure. Those older Mercedes are cool now in a boxy, over-engineered kind of way but in their day, they tended to appeal to an older demographic, although the original SLK, CLK and R230 SL certainly helped Mercedes to appeal to a younger audience.
For sure, the Germans still make some nice cars but with the Golf now out-selling the Focus/Astra and the A-Class/C-Class being more prolific than many of their non-premium competitors, do they still hold the same "cool" factor that exclusivity and their premium price used to garner?
Looking at current offerings, I would have to say that in my opinion, they have mostly lost that "cool" factor but perhaps some models still manage to pull it off.
Audi: A5, A7 and S1 maybe? A5 has to be the best-looking saloon-based coupe out there and the S1 is a pretty unique proposition in its class. Perhaps the S4 Avant but the RS models are a little in your face now compared to the original RS2/RS4/RS6 models. Does the A1 manage to pull it off? A premium-badged supermini certainly has appeal and I'm surprised that BMW and Mercedes haven't got in on the act but I guess that they have MINI and Smart for that respectively. It does look a little weird though, although the new A1 looks significantly better in my opinion.
BMW: M cars and i3/i8 maybe? In my opinion, the 6-Series Gran Coupe is still one of the best-looking cars on the road.
Mercedes: Not really, a bit too bling but maybe the V8-engined AMG saloon/estate models have a bit more subtlety and class?
VW: Golf still the class benchmark but has its massive popularity lost its more exclusive cool factor? Golf GTI still maybe, as it's one of the few hot hatches that still has some class and appeals to a universal crowd and as such, doesn't need to compete in the willy-waving stakes as most of the hot hatches do. The Up too is a pretty cool little city car with the right badge if you don't want something retro-styled. The Transporter is probably still the coolest van but that isn't really saying much!
Porsche: At a push, maybe a simply-specced 911 Carrera/Carrera S but that still has nothing on a 928 and despite being a very good car, it's still kind of the default, predictable choice in its class.
So, despite their massive popularity, has the bubble burst and are German cars no longer the "cool" aspirational choice that they were 20 years ago and if they're not then what has filled that void?
Then of course, you had the E30/E34/E32-series BMWs and even to a lesser extent the E46/E39/E38s, the aerodynamic B3/B4 Audi 80/90 and C3 Audi 100/200, as featured in SOTW and of course the first generation of A-series cars with their simple and elegant Bauhaus styling. Were Mercedes cool back then? I'm not so sure. Those older Mercedes are cool now in a boxy, over-engineered kind of way but in their day, they tended to appeal to an older demographic, although the original SLK, CLK and R230 SL certainly helped Mercedes to appeal to a younger audience.
For sure, the Germans still make some nice cars but with the Golf now out-selling the Focus/Astra and the A-Class/C-Class being more prolific than many of their non-premium competitors, do they still hold the same "cool" factor that exclusivity and their premium price used to garner?
Looking at current offerings, I would have to say that in my opinion, they have mostly lost that "cool" factor but perhaps some models still manage to pull it off.
Audi: A5, A7 and S1 maybe? A5 has to be the best-looking saloon-based coupe out there and the S1 is a pretty unique proposition in its class. Perhaps the S4 Avant but the RS models are a little in your face now compared to the original RS2/RS4/RS6 models. Does the A1 manage to pull it off? A premium-badged supermini certainly has appeal and I'm surprised that BMW and Mercedes haven't got in on the act but I guess that they have MINI and Smart for that respectively. It does look a little weird though, although the new A1 looks significantly better in my opinion.
BMW: M cars and i3/i8 maybe? In my opinion, the 6-Series Gran Coupe is still one of the best-looking cars on the road.
Mercedes: Not really, a bit too bling but maybe the V8-engined AMG saloon/estate models have a bit more subtlety and class?
VW: Golf still the class benchmark but has its massive popularity lost its more exclusive cool factor? Golf GTI still maybe, as it's one of the few hot hatches that still has some class and appeals to a universal crowd and as such, doesn't need to compete in the willy-waving stakes as most of the hot hatches do. The Up too is a pretty cool little city car with the right badge if you don't want something retro-styled. The Transporter is probably still the coolest van but that isn't really saying much!
Porsche: At a push, maybe a simply-specced 911 Carrera/Carrera S but that still has nothing on a 928 and despite being a very good car, it's still kind of the default, predictable choice in its class.
So, despite their massive popularity, has the bubble burst and are German cars no longer the "cool" aspirational choice that they were 20 years ago and if they're not then what has filled that void?
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 20th July 17:29
TooMany2cvs said:
There y'go. Question answered.
Or do you really care about the opinions of others more than your own opinion?
Do I care to the point where it would influence my decision to buy one? No, but yeah, I'm interested to hear other PHers opinions. There's been a pretty big shift in the last 20 years in UK new car buying habits to the point where the old favourites (Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Renault etc) struggle to sell some of their larger, more expensive vehicles in significant numbers and in some cases have discontinued them all together (Laguna and Accord for instance). Yes, people are buying more SUVs/crossovers but 3-Series/A4/C-Class are still selling well despite being more expensive than Mondeo/Insignia/508 etc and many of those cars are comparable and often better in terms of quality and reliability in reality.Or do you really care about the opinions of others more than your own opinion?
Interesting point on Kia/Hyundai. In my experience in recent years, they are offering comparable quality and reliability to the Japanese, class-leading warranties, very high levels of equipment and tech and I've also been in Kias with interiors that compare very favourably to the Germans. Just not much to get the enthusiast in me excited to date but cars like the i30N and Stinger are starting to change that and ironically, the Stinger has the exclusivity that an Audi/BMW/Mercedes lacks!
Haltamer said:
Well he looks like a pretty cool millenial, so yes? 
Kierkegaard said:
Audi were cool for about a year c.2002.
BMW were cool pre-bangle.
Mercedes were cool from 1950-1995.
Porsche were cool pre-watercool
VW were cool pre-emissiongate.
as an addition..
Volvo are now cool...apparently.
Alfa Romeo have always been cool.
Aston Martin were cool until they started selling a Toyota supermini.
Jaguar...it's complicated. Cool, but several non-cool Jaguars to list..
Interesting. To be honest, pre-original A4/A6/A8, I'm not really sure if I got the whole Audi thing but I guess that they used to be a little quirky and something that an airline pilot or architect might drive rather than a photocopier salesman! VW not so much. I guess that my dad's mk2 Polo was fairly well put together for a cheap car at the time but nothing special, although the Golf has always seemed to enjoy a bit of a halo. Some of their newer vehicles like the Arteon, Tiguan and Touareg enjoy a bit more of an aspirational/premium feel too. I wasn't trying to infer that all vehicles from German manufacturers were cool but certainly they used to be more expensive, hence less attainable and by virtue more aspirational and perhaps a bigger proportion of them enjoyed a cool image as a result? I was just interested as to whether any models have managed to retain that.BMW were cool pre-bangle.
Mercedes were cool from 1950-1995.
Porsche were cool pre-watercool
VW were cool pre-emissiongate.
as an addition..
Volvo are now cool...apparently.
Alfa Romeo have always been cool.
Aston Martin were cool until they started selling a Toyota supermini.
Jaguar...it's complicated. Cool, but several non-cool Jaguars to list..
Hyundai, Kia, Skoda, Volvo and Alfa Romeo are all companies whose image seems to be on an upward trajectory at the moment but saying that Hyundais, Kias and Skodas are cool might be pushing it a bit.
Volvo, yes. I would rather have any of their SUVs than the German competition and the new S60, V60 and V90 are all really stylish and cool too. Too bad that they have got rid of the quirky 5 cylinder petrol and diesel engines, so not much to appeal to the enthusiast. I think this is where Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche score for the enthusiast despite the brand image being diluted a bit by cheap diesels and crossovers because you can actually still get RWD/AWD chassis, multi-cylinder engines and manual transmissions, although even the bigger engines and manual transmissions are getting more scarce in these vehicles.
Post-4C, Giulia and Stelvio, Alfa Romeo is certainly up there at the moment as well, although they were just running with the MiTo and Giulietta at one stage, which wasn't so good. Nothing wrong with them per se but the classic Alfa grille didn't sit so well on a couple of rather squat hatchbacks in my opinion. The 159 was 10 times cooler than a 3-Series though, even if it wasn't necessarily the better car.
Jaguar, yes and no. I think the F-Type and F-Pace are really cool. The XJ is kind of cool but getting on a bit now and doesn't quite have the presence of the "classic-style" XJs. The XE and XF are close but no cigar for me. Land Rover to me seem to be the more thriving half of that business but conversely, I think that the products are getting less cool!
What's the verdict on the AMG GT? It's a good-looking car with echoes of the 1950s SLs (especially the convertible version) but it seems quite spec-sensitive and I find there is a fine line between cool and tasteful and chavy and tasteless. It's a very nice car but I haven't really fallen for it yet.
Hungrymc said:
I wouldn’t have said cool was ever the right word for German cars in general. They were a bit too obvious as a slightly aspirational choice. Trying a bit too hard. Just look at 911s in the 80s.
Yeah, I'm with you on 911s in the 1980s, at least contemporaneously but are these Porsche not cool?
V8RX7 said:
Those who are happy / confident / secure with who they are, don't need to demonstrate how successful they are to all and sundry
However most people have a need to fit in - so if everyone else has a new car and they don't they may feel pressured to buy one simply not to be the odd one out.
I tend to drive £5k cars but I admit it's nice to occasionally borrow something from my Dad (a car dealer) for a day out, I wouldn't want a Bentley / Ferrari everyday though - nor does he, his runaround is a dented £500 Honda Civic.
Alternatively, we're over-thinking this and although I'm sure that's true in some instances, most people just buy the car that they like/want, whether that be a Ford, Renault, Audi or BMW. If they can afford it then why not?However most people have a need to fit in - so if everyone else has a new car and they don't they may feel pressured to buy one simply not to be the odd one out.
I tend to drive £5k cars but I admit it's nice to occasionally borrow something from my Dad (a car dealer) for a day out, I wouldn't want a Bentley / Ferrari everyday though - nor does he, his runaround is a dented £500 Honda Civic.
MC Bodge said:
It must be, although I think that for many the monthly car repayment or lease bill is seen as a "fixed cost" that will always be there, like a utility bill.
Some people I know genuinely wouldn't like to be seen driving an old or non-premium car, and are typically not interested in cars or driving per se. I am interested and I currently drive a fairly old, increasingly tatty, non-premium car, which I find quite liberating and the wife has an old, non-premium, fun to drive car with little power. Some of the best driving experiences I've had (on 4 wheels) have been in rented, cheap SUVs - Eco sport in the Andes and Duster in Icleand.
Of course, if you can afford to pay for it, then you can have it, but as you say, the constant upgrading to newer, but with no increased utility or useful performance does seem a bit like pouring money away for the "privilege", especially if they are not loaded, couldn't replace a washing machine and have no savings.... Each to their own.
So is this a phenomenon unique to just cars then? Do people buy hot tubs to make themselves appear posh/wealthy/successful, despite not really liking water? Some people I know genuinely wouldn't like to be seen driving an old or non-premium car, and are typically not interested in cars or driving per se. I am interested and I currently drive a fairly old, increasingly tatty, non-premium car, which I find quite liberating
and the wife has an old, non-premium, fun to drive car with little power. Some of the best driving experiences I've had (on 4 wheels) have been in rented, cheap SUVs - Eco sport in the Andes and Duster in Icleand.Of course, if you can afford to pay for it, then you can have it, but as you say, the constant upgrading to newer, but with no increased utility or useful performance does seem a bit like pouring money away for the "privilege", especially if they are not loaded, couldn't replace a washing machine and have no savings.... Each to their own.
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 3rd August 19:34
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