Hybrid as a viable option for fun car?

[LasseV]

I did test drive Lexus RC300h and i did like it a lot. It wasn't fast, but it did have a good throttle response and linear powercurve with decent ooomph in mid range. (When using sports-mode) Chassis and suspension were more than good and turn in was sharp, so overall it was a great car. Surprisingly fun in the twisties, not old skool sports car fun but fun in a modern GT way: great grip, composure and nice amount of feedback. Cheap to run too, should be a reliable and and get a good mpg. I think this is a proper tool for long distance trips.

It did make me wonder.. I have driven several hybrids (and owned one) and they are generally very meh. Volvo's twin engines are lard ass cars which don't handle well. I think same goes for other marques plug in hybrids, they are too heavy and disconnected for a enjoyable driving moments. And their mpg drops badly when going for longer trips, so i don't see any reason to buy one.

This lexus thing was different… It really feels like it is modern day GT with all the good things from the new world wrapped in a beautiful package. Why is that? Was that car just so good that it didn't matter if it is a hybrid or not? It was so good that i'm thinking to sell my two cars and buy this. Never happened before…

What is your take? Can you imagine a hybrid for a fun car?

[LasseV]

Krikkit said:

Two reasons -
1) Lexus have spent a huge amount of time and effort making it drive properly, and have been developing "premium" hybrids like the LS600h, RX and RC's etc for years, something that other manufacturers haven't.
2) They managed to keep the weight sensible - despite being a hybrid it tips the scales at <1800kg, so it's competitive with a normal IC-engined car. That's why it doesn't feel leaden like most hybrids these days.

1) I think you are right. Car itself was a beautiful piece of kit and hybrid power train made it even better -for Europe at least. Before i did test drive hybrid version i was thinking about importing 3.5 v6 version from US to europe but i'm not sure anymore. Hybrid was fun and efficient- it feels good to know that fuel bills are small even for long trips. And gearbox was surprisingly good in every way.

2) Agree. For example I have driven Kia Stinger GT and this thing felt more nimble and better in corners/more connected than Kia- which is a good car in its own class. Lexus made a great job with this car.

Maybe next Lotus or GT86 will be a hybrid with good mpg/throttle response etc. There is definetly a lot of potential in non-plug in hybrids. It would be cool to test drive LC500h, but it is still a 100k car

[LasseV]

jamesbilluk said:

I ran an i8 for a while, and it was great fun, felt much faster than its numbers suggested, and sounded great, it was also a brilliant handling car, I used to take it out on a Sunday on my favourite roads frequently, it was an event getting to it as well, with the crazy doors, and it looked fantastic, it was lovely to see, when pushing it hard, it was still returning 30 plus MPG. I only sold it as I wasn't sure how it was going to work with a new baby arrival! (Terrible rear seats and the boots non existent) which was a shame, I would happily have another one though.

Well, damn. Which car replaced your i8? It is an interesting car.

I have owned 2+2 car for 5 years. It is hars reality that car needs to have usable rear seats and trunk. Luckily for me, both RC and my Supra offers that. i8 and Lexus LC500 are notch down for usability point of view as a daily driver.

[LasseV]

C70R said:

My 'sport' model plugin hybrid is a 4WD 'hatchback' with 230bhp/lbft, a tiptronic box and a turbo.

It's also dull as dishwater to drive.

I don't think any hybrid has yet been built with driving enjoyment as a priority.

TBH, that is a recipe for boredom- doesn't matter is it a hybrid or not. Combination of turbo lag, 4wd, vague steering feel and high weight makes driver more disconnected from driving. And i don't want that too much. Top of that, most cars which offers reasonable amount of performance doesn't deliver that good mpg.

I did test drive Golf GTI with DSG and it was a letdown for sure. It was a reasonable fast car, but sometimes gearbox was totally rubbish, throttle response was really laggy (Normal mode) and it wasn't that communicative nor comfortable. MPG wasn't stellar either. No way i would change my car(s) for this.

Test driving a lexus was totally different: i immediatly enjoyed rigid chassis and very supple suspension-great combination for real world driving and bad roads. Hybrid system didn't ruin this car and that was a big surprise for me. It feels little bit like driving an old v6 with autobox, nothing wrong about that. Linear power delivery is a good thing, sometimes it is nice to give some beans in middle of the corner etc. And this thing can do it + it gives very good mpg. In a way, i think hybrid system is this cars strong point.

Earlier today i was making a list about cars which i would buy with my own money for long trips across Europe. They were all hybrids. I think all of them combines the good things from new cars together and end product is higly enjoyable and efficient. Bad thing is that only RC 300h is cheap enough for me

My top choices for trip to Europe would be LC500h then i8 and RC 300h. It seems that I'm sold for hybrids.

Edited by LasseV on Tuesday 26th November 16:13

Edited by LasseV on Tuesday 26th November 16:14

[LasseV]

C70R said:

Have you actually driven any of those cars?

I only ask because the i8 is a 4WD, turbo hybrid with a tiptronic box. And the RC300h is a CVT auto that weighs almost 1800kg.

You probably wouldn't enjoy them. Unless, that is, you're just judging them on how they look.

Tbh, i know that driver involment has been lost long time ago - and it will never come back. However, there are some changes in my life which makes me think that i should sell my old cars and buy a new one. (With all the modern safety systems etc) Now i'm trying to find a modern car witch combines good mpg (low running costs) with reasonable performance and GT-like driving characteristic (even little bit of fun/ capable long trip car). Most modern performance cars does have bad mpg figures yet they are not that exiting overall, and that is little bit of disapointing. Yes, they are fast in straight line, but other than that they have usually left me cold. Now i'm talking about sensible priced cars, not 911/LC500/GranTourismo level cars.

[LasseV]

off_again said:

. But with the world going full electric,

That is one big problem. BEV cars are not good for longer trips.

[LasseV]

ZX10R NIN said:

Here are some sensibly priced Hybrids:

335i Active Hybrid:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Infiniti Q50h S

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Lexus GS450h F Sport

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I think i have to test drive GS450h althought im not that interested about big 4 door saloon. On the other hand, you never know. At least it offers good performance and lot of space. I have read that new GS is very good to drive. I think i also need to test drive IS300h again.

That BMW hybrid is quite odd. Real World mpg figures are not that good.

[LasseV]

C70R said:

So you're saying that my hybrid is a "recipe for boredom" (which I agree with - exactly why I own it), but these other cars which you admit to being the same in principle aren't?

I'm not sure you're making your point very well.

If we are comparing just power trains there are big differences:

RWD+2.5l n/a engine+CVT+non plug in hybrid system
4WD+turbo engine+automatic+plug in hybrid

It is matter of opinion which you prefer. Big thing is of course how well system is implemented to the car. I think lexus made a very good job.

Biggest thing is the car itself, obviously. Now we have a few interesting cars with decent/good hybrid powertrain, like LC500h/RC300h and i8/NSX. I think RC300h was an excellent car wich was fun enough. It was so good that i would never buy a RC200t (2.0 turbo+8spd aut). It doesn't sound better at all, real life performance is quite same'ish, mpg would drop dramatically and throttle response is more laggy. I think that is my main point, some of those hybrids are genuinely good drivers cars with very good mpg.

[LasseV]

underphil said:

With the IS300h in Sport mode - do you get simulated gear ratios that you can switch between with the paddles/stick ?

I have driven only new ones (model year 2019) and yes you have simulated gear ratios when you put gearbox to manual mode. Works pretty well, engine braking is surprisingly strong, so it is actually useful when driving faster in corners. I can't remember does it upshift/downshift automatically tho.