Cyclists without lights - something needs to be done
Discussion
Look I know the usual mob will roll their eyes, but this has actually come from my partner's 12 year old daughter who did a school project about cycle safety (really good idea by the school). Anyway she was with her mum yesterday travelling a journey of about 12 miles at 6:30pm, her mum was driving and she decided to record the number of cyclists without lights while her mum drove. In short she saw 102 cyclists of which she recorded 34 riding without any form of lighting or hi-vis clothing.
That is not a 'tiny minority'! It also pretty much backs up what I used to see in London.
I'm not getting into a drivers vs cyclists argument over this (as the vast majority of drivers have lights on their vehicles that work anyway), but asking what can sensibly be done? I believe the police did an operation in Birmingham last year where they stopped cyclists without lights, showed them why it was a stupid idea to not have them and then issued them with a free set. I think this needs to be rolled out across the country. I know people will say they should buy their own, but to be honest if it saves just one from being knocked down and killed and the angst to the driver who has to carry that for the rest of their lives it's a small price to pay. It's clear some education is required at the very least.
Thoughts?
That is not a 'tiny minority'! It also pretty much backs up what I used to see in London.
I'm not getting into a drivers vs cyclists argument over this (as the vast majority of drivers have lights on their vehicles that work anyway), but asking what can sensibly be done? I believe the police did an operation in Birmingham last year where they stopped cyclists without lights, showed them why it was a stupid idea to not have them and then issued them with a free set. I think this needs to be rolled out across the country. I know people will say they should buy their own, but to be honest if it saves just one from being knocked down and killed and the angst to the driver who has to carry that for the rest of their lives it's a small price to pay. It's clear some education is required at the very least.
Thoughts?
cb1965 said:
Look I know the usual mob will roll their eyes, but this has actually come from my partner's 12 year old daughter who did a school project about cycle safety (really good idea by the school). Anyway she was with her mum yesterday travelling a journey of about 12 miles at 6:30pm, her mum was driving and she decided to record the number of cyclists without lights while her mum drove. In short she saw 102 cyclists of which she recorded 34 riding without any form of lighting or hi-vis clothing.
That is not a 'tiny minority'! It also pretty much backs up what I used to see in London.
I'm not getting into a drivers vs cyclists argument over this (as the vast majority of drivers have lights on their vehicles that work anyway), but asking what can sensibly be done? I believe the police did an operation in Birmingham last year where they stopped cyclists without lights, showed them why it was a stupid idea to not have them and then issued them with a free set. I think this needs to be rolled out across the country. I know people will say they should buy their own, but to be honest if it saves just one from being knocked down and killed and the angst to the driver who has to carry that for the rest of their lives it's a small price to pay. It's clear some education is required at the very least.
Thoughts?
So this fictonal person saw all 104 cyclists, doesn’t sound too tricky to navigate them That is not a 'tiny minority'! It also pretty much backs up what I used to see in London.
I'm not getting into a drivers vs cyclists argument over this (as the vast majority of drivers have lights on their vehicles that work anyway), but asking what can sensibly be done? I believe the police did an operation in Birmingham last year where they stopped cyclists without lights, showed them why it was a stupid idea to not have them and then issued them with a free set. I think this needs to be rolled out across the country. I know people will say they should buy their own, but to be honest if it saves just one from being knocked down and killed and the angst to the driver who has to carry that for the rest of their lives it's a small price to pay. It's clear some education is required at the very least.
Thoughts?
The trouble is, as usual your anti cycling agenda, along with the usual suspects, fails to consider anything other than your own bias. The rational person would identify that there are some cyclists who lack the brains to consider self preservation, similarly there are motorists who are so angry at the world they look at others to vent their frustrations. That’s you and how you consider cyclists. If there were no cyclists it would be horse riders.....get some help.
Thoughts. Cool story bro.
Deerfoot said:
Steve91 said:
Whether on a bike or in a car, you can't educate the stupid.
This.Tune in next week when some PH regular will complain that he’s been blinded (he hasn’t) by the lights from a bike...
PF62 said:
What is anti-cycling about suggesting that cyclists might want to improve their chances of being seen by actually using the lights the law requires them to do?
Or is it any criticism of cyclists is "anti-cycling" (and don't come out with the stupidity that these cyclists aren't real cyclists).
Don’t worry, yonex, Mave and few others are so caught up in their perception of me they’d argue anything to the contrary of what I say no matter what it is. Ignore them, I am.Or is it any criticism of cyclists is "anti-cycling" (and don't come out with the stupidity that these cyclists aren't real cyclists).
The fact is several others on here have observed similar ratios and it cannot just be passed off as a tiny minority. It’s important as it doesn’t just affect those doing it, but those who may well end up colliding with them as a result. The cycling lobbies spend a lot of time complaining about drivers (much of the time with justification), it would be a really good idea if they also picked up the whole lights/hi-vis thing as one of their crusades. Other cyclists could also start having a word with the offenders as they might listen then, they are unlikely (it seems) to listen to a driver offering them some potentially life saving advice.
CrutyRammers said:
matthias73 said:
Nothing needs to be done.
The fewer rules governing the petty aspects of our lives, the better. If someone wants to commit velosicide against a bus, then let him have his Darwin moment.
Amen. Alas, the idea that people should be responsible for themselves appears to be fallig out of fashion.The fewer rules governing the petty aspects of our lives, the better. If someone wants to commit velosicide against a bus, then let him have his Darwin moment.
cb1965 said:
Don’t worry, yonex, Mave and few others are so caught up in their perception of me they’d argue anything to the contrary of what I say no matter what it is. Ignore them, I am.
The fact is several others on here have observed similar ratios and it cannot just be passed off as a tiny minority. It’s important as it doesn’t just affect those doing it, but those who may well end up colliding with them as a result. The cycling lobbies spend a lot of time complaining about drivers (much of the time with justification), it would be a really good idea if they also picked up the whole lights/hi-vis thing as one of their crusades. Other cyclists could also start having a word with the offenders as they might listen then, they are unlikely (it seems) to listen to a driver offering them some potentially life saving advice.
I’m not worried at all sir, everyone is laughing at you . Most cyclists would say something if they came across someone in danger. They’d also stop and help generally, because unlike the motorists in your world people are actually pretty decent. Show me any pro cycling group who don’t suggest being visible?The fact is several others on here have observed similar ratios and it cannot just be passed off as a tiny minority. It’s important as it doesn’t just affect those doing it, but those who may well end up colliding with them as a result. The cycling lobbies spend a lot of time complaining about drivers (much of the time with justification), it would be a really good idea if they also picked up the whole lights/hi-vis thing as one of their crusades. Other cyclists could also start having a word with the offenders as they might listen then, they are unlikely (it seems) to listen to a driver offering them some potentially life saving advice.
You’re obviously bored and fancied a troll. 2/10
swisstoni said:
Time was when police were visible a lot and had the time to simply patrol about looking for law breaches.
Riding without lights would be a definite pull-over and a stern talking to in the first instance.
Now if you see police at all they are busy on a task and haven't got time for random stops like they used to.
The effect of all this was to make you think twice about breaking the law because you remembered the time you got stopped.
Agree that this is possibly part of the problem, but that style of policing will never return so something else needs to happen. It is a ridiculous situation as leaving the law aside I can’t imagine thinking cycling without lights is a good idea any more than driving without them is, not sure where their self preservation gene has gone to be frank! Riding without lights would be a definite pull-over and a stern talking to in the first instance.
Now if you see police at all they are busy on a task and haven't got time for random stops like they used to.
The effect of all this was to make you think twice about breaking the law because you remembered the time you got stopped.
cb1965 said:
That is not a 'tiny minority'! It also pretty much backs up what I used to see in London.
It’s a minority. It isn’t a tiny minority. It doesn’t back up what you say, “pretty much” or at all, because you consistently claim all cyclists are completely lawless w
kers. There is, however, zero excuse for not riding with lights. When I’m riding home in the winter I notice every one of these dicks and think they deserve everything they get. Alas, they probably don’t get sufficiently frequent lessons about the dangers of not having lights.
The other group that deserves a kick in the b
ks is pedestrians wearing all black with a hoodie up who step out into the road without looking at night. Equally stupid. Greg66 said:
It’s a minority. It isn’t a tiny minority.
That’s what I said.Greg66 said:
It doesn’t back up what you say, “pretty much” or at all, because you consistently claim all cyclists are completely lawless wkers.
No, I really don’t. You do what so many do on here, read what you want to read and repeat it until it becomes ‘fact’ in your mind. kers. Anyway let’s not derail the thread with pettiness. Agree with your point about pedestrians.
Surprise, surprise the usual suspects are post failing attempts and sarcasm and denying it happens on any significant level while metaphorically patting each other on the back as ever. What a pity, given they're so proud of the fact they cycle, that they don't take what so many others, including some other cyclists, see as a problem seriously, but the then it's these sort of uncaring selfish attitudes from so many that leads us to the situation we see today and not just as far as cycling in the dark with no lights goes either.
Miserablegit said:
heebeegeetee said:
To be fair, you are the leader of the mob - well, the other mob, anyway - so I don't know what you've got against mobs.
My thoughts? I've been driving for 40 years now and I still haven't had a problem seeing cyclists, unlit or otherwise. I'm 60 now and am aware the old eyesight isn't what it was, but I still haven't yet to come even remotely close to having a problem so I'm struggling to accept it's that much of a problem, even if common sense says otherwise.
All of us here are pedestrians at times, including cb and his daughter and his wife and all of the other children and parents at their school and so on. The advice in the HC for pedestrians at night is fairly clear https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-pedestri... but we all disregard it.
CB, maybe next time you and your family get out of your car at night, perhaps you'd like to get your daughter to do a survey on how much reflective stuff other pedestrians have, starting perhaps with her own family? And the usual answers of pedestrians not being proper road users, and pavements etc don't explain how so many car/pedestrian collisions take place, with higher fatality rates and numbers than cyclists.
What IS a problem nowadays though, what I think genuinely is quite a considerable problem, one that genuinely dazzles and reduces visibilty, and which may genuinely hamper the ability to see that unlit cyclist or pedestrian, is LED headlights.
Now, if we could get something done about those, then I think that would be genuine enhancement of road safety and genuinely would be likely to save more than one life.
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/columnists/john-simi...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525 "RAC says new headlights 'blinding drivers' "
"In 2014, investigators reported this as an influence in ten fatal crashes, nearly 70 serious accidents and more than 250 other accidents. Overall, this was an increase of 11 per cent on 2010." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4464138/W...
https://inews.co.uk/news/campaigners-call-dazzling...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/24/driver...
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonab...
Yup that's right - it's someone else's fault....cyclists shouldn't have to take responsibility for their own safety......My thoughts? I've been driving for 40 years now and I still haven't had a problem seeing cyclists, unlit or otherwise. I'm 60 now and am aware the old eyesight isn't what it was, but I still haven't yet to come even remotely close to having a problem so I'm struggling to accept it's that much of a problem, even if common sense says otherwise.
All of us here are pedestrians at times, including cb and his daughter and his wife and all of the other children and parents at their school and so on. The advice in the HC for pedestrians at night is fairly clear https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-pedestri... but we all disregard it.
CB, maybe next time you and your family get out of your car at night, perhaps you'd like to get your daughter to do a survey on how much reflective stuff other pedestrians have, starting perhaps with her own family? And the usual answers of pedestrians not being proper road users, and pavements etc don't explain how so many car/pedestrian collisions take place, with higher fatality rates and numbers than cyclists.
What IS a problem nowadays though, what I think genuinely is quite a considerable problem, one that genuinely dazzles and reduces visibilty, and which may genuinely hamper the ability to see that unlit cyclist or pedestrian, is LED headlights.
Now, if we could get something done about those, then I think that would be genuine enhancement of road safety and genuinely would be likely to save more than one life.
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/columnists/john-simi...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525 "RAC says new headlights 'blinding drivers' "
"In 2014, investigators reported this as an influence in ten fatal crashes, nearly 70 serious accidents and more than 250 other accidents. Overall, this was an increase of 11 per cent on 2010." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4464138/W...
https://inews.co.uk/news/campaigners-call-dazzling...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/24/driver...
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonab...
MDUBZ said:
the OPs post didn't seem that unreasonable tbh
No, it's pathetic really isn't it. It seems that some people on here just don't think cyclists should be responsible for their own safety and then seem to get unreasonably angry about it and start hurling the insults around. They also don't understand what a generalisation is. Oh well if I'm cretinous for wanting to not kill a cyclist because I can't see them due to their choice to ride with no lights or hi-vis clothing then fine, I can live with that. cb1965 said:
No, it's pathetic really isn't it. It seems that some people on here just don't think cyclists should be responsible for their own safety and then seem to get unreasonably angry about it and start hurling the insults around. Oh well if I'm cretinous for wanting to not kill a cyclist because I can't see them due to their choice to ride with no lights or hi-vis clothing then fine, I can live with that.
You don’t give a toss about cyclists, how many times have you posted a load of tripe related to cycling with this agenda of yours. We know it all stems back to ‘when I lived in London’, fascinating stuff, let alone that horrible accident which was all the cyclists fault, but you’ve never actually shared evidence and removed all your posts when the the thread left you nowhere to go. You’ve campaigned for speed bumps in your road, called cyclists every name under the sun but want your ‘safety’ thread taken seriously?
Bit late for that. Anti cycling troll. That’s the beginning and end of it.
yonex, do you ride without lights? I suspect not so what are you getting so upset about? You need to calm down and stop letting the way you perceive a poster on an Internet forum wind you up so much. You're reading things into posts that just aren't there simply because you want to and it's making you look a bit unhinged frankly.
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