Owning a car in central London
Discussion
Is it worth it?
I am moving to London in March (not sure where yet, somewhere near Canary Wharf, maybe Greenwich, so not quite central London I suppose). I currently have a Fiat 124 Spider on PCP, but I will probably sell it before I move, as I cba driving it to London, making sure I find a flat with parking, etc. etc. After a few months, if I think I need/want a car, I think I'll buy a toy - something relatively cheap in cash probably with two seats and a big engine.
Is there any point though? Or will it just sit outside my flat doing very little as nobody in London needs to drive anywhere? Can you get in and out of the city on a weekend to things worth seeing without too much hassle? Or is it easier just to get the train and hire a car on the rare occasion I need one.
I am moving to London in March (not sure where yet, somewhere near Canary Wharf, maybe Greenwich, so not quite central London I suppose). I currently have a Fiat 124 Spider on PCP, but I will probably sell it before I move, as I cba driving it to London, making sure I find a flat with parking, etc. etc. After a few months, if I think I need/want a car, I think I'll buy a toy - something relatively cheap in cash probably with two seats and a big engine.
Is there any point though? Or will it just sit outside my flat doing very little as nobody in London needs to drive anywhere? Can you get in and out of the city on a weekend to things worth seeing without too much hassle? Or is it easier just to get the train and hire a car on the rare occasion I need one.
Saleen836 said:
Also remember the 'toy' will have to meet the new ULEZ criteria depending on where in London you chose to live
I thought that Greenwich etc would be outside it but actually from 2021 it will be inside it. Wouldn't want to buy a car I would find difficult to sell in a few years. That's painful. It means I can't buy what I want anyway. 
Unless I deliberately find somewhere to live outside it. Alex_225 said:
That was my thinking. I commute into the City by train and even as a pedestrian you can see that driving is not an ideal choice of transport.
If you are planning on driving out of London at the weekends and like NDA says, you have safe secure parking then it's an option. Depends how much time you spend outside of London.
I would walk to work, so it would only be for driving out of London at the weekends to do things, which I may do. Is getting in and out at the weekends a relatively painless task? If it would involve spending hours in traffic I probably cba. If you are planning on driving out of London at the weekends and like NDA says, you have safe secure parking then it's an option. Depends how much time you spend outside of London.
nurseholliday said:
Only you can answer that. Train/hire might be cheaper in the long run depending on how often you plan on getting out of London, but it's a lot of hassle and hire cars are boring.
It depends on how much you value owning a car you actually enjoy driving and how much you're willing to prioritise car ownership over other responsibilities. So, again, only you can answer this question.
Indeed. My intention had been to buy something interesting that won't depreciate - given I won't do many miles - and spend a bit keeping it in good shape. My relocation comes with a big salary hike so I can afford to buy something a bit more expensive to run. Maybe an Audi TT with the 3.2 V6, a 350Z, an Alfa with a Busso V6, a 3.0 Z4 or even push the boat out and get a Monaro with the V8...but ULEZ may put paid to that idea. It depends on how much you value owning a car you actually enjoy driving and how much you're willing to prioritise car ownership over other responsibilities. So, again, only you can answer this question.
nurseholliday said:
Currently both my cars fall foul of ULEZ and I'm in zone 2 so it's very much an issue for me. I've resigned myself to the fact that I can afford £12.50 every time I drive the track/fun car, it's going to be once a week tbh, maybe less sometimes. It's not going to cost £12.50 a day parked up.
So if the 124 doesn't excite you, and paying PCP on a car you barely drive doesn't make sense to you either, why not go for a fun car, and just know you'll be hit with a £12.50 charge when you want to drive it. Let's say you drive it once a week, that's less than a coffee a day during the week, and trust me if you're moving to central London, it's easy to get in the trap of buying coffee from a coffee shop. So save on coffee to fund the ULEZ charge and you're sorted.
I like the 124, but as you say no point spending 214pcm on a PCP deal on a car that I will barely drive, plus cba driving it all the way to London from Edinburgh, and I can likely get out of the deal without losing any money so makes sense. So if the 124 doesn't excite you, and paying PCP on a car you barely drive doesn't make sense to you either, why not go for a fun car, and just know you'll be hit with a £12.50 charge when you want to drive it. Let's say you drive it once a week, that's less than a coffee a day during the week, and trust me if you're moving to central London, it's easy to get in the trap of buying coffee from a coffee shop. So save on coffee to fund the ULEZ charge and you're sorted.
The areas I am looking at won't be ULEZ until 2021, which is a distance away, and I can always move outside the circular - Woolwich for example is less than 30 minutes on the DLR to CW.
So apparently Euro 4 onwards is fine for petrols.
Anyone know of any interesting large engined sports cars that are Euro 4 and sub 10k?
As you know I am not a Londoner, Greenwich seems pretty central to me! Within the M25!
Anyone know of any interesting large engined sports cars that are Euro 4 and sub 10k?
C70R said:
I've owned cars while living in Z1-2 over the last 5 years, and it's a mixed bag. I managed for 6 years prior to this without a car.
Parking can be a pain, and can be oversubscribed in places, but permits generally tend to sort this out. You need to accept that your car will probably get scraped, dinged or damaged (even by vandalism) at some point - there are 9m people in London, and plenty of ar5eholes. I wouldn't recommend owning something you're overly precious about.
For short journeys inside the M25 at weekends (or the occasional evening) Zipcar/van is excellent value and very convenient, and there are now plenty of 'Flex' cars available for those one-way trips. For journeys inside Z1-3, I can't see any reason to use a car unless you're in a weird public transport blackspot - there are almost always better options on public transport.
The reason I've owned cars in (relatively) Central London is twofold. Firstly I do a lot of weekend trips outside of London to see friends/family (at least every other weekend), and the convenience of having your own car for this outweighs the hire/Zipcar option. Secondly, I really enjoy driving, and am currently selling my 330ci (replaced as a runabout by a 225 hybrid) to buy another dedicated track car.
It's definitely not impossible to own and enjoy a car in London, but it's important to understand how you use it and the potential limitations.
Things I'd recommend doing, in order:
1) Scope parking availability and cost where you live. This might kibosh your plans.
2) Really think about the types of journeys you do, and whether they can be covered with Zipcar/hiring.
3) If you're remotely precious about cars, buy something you can own without worrying about.
4) Think about the cost against the amount of use, and whether it's money that could be better spent on having a great time in London.
Good luck.
(and, FWIW, Greenwich definitely isn't "Central London"
)
Thanks! Parking is definitely one reason I don't want to have a car when I move. It is more if I do have parking, then I can consider buying a car. The intention had been something interesting but older. As for 4) I can certainly afford it - but the question is would it be better to stick 200 quid a month more into saving to buy!Parking can be a pain, and can be oversubscribed in places, but permits generally tend to sort this out. You need to accept that your car will probably get scraped, dinged or damaged (even by vandalism) at some point - there are 9m people in London, and plenty of ar5eholes. I wouldn't recommend owning something you're overly precious about.
For short journeys inside the M25 at weekends (or the occasional evening) Zipcar/van is excellent value and very convenient, and there are now plenty of 'Flex' cars available for those one-way trips. For journeys inside Z1-3, I can't see any reason to use a car unless you're in a weird public transport blackspot - there are almost always better options on public transport.
The reason I've owned cars in (relatively) Central London is twofold. Firstly I do a lot of weekend trips outside of London to see friends/family (at least every other weekend), and the convenience of having your own car for this outweighs the hire/Zipcar option. Secondly, I really enjoy driving, and am currently selling my 330ci (replaced as a runabout by a 225 hybrid) to buy another dedicated track car.
It's definitely not impossible to own and enjoy a car in London, but it's important to understand how you use it and the potential limitations.
Things I'd recommend doing, in order:
1) Scope parking availability and cost where you live. This might kibosh your plans.
2) Really think about the types of journeys you do, and whether they can be covered with Zipcar/hiring.
3) If you're remotely precious about cars, buy something you can own without worrying about.
4) Think about the cost against the amount of use, and whether it's money that could be better spent on having a great time in London.
Good luck.
(and, FWIW, Greenwich definitely isn't "Central London"
)As you know I am not a Londoner, Greenwich seems pretty central to me! Within the M25!
Edited by Integroo on Monday 14th January 11:09
C70R said:
On-street parking is a doddle in most boroughs, and is just a case of paying a couple of hundred quid to the council for a year's permit. The cost thing is worth considering beyond your finance payments - my insurance is double what it would be if I lived in Surrey, and garage's hourly rates are significantly higher than out in the sticks...
Ofc, but honestly the cost won't be a problem. Sounds like parking won't be a problem given I won't be living in central London ( 
). Also it seems that Euro 4 is basically any petrol car less than 13 year old, so perhaps ULEZ isn't really a problem either! james_gt3rs said:
Euro 4 is apparently 2005-06 onwards, so plenty of choice for a fun car for 10k. Driving round London isn't that bad on a Sunday IMO, I'd use the tube for most journeys but going out of London I'd certainly want a car (and that's for practical reasons not just the mad petrolhead thing)
Yeah just realised that. 2006 5.7l V8 Monaro is ULEZ compliant ... (though, man maths, I can easily afford the repayments, and if it wouldn't depreciate ...). It probably wouldn't make sense to take out a loan though, so my list is currently 350Z, Alfa Romeo Brera 3.2 v6, Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 v6, Audi TT 3.2 v6. All available sub 5k and all ULEZ compliant.
EDIT: over 2k for me to insure a Monaro in Greenwich ... 1400 for the others ... could I afford it? Yes. Am I willing to spend over 100 quid a month insuring a car I'll barely drive? No. back to the drawing board ...
Edited by Integroo on Monday 14th January 12:18
gavsdavs said:
The point is, don't own a car in London if you don't *need* a car. Because
- inflated insurance
- Parking permits and having to park on road
- risk of vehicle getting damaged
- You aint' going to use it much anyway
- Why pay tax/insurance/MOT/Servicing/purchase cost if you can rent when you need a car anyway.
Owning a classic within the 2021 ULEZ boundaries is a completely different conversation. If you are moving into the zone and aren't wedded to a particular car, don't bother keeping it until you recognise you need one.
True, but there is a joy in owning an enthusiasts car which is what I will lose out on. There is an opportunity to own something interesting when one doesn't drive many miles and so things like mpg, reliability etc are less important. - inflated insurance
- Parking permits and having to park on road
- risk of vehicle getting damaged
- You aint' going to use it much anyway
- Why pay tax/insurance/MOT/Servicing/purchase cost if you can rent when you need a car anyway.
Owning a classic within the 2021 ULEZ boundaries is a completely different conversation. If you are moving into the zone and aren't wedded to a particular car, don't bother keeping it until you recognise you need one.
I didn't expect insurance on a 3.2 TT to be £1,500 though! That's a lot of wonga to spend insuring a car that's barely driven.
parabolica said:
I'm in central London and wouldn't be without my car. I don't need it for commuting to work, but for everything else...
FWIW I've had 2x 6 series and my current Z4 parked on the streets of London; never been damaged. Parking Permit in my neck of the woods is £35 for 12 months. The thought of having to drag home several bags of groceries from the nearest supermarket 2 miles away in the wet and cold is enough for me, especially as there is no bus service that runs in that direction.
I pay £220 odd quid for my parking permit at the moment! Insurance looks expensive for me but I am sure I can find something that's decent.FWIW I've had 2x 6 series and my current Z4 parked on the streets of London; never been damaged. Parking Permit in my neck of the woods is £35 for 12 months. The thought of having to drag home several bags of groceries from the nearest supermarket 2 miles away in the wet and cold is enough for me, especially as there is no bus service that runs in that direction.
My new employer actually offers a company car scheme but no doubt it is full of the same boring old four door German saloons.
gavsdavs said:
Integroo said:
True, but there is a joy in owning an enthusiasts car which is what I will lose out on. There is an opportunity to own something interesting when one doesn't drive many miles and so things like mpg, reliability etc are less important.
I didn't expect insurance on a 3.2 TT to be £1,500 though! That's a lot of wonga to spend insuring a car that's barely driven.
Of course, I'm not against owning a car in London, I'm just saying it's one of the few places you can avoid owning one and saving yourself some money. If you can get somewhere safe to park it and can get reasonable insurance, AND you get get something ulez compliant , do it I didn't expect insurance on a 3.2 TT to be £1,500 though! That's a lot of wonga to spend insuring a car that's barely driven.
C70R said:
Do they really offer a car scheme for London-based people to commute into town?
I seriously doubt it is for commuting - one would imagine that almost nobody commutes to Canary Wharf by car - but my contract does list a salary sacrifice car scheme as one of the benefits, through a company called Zenith. I imagine it will work out quite expensive for white goods motoring, but I don't know the details at the moment. coldel said:
I live zone 3 SW London - I own my car because
1. Its a passion and a hobby
2. I love driving it, its pretty quick and very rare and I love going to car meets in a car which isn't a run of the mill BMW or Audi
3. I can also do other stuff like shopping etc. as a bonus!
What do you want to use yours for OP is what I would be asking. From what I read you are not using it for commuting, nor menial short trips so you are looking for a car for fun. I think absolutely go for it if that's so, why should you not have a fun car just because you live in a city with loads of public transport, I don't generally find sitting on public transport an adequate substitution for a fun drive out You also miss out on a lot of stuff in and around London if you do not have a car.
This can be done sensibly too as you are showing, a few grand on a fun car, insure it and then swallow the normal associated costs. Personally if a parking permit is £100 a year (mine is £90) that's no worse than paying for a couple meals out and some beers, just spend a few extra nights a year in instead and then spend that money on your permit.
FYI 350z are at the bottom of the depreciation curve right now, you could pick up a decent bargain V6 engined care there.
I would use it for a) trips to the supermarket and b) weekend expeditions to the countryside, Stonehenge, the beach, etc. etc. I pay £220 a year atm for a parking permit so £100 is cheap! I will also have plenty disposable income in London so I think it probably sounds like I should just do it. 1. Its a passion and a hobby
2. I love driving it, its pretty quick and very rare and I love going to car meets in a car which isn't a run of the mill BMW or Audi
3. I can also do other stuff like shopping etc. as a bonus!
What do you want to use yours for OP is what I would be asking. From what I read you are not using it for commuting, nor menial short trips so you are looking for a car for fun. I think absolutely go for it if that's so, why should you not have a fun car just because you live in a city with loads of public transport, I don't generally find sitting on public transport an adequate substitution for a fun drive out
You also miss out on a lot of stuff in and around London if you do not have a car.This can be done sensibly too as you are showing, a few grand on a fun car, insure it and then swallow the normal associated costs. Personally if a parking permit is £100 a year (mine is £90) that's no worse than paying for a couple meals out and some beers, just spend a few extra nights a year in instead and then spend that money on your permit.
FYI 350z are at the bottom of the depreciation curve right now, you could pick up a decent bargain V6 engined care there.
2006 350z is ULEZ compliant so might be a shout!
gavsdavs said:
Not for long it isn't, there's this scheme that's looking to tax you £12.50 for simply starting the engine, if you hadn't heard about it.
My morning's research suggests that ULEZ does not apply to classics (cut off being 1 January 1980). Edited by gavsdavs on Monday 14th January 14:33
ZX10R NIN said:
Up two years ago I lived in Ladywell & enjoyed commuting on the bikes & enjoyed using the cars at the weekend, you can drive around London as long as you know the routes, also remember if you're in Greenwich you're 20 minutes from some fun roads around Kent with Brands Hatch being less than 30 minutes away.
For me despite Lewisham being a 5 minute walk away I never commuted as it was cheaper & quicker on the bike 20-35 minutes to Saint John St vs 45-60 minutes on the train.
So if you want a fun toy that you can commute on get yourself one of these:
I think that would be swiftly veto'd by my better half, but it's certainly tempting. For me despite Lewisham being a 5 minute walk away I never commuted as it was cheaper & quicker on the bike 20-35 minutes to Saint John St vs 45-60 minutes on the train.
So if you want a fun toy that you can commute on get yourself one of these:
Also I should add that Greenwich is only an idea - open to suggestions - ideally would be walking distance to Canary Wharf as my hours will be long, but happy with a short commute by tube / DLR / bicycle in the summer / Vespa (can you even park one at CW? do you need a licence?)
Edited by Integroo on Monday 14th January 16:48
cib24 said:
Are you a new front office analyst at an investment bank in the Wharf? If so, perhaps hold off on a car until you make VP and get better hours. Your life is going to suck for the next 5 years as you will be living to work rather than working to live. The money will be nice at least but you won't have a lot of time to spend it...
No, lawyer, couple of years qualified, so hours will be bad, but not as bad as an investment banker ... probably. RJG46 said:
High performance bikes don't make much sense with the ever increasing 20mph zones we now have.
If the OP likes cars I'm not sure why he'd buy a bike just because he'd moved to London. Not great for the weekly shop for one.
Biggest problem is I can't take my girlfriend to Stonehenge on one! If the OP likes cars I'm not sure why he'd buy a bike just because he'd moved to London. Not great for the weekly shop for one.
cib24 said:
Well, you have to wait for the bankers to come back to you with comments and suggestions so usually the lawyers work the latest unless you are a lawyer for a bank rather than a law firm!
Anyway, check out my post about living in Canary Wharf with a car for the past 7 years and using it primarily for weekends away and track days. It can work, but don't expect to drive it as much as you think you will when you first get it.
Law firm, but luckily I am not a banking lawyer, who certainly work the hardest! (Though I am under no illusions my hours will be long). Anyway, check out my post about living in Canary Wharf with a car for the past 7 years and using it primarily for weekends away and track days. It can work, but don't expect to drive it as much as you think you will when you first get it.
Thanks for the comments, definitely will take them on board.
cb1965 said:
It's not too late to change your mind. Don't move to London and keep enjoying your cars without worrying about parking permits, speed bumps everywhere, traffic gates (designed to keep alloy wheel companies in business), TfL's dishonesty about every journey mattering as they try to drive you off the road with ULEZs, stupid traffic restrictions and giving cyclists the priority over everyone else. HTH 
I might f
king hate it but hey it's something worth doing in your twenties - I can always move back North! C70R said:
Agree, if that's what you want to do with your weekends, but I know many people who rarely leave London at weekends.
The other point is that car ownership is definitely not essential if you wanted to do this.
I imagine getting out of London is something we will want to do. You can certainly get the train to the various places we would like to visit. I am sure a car would make it a lot easier and more enjoyable, however, provided I can get out of London without sitting in traffic for hours each way. The other point is that car ownership is definitely not essential if you wanted to do this.
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