Angry Passat Man...

[surveyor]

Have tonight been threatened with having my block knocked off by a bug eyed angry Passat man. Went 0 - 100 in about 15 seconds. Let me explain...

I approached this junction https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4927934,-1.8810343... from the B road, turning right onto the Woodhead Pass.



My work vehicle is this:

IMG_2148 by David Powell, on Flickr

Although it has back seat windows, they are smaller than they appear and their are large bits of bodywork restricting over the shoulder view.

My soloution therefore is on these type of junctions to swing right before swinging left, so that I am closer to perpendicular so that I can see traffic from both directions clearly.



Passat man had come from the direction that I was turning, and within 5 seconds was foaming at the mouth shouting and swearing.

So was what I was undoing unnecessary as he claimed? Am I a st driver? Thoughts...

PS The van in front of me had done the exact same thing...

[surveyor]

ging84 said:

Not sure I understand the issue

was he trying to turn down the road you were pulling out of but you were blocking his side a bit so he couldn't get through ?

Correct. Which also did kind of suit, as it fairly quickly slows up that carriageway and increases the chance of getting out onto a very busy road with a st junction.

[surveyor]

OlonMusky said:

Were you turning left (so doing a sort of u-turn) or right?

Right. The issue is seeing the traffic from the left. If I don't place myself on the road, it is very hard to get a clear view.

[surveyor]

rambo19 said:

I have to do this in my lorry quite regular, BUT, I wait until nothing is coming the other way.

I was in position waiting to turn before he showed up.... In terms of waiting for nothing coming - it's a busy road, and I had traffic behind me.

[surveyor]

OddCat said:

....but....but...but...you effectively turned an acute angle junction into a T Junction (so you could better see traffic coming from the left) by positioning your van in a way that blocked his path ?

Ths issue is whether he had a right to be annoyed rather than how annoyed he actually was ? I suspect the answer to the first part is 'yes'. What would have happened were there a constant stream of traffic from the left meaning you couldn't go ? Would he not have been left stranded on the main road ?

He was off the road into the turning. I'm not sure what my other option is, without going on blind hope. Eventually yes, that lane will slow or stop to the point that I can edge forward and only deal with the traffic from the left.

[surveyor]

Alucidnation said:

Surely if you stayed sort of parallel with the road, you could have used your left hand mirror instead of swinging out?

I think to see anything useful, I'm still going to be blocking the entry lane, and with an even poorer idea of what is coming from behind, not least that I know have a blind spot to contend with.

[surveyor]

OddCat said:

I wonder what Plod would say if, as he swung off the A road into the B road, the angry man had simply ploughed into the side of the OPs van rather than stopping. And angry mans dashcam clearly showed the OPs vehicle positioned in a way that was blocking his path. Just sayin'.

Having done 75k in 2 years, I quite fancy a change. Bring it on. Just aim behind my door please.

[surveyor]

Pesty said:

OddCat said:

Pesty said:

Where does it say he blocked traffic?

Not sure if serious?

Right back at you.

How to being squarer on to the line Instead of parallel with it mean he’s over it ?

One of us is misunderstanding it may well be me. But as somebody who exactly that on that same junction because straining to look over your shoulder isn’t the best without blocking anything in any way.
Unless the van has its ass into the next lane then yes I agree.

Op has my reading and comprehension failed did you block a lane?

As he could not squeeze past me, I would say so.

[surveyor]

Pesty said:

Then I change my mind and apologise to oddcat. I was picturing what I do.

Don’t block lanes I shall be going to Manchester tomorrow as I did yesterday. I shall look for your van and give you a stern look should our eyes meet.

Although getting so het up over that is not healthy and he probably needs to calm down. Don’t worry he will be having a heart attack soon so you win in the end.

So I should drive out blind?

PS your safe tomorrow. I'm staying home.

[surveyor]

Stella Tortoise said:

How are the many millions of drivers who either haven't read this thread or driven a Transit meant to know about this road blocking feature?

Perhaps there should be a government warning.

We don’t appear by magic. Opening ones eyes gives a clue.

[surveyor]

LeoSayer said:

How long were you blocking the road before Angry Passat man arrived?

I guess he's one of those 'know the road' types who uses the angle of the junction to keep up his momentum and got surprised by a van that 'shouldn't have been there'.

How would insurance / court have viewed this if Passat man had crashed into you? He would have had to cross dotted white (give way?) lines to crash into you.

Long enough. I waited for a gap in traffic before I positioned, just so that I did not accidentally and immediately present myself as a target for someone coming off at the junction.

[surveyor]

Mr_Megalomaniac said:

I think, if I understand the incident correctly here, Oddcat is on the money.

No doubt that angry Passat man was not justified in his response, so there's no defending his mental issues on that side of things.
But OP, if the vehicle creates an obstruction into the road, then surely that's a problem?

To put it another way and explain the logic for a moment, if I am proceeding along the road and a van pulls out from a junction on the right (turning to his left), but because of the length of his vehicle must pass into my lane to complete his manoeuvrer, then unless I respond by braking I'd impact, no? Same with a truck?
So the obligation would rest on the party pulling out of the junction to check both lanes of traffic are clear?

Now I understand the circumstances here are different being that you hadn't pulled out of the junction yet and therefore would not have caused an impact, but you may indeed have been blocking the other lane's right of way. Perhaps look for a different approach to solving the visibility challenge?

To those who say, it's a big vehicle, common problem, blah blah blah - if a vehicle doesn't suit a road then don't take the vehicle down that road. There's a reason articulated lorries don't go bandying about housing estates for fun.

The only lane I was affecting, was the traffic leaving the main road onto the side road. He should have been slowing anyway for that (although I accept stopping was not on his game plan). And he was not yet in view when I positioned myself. So I was there first. etc.

[surveyor]

OddCat said:

bern said:

No need for Passat man's rage. However, I use a very similar junction every day on the way to work. Approaching a main road from an acute angle and turn left almost back on myself. And almost every day see someone in front swing to the right for either better visibility or to be able to make the turn in something with a poor turning circle, pickups usually. And every time I wince because one day a car is going to turn off the main road on to 'our' road traveling at speed and have a rather large accident.

No bern, apparently it is behaviour that is absolutely fine. I mean, as mentioned by another contributor, who on earth would deliberately drive into a car blocking their path ? It wouldn't be the person blocking the roads fault. No sireee.

It's the road design. It's the vehicle manufacturer. It's the angry man whose path is blocked. It's the constant stream of traffic. It's always someone else's fault.

It's absolutely okay to inconvenience and endanger others as long as you're okay. Jack

Are you Passat man? My options here were do what I did, wait for a gap in the traffic coming from the right, position and hope there is a gap in the traffic from the left. There was not, hence I was in Passat man's way when he arrived?

Other options. Pull into a position where I have no visibility of traffic from the left and hope for the best, or wait for a huge gap in traffic which at rush hour on that road does not happen.

I'm alright Jack, so is Passat man (He had to wait 20-30 seconds), and so is the car that I did not crash into coming from the left.

[surveyor]

PorkInsider said:

This.

Passat man would have had a view of OP's position before he got close - anyone who knows the road at all would know it's narrow and you'd struggle to get behind anyone emerging perpendicular to Woodhead.

It's an absolutely stty road at the best of times - one of the most dangerous in the U.K. If a driver is getting angry at someone trying to get a good view to pull out of a bad junction onto it, I'd say they need to have a think about what they're wanting to happen instead because there have been some horrific collisions around that junction and the one half a mile from it (Holme Moss turn) that someone mentioned earlier.

By the way, If anyone watched Traffic Cops on Monday night, 1 of the crashes covered was within 1/2 a mile of the junction OP was at, and the bike one - where the Repsol paint job Honda went over the wall - was on the road OP was emerging from.

This one?

Officers attend the site of a horrific head-on collision involving a transit van and an HGV where the emergency services attempt to rescue the van driver from wreckage.

[surveyor]

DoubleD said:

Its a shame with things like this that we only get one side of the story. Unless the other guy is also on PH

I'd welcome his view. He went 0 - shouting and gesticulating in ten seconds.

[surveyor]

Scootersp said:

DoubleD said:

surveyor said:

DoubleD said:

Its a shame with things like this that we only get one side of the story. Unless the other guy is also on PH

I'd welcome his view. He went 0 - shouting and gesticulating in ten seconds.

Well yes exactly, that's your side of the story, his might be completely different.

The only way it can be different is if, passat man stopped, tooted and Surveyor gave him something from a shrug and body language of "what do you expect me to do" to the more coffee beans end of the spectrum, before he got full on triggered?

Other than that I can't see there's much room for ambiguity?

Indeed. I was satisfied he was slowing then turned my attention back to the busy road to get out of his way. It was his gesticulating which I caught out of the corner of my eye which surprised me.

[surveyor]

So.

A I did the right thing
Or
B I should have used the mirror which was pointing in the wrong direction
Or
C pulled out and hoped for the best
Or
D gone another way

Cheers PH... most options covered.

[surveyor]

FA57REN said:

Julian Thompson said:

Adding a few seconds to wait for a guy in a vehicle with restricted vision to negotiate a badly designed junction is really not going to make any difference. Passat man was wrong.

Why is Passat Man to blame for the failings of the OP's vehicle?

Change the scenario from crew-cab Transit to an estate with a pair of mattresses stuck in the back. "Yes your Honour, I was unable to see clearly in my nearside rear quarter due to my load so I obstructed the oncoming lane to see better." == Guilty as Charged

Don't put other road users in danger due to your choices.

He was not in danger. He was off the main road.

[surveyor]

PorkInsider said:

poo at Paul's said:

I drive a LWB van with no rear windows and indeed a passatt!!

No need for his rage response but I can see why it may have been dangerous, him left sticking out into a 60mph or whatever road, because you are blocking his way. Its difficult, but when I need to do similar, I try to get a look at what's going on from the left as I drive up, a feel for how busy it is. If it seems busy I would have held short to try to look for a potential gap from my left, in the mirror, allowing unencumbered access to oncoming turners, when see a suitable possible gap, check clear for ongoing and then make the manouver. It may still backfire and not work out, but limits that risk.
Its a ball ache in a big van, I have had to remove seatbelt, get up and look out the pass window make sure there's huge space and jump back in seat and go out blind before, horrible feeling.

Some good ideas but looking left as you approach that junction would only be useful if you wanted to admire the solid stone wall as you come up the hill to it, unfortunately.

And when you do get to the junction, you have to see a gap and go immediately, not climb back over to the driver's seat, as there's limited visibility due to the bend in the road. You only have a few seconds of visibility in reality.

All in all it's a really crap bit of road, to be honest, and I'm always very cautious around those couple of junctions. There's a limit to what you can do to make it safer when trying to emerge.

That van is doing the same as what I ddI. Mine is a little longer hence my rear end overhanging the lane.