Does the history of a marque matter in the least??
Discussion
Let's be honest:
The Porsche independent company is gone. Just VAG
JLR is a foreign subsidiary
Bentley and RR are German,( so is Mini).
Aston is foreign owned and has had lots of component-sharing
One can look around and know the magnificent history of companies that were once truly independent....Ferrari, Maserati, Lotus and so on.
Therefore, it seems very logical to simply take each new model as it is.
New, no history, nothing to do with some romantic ( or even awful) past. Just a piece of engineering. A Tesla has the same brand value as a Caterham ( really a Lotus 7
.
I fail utterly at this because I do value the past of a given brand.
My particular bias is Porsche, but it does not matter. For me, I like to trace the car I drive back to more primitive times. I enjoy understand the development of the brand knowing fully that it is a cross-platformed vehicle in some cases.
Logically it is nonsense, but I still do it.
I have had a few of the Porsche family sign some of my cars, which is nice, but in the end the car bears zero DNE from panelbeaten 356s from Gmund.
Of course there are cars that are genuinely attached to their origin - I think of a Koenigesseg where the founder and developer is an actual person, but that is far beyond my means.
My question is:
What are the brands today that are authentic possessors of history and can connect back to their founding visionaries??
The Porsche independent company is gone. Just VAG
JLR is a foreign subsidiary
Bentley and RR are German,( so is Mini).
Aston is foreign owned and has had lots of component-sharing
One can look around and know the magnificent history of companies that were once truly independent....Ferrari, Maserati, Lotus and so on.
Therefore, it seems very logical to simply take each new model as it is.
New, no history, nothing to do with some romantic ( or even awful) past. Just a piece of engineering. A Tesla has the same brand value as a Caterham ( really a Lotus 7
.I fail utterly at this because I do value the past of a given brand.
My particular bias is Porsche, but it does not matter. For me, I like to trace the car I drive back to more primitive times. I enjoy understand the development of the brand knowing fully that it is a cross-platformed vehicle in some cases.
Logically it is nonsense, but I still do it.
I have had a few of the Porsche family sign some of my cars, which is nice, but in the end the car bears zero DNE from panelbeaten 356s from Gmund.
Of course there are cars that are genuinely attached to their origin - I think of a Koenigesseg where the founder and developer is an actual person, but that is far beyond my means.
My question is:
What are the brands today that are authentic possessors of history and can connect back to their founding visionaries??
I think it is sort of illogical myself, but I have heavily researched the history of the various marques that I have repeatedly bought and have a ridiculous number of history and model books ( including the less savoury aspects of the histories) , and visited the various museums, met the drivers and sometimes the designers and principals, none of which makes a car one bit better than another. Have had some interesting people drive them and now and then sign them...
Dr Wolfgang Porsche signed my 991RS at his house:
Had it meet with the TYP 64 in Hamburg:
Vic Elford and Hurley Haywood did the same with my 7RS
Sabine and others drove my 7.2RS at the Ring:
It gives me some perspective, even though I am well aware that the current cars are now VAG products. I still have a couple that were designed when Porsche was a completely independent company.
Looking back, I did exactly the same obsessive research on BMW and Mercedes in the past, got into some to hhe non-public areas and archives.
Right now I am slowly accumulating stuff on Jeep, God help me.
Dr Wolfgang Porsche signed my 991RS at his house:
Had it meet with the TYP 64 in Hamburg:
Vic Elford and Hurley Haywood did the same with my 7RS
Sabine and others drove my 7.2RS at the Ring:
It gives me some perspective, even though I am well aware that the current cars are now VAG products. I still have a couple that were designed when Porsche was a completely independent company.
Looking back, I did exactly the same obsessive research on BMW and Mercedes in the past, got into some to hhe non-public areas and archives.
Right now I am slowly accumulating stuff on Jeep, God help me.
rosetank said:
No. You buy what best fits your requirements. To be honest Porsche are one of the worst for milking their loyal fan base, I buy a car because I like it, not for some spurious reason.
Well, of course. Edited by rosetank on Sunday 23 February 17:49
I used to drive M BMWs when they were more edgy, responsive cars. I liked the marque and the service, but most of all they were a blast to drive on road or track. I moved only because my personal driving requirements were less satisfied by later models.It was not a brand decision.
Equally I drive a Jeep because it suits my off-roading needs better than anything else for the price.
I like to research any marque where I am a repeat buyer, but even then, most of the models in any. year are of zero interest to me.
Heritage seems to me to be less about age than meaningful history. Lexus IS a great example. New marque that made an immediate impact. Does not have to have started in 1930.
Tesla is a brand that is cutting a wide swathe. It is an important brand and we would not be wise to ignore it.
Tesla is a brand that is cutting a wide swathe. It is an important brand and we would not be wise to ignore it.
Like pretty much all of the industrialists and business people in Germany under the Third Reich, the Porsche family supported the regime. They were not egregious fanatical Nazis, and as previously noted avoided any wearing of uniforms. It is however true that Ferdinand Porsche was utterly indifferent to the fate of the slave labour in the factory at Wolfsburg where the VW factory was built ( and which also turned out military items during the war).
The Porsches was less committed than some such as the Quandt family who owned BMW for instance. On the end they were not personally involved in specific actions on individuals. There was not serious attempt to persecute them; Ferdinand Porsche was held for a while by the French after the war, but I thing his daughter paid off some bribes to get him released.
Both father and son knew Hitler, and Hitler agreed to finance the Auto Union racing team in the Thirties after a visit from Ferdinand Porsche and Hans Stuck Sr.
My sense was always that they were somewhat opportunistic and figured out it was better to support the regime rather than fight it. In my view this was the attitude of the entire German industrial establishment. Ferdinand Porsche had been building military equipment for Germany even in WW.1 and was quite old by 1945 and the fall of the Third Reich. I doubt if you will find many people from the 1933-45 period in German business who actively fought the Nazis.
The Porsches was less committed than some such as the Quandt family who owned BMW for instance. On the end they were not personally involved in specific actions on individuals. There was not serious attempt to persecute them; Ferdinand Porsche was held for a while by the French after the war, but I thing his daughter paid off some bribes to get him released.
Both father and son knew Hitler, and Hitler agreed to finance the Auto Union racing team in the Thirties after a visit from Ferdinand Porsche and Hans Stuck Sr.
My sense was always that they were somewhat opportunistic and figured out it was better to support the regime rather than fight it. In my view this was the attitude of the entire German industrial establishment. Ferdinand Porsche had been building military equipment for Germany even in WW.1 and was quite old by 1945 and the fall of the Third Reich. I doubt if you will find many people from the 1933-45 period in German business who actively fought the Nazis.
heebeegeetee said:
In answer to the OP, I find the history of Porsche to be fascinating, I might only own an old 986 but when I look at pictures of the first Porsche road car, I smile.
I share that interest, and if you look at Ferdinand Porsche's history , he was building cars since 1900 and had a huge and distinguished career long before 1933, including being chief engineer for Austro-Daimler and Mercedes;.I in no way deny his connection to the Third Reich , but it was more mercantile than conviction.
The Porsche company itself was only formed in 1948, so its production and design is postwar, although of course clearly derived initially from the Porsche-designed Beetle. As an engineering and motorsport company it has a lot going for it.
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