Diagnostics fee!!
Discussion
I know this is an old topic, but then years on, I still dont get why it is a separate charge.
Fair enough if you are asking for diagnostics alone, but if you are a regular customer and it is part of them doing the work?
ABS light on the e46 has come on, some googling later, 98% points to a sensor failure. Struggle to make time to spend the car myself, so into the garage it goes. I tell them the exact symptoms, and they agree it seems like a sensor failure. Front sensors are £36 and handed, rears are £60 and not.
Bill comes out at £135+vat, of which:
£36 is the sensor
£45 diagnostics fee
£54 therefore labour
£27 vat on top
£45+vat is £54
I can almost understand it back in the days where it was special new/rare kit, but 98% cars they see much have an obd port now, at which point it is as common as putting a car on the lift. Can you imagine if you went in for an exhaust at it had an extra £50 stuck on for 'use of a lift' as well as parts and labour?
Daniel
Fair enough if you are asking for diagnostics alone, but if you are a regular customer and it is part of them doing the work?
ABS light on the e46 has come on, some googling later, 98% points to a sensor failure. Struggle to make time to spend the car myself, so into the garage it goes. I tell them the exact symptoms, and they agree it seems like a sensor failure. Front sensors are £36 and handed, rears are £60 and not.
Bill comes out at £135+vat, of which:
£36 is the sensor
£45 diagnostics fee
£54 therefore labour
£27 vat on top
£45+vat is £54
I can almost understand it back in the days where it was special new/rare kit, but 98% cars they see much have an obd port now, at which point it is as common as putting a car on the lift. Can you imagine if you went in for an exhaust at it had an extra £50 stuck on for 'use of a lift' as well as parts and labour?
Daniel
Evercross said:
I sympathise with the OP to certain extent as there is an element of 'rent-seeking' going on with diagnostics. Various government bodies have put pressure on manufacturers to standardise diagnostic systems with varying levels of success (standard ports, locations, protocols etc.) but the manufacturers always look for ways of maintaining the closed-shop.
I guess one of the issuesJaredVannett said:
What's the subscription cost for AutoLogic Diagnostic Kits (Dealer level diagnosis) these days..... £16k?
I guess if it really is substantially more than that, a lift and the overheads on the roof over it, then maybe there is some logic between in effect taking it off the bill of and oil change or mot, routine service items that do not need that equipment.sjg said:
What if it wasn't a sensor?
Decent garages aren't using a £20 ebay special code reader either, it's Delphi or similar at 4-figures minimum for the kit and hundreds every year to keep it up to date.
But then if if it is actually just £8000 and £500 a year, thats back to the same point that I would personally expect it to be just part of the labour.Decent garages aren't using a £20 ebay special code reader either, it's Delphi or similar at 4-figures minimum for the kit and hundreds every year to keep it up to date.
Hard to know.
So I guess it comes down to; as a percentage of garages annual cost, how much is the diagnostics kit?
Daniel
Searider said:
dhutch said:
So I guess it comes down to; as a percentage of garages annual cost, how much is the diagnostics kit?
Maybe they should up their hourly rate to cover it to be able to not charge separately. £54/hr or £75/hr - which do you prefer?You are suggesting it is around 30% but it expect it is far less, if was say 5% then £54 becomes £57/hr.
If the question is would I rather pay £54/hour and a £45 surcharge or £57/hour for the my sensor then the latter.
Obviously my major service (oil, filters, plugs) is now £8 more for the extra labour, but sharing is caring!
WorldBoss said:
Diagnostics ? Blindly throwing any parts the scanner tells you have logged faults.
Even on something simple like an ABS sensor a good tech is going to want to at least visually inspect both ends of the sensor before ordering one....
Oh I mean yes, but I would expect that to be 'labour' but maybe the 'diagnostics' fee includes the labour for checking both ends.Even on something simple like an ABS sensor a good tech is going to want to at least visually inspect both ends of the sensor before ordering one....
If that where the case, and the machine cost was split into that that might make more sense. But as I understood it the £45 for for plugging in the machine, not inspecting the sensor etc.
Daniel
Aiminghigh123 said:
My local Saab indie doesn’t charge me if it’s in for a service. If I ask him to do a scan then yes he charges me about £30 but has wavered it when it’s something trivial. If it’s in for a service he does a scan anyway as it can have things hidden. He may add it the service cost (£90 as I supply oil) but never adds it separate.
Yeah, I mean that sounds fair enough.For balance, I have paid it, and I can afford it, and the service from this garage (new and recently moved) otherwise seems reasonable. But it is also become seriously steep when compared to the local BMW specialist and breakers I used to use.
This ABS sensor has been £160 round trip, at my previous garage I would expect (based on other similar work over the five years I used them) to be about half that. And they used to to code-read any fault for me while I waited without charge, presumably on the basis they where going to get the work one way or the other anyway because they knew me and knew I wasnt a chancer. They were also in the position to offer used parts and or had a huge stock of used parts to try for diagnostics to prove out the 'machines not always right' issues.
blank said:
£16k for a diagnostic tool is a hell of a lot. You could get a few different genuine manufacturer ones for that.
A decent multi brand one is more like £5k then £1k a year for updates.
Yeah, so there we go. As a percentage of annual costs for a garage with three general bays and an mot bay, 6 mechanics and two receptionists on the books.A decent multi brand one is more like £5k then £1k a year for updates.
thebraketester said:
Did you know which sensor it was that needed replacing?
I am guessing not, hence the diagnostic charge to find out which sensor it was that needed replacing.
I didnt know, and didnt spend any time looking at all.I am guessing not, hence the diagnostic charge to find out which sensor it was that needed replacing.
However having now picked up the car, I understand the cause of failure was mechanical damage due to a swelled abs ring. So it would have been posible to diagnose without a code reader. Obviously the code read, for which I have the printout, was able to tell them it was front left which is valuable and time saving information.
They are a bosch service place and used a 'ESI[tronic] 2.0' system.
The repair bill grew a further £20 since the start of the thread, the cost of the new ring, but this was fitted free of charge including cleaning up the hub. They also need to helicoil the thread for the sensor retaining bolt apparently. Which if nothing else is a very good reason to use the diagnostics port first rather than pull sensors at random to check for damage. 1hours labour for the whole job was £65.
For clarity, I am not even complaining about the total cost, certainly not for their being a labour cost to finding the fault. But that the cost of using the machine being billed out seems odd.
Say if the machine costs £1000 a year to run, based on figures banded around on here and my own googling, use it 25 times and it has covered all its costs and more. Even a small garage thats a tiny number of uses. I wouldn't be surprised if it covered its costs two weeks in, even with the labour for plugging it in.
Obviously if the £45 includes 20mins time spent removing the wheel and sensor (maybe even put the sensor on test?) to confirm that then maybe it is reasonable.
Certainly an hour to get it up, remove a wheel, remove a stuck sensor, pull the hub off, remove abs ring, clean up, fit new abs ring, hub back on and set, sensor thread helicoiled, new sensor in, plugged together, off the ramp, tested. Doesn't seem mad.
Either way, the lights have gone out and I have ABS and DSC back again in time for any snow merseyside might throw at us.
Daniel
mighty kitten said:
It I had a pound for every bm that’s had new rear sensors fitted to fix a rust swollen reluctor ring I’d have enough for a decent take away ??.
Front left in this case, rear sensors appear to be a bit dearer, but at £38 for the sensor it is not likely worth doing anything preventative bar maybe some atf 50!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff