The "best" affordable sports car of the last 20 years?

[white_goodman]

We live in very life-affirming times. It's easy and natural for us to want to constantly better our lives but in times like these it makes you realise what's really important: family, health, a home, access to enough food and medicine, a steady income (whether you enjoy your job or not), so stay safe everyone and I hope that we all ride out this crisis together. That being said, it has also made me think that life is fragile and perhaps one shouldn't put off to "tomorrow" what could be done today, so to that end, if I survive this crisis physically and financially, maybe I should finally go out and buy that sports car that I've been promising myself for years?

I've been thinking about this for a while to the point that my old car (R56 MINI Cooper) broke and I had to get a new one (Golf Estate) back in the autumn. At the time, we were also considering downsizing the main family car (Grand Voyager) to an estate/crossover, so although we still have the Grand Voyager, my wife likes the Golf and it would be a perfectly good replacement and then I could get my sports car!

The "sensible" choice would be a GT86/BRZ. I've liked the look/idea of these since they came out. They're down to my budget now on the used market (sub 15k), relatively new, so should be fairly cheap to run and reliable and having driven one, it's fairly practical and has rear seats that my young children could just about fit into. It's a low rent interior for sure but I quite like the "old-school" feel, the chassis is sublime and the driving position etc is spot on. Performance seemed perfectly acceptable to me and I think that I'd like to keep it NA but would probably be looking into a remap to maximise what I have and eliminate that torque dip. For a similar budget, the other options that I keep coming back to are the mk7 Fiesta ST or an early M135i. Both quicker and more practical and the M135i is also RWD but supposedly not the best chassis and although more premium inside than the Toybaru, it's a hatchback (and I've had a lot of those) and not a sports car, so I don't think it'll feel quite as "special".

GT86/BRZ seems like a pretty good option then but is it my "dream" sports car and the most "special" car available for my budget? Probably not. Depreciation will also be heavier than something older. Although I'm a huge fan of the genre, I'm sad to say that my sports car driving experience is limited to a mk2 MX5 that I owned for 9 months and short drives in my dad's mk3 MX5, the GT86, MGFs/TFs and mk1 SLKs.

I know that there's lots of collective sports car driving/owning experience on here, so I was wondering what the PH consensus was on the "best" affordable sports car of the last 20 years to:

1) own and live with as a daily driver;

2) enjoy sparingly (mainly on the road) just for pure driving pleasure (I could get something a bit more focussed that would be a pain to live with as a daily and buy another decent but cheap (2k?) car to handle the everyday grind).

The definition of a sports car often gets a bit blurred on here but I would define it as definitely RWD, probably manual, probably 2 seats (although there are exceptions, I consider the GT86 to be a sports car for example), coupe or cabriolet and more focussed on sportiness than luxury. Weight often gets brought in too but a lot of modern cars are quite heavy, so I would say compactness is more important, as you want to be able to exploit it on a narrow B-road, which is difficult to do in a lot of larger, high performance cars. Although my personal budget would be not more than 15k, I would also welcome people's perspective on some of the newer, highly-hyped "sports cars" like the Alpine A110 and Alfa 4C. On the one hand, I love the exotic looks and lightweight ethos of these two but I wonder whether the rather ordinary 4-pot turbo motors and flappy paddle gearboxes on these two detract from the "sports car experience", even though the performance and handling capability is clearly there.

So I guess it comes down to cars like the MX5 (multiple generations), MR2 roadster and MGF/TF, which are cheap, plentiful and cheap to run but probably not "special" enough.

Caterhams/Westfields, great fun but possibly a bit too focussed for me. Elise would be better and has appeal but maybe still better as a weekend car than a daily driver?

I've lusted after all of these at some point: Honda S2000, Nissan 350Z, Mazda RX8 R3, BMW Z4 Coupe/Z3M Roadster, Boxsters/Caymans, SLK55 AMG, all more "special" than the GT86/BRZ and less depreciation but undoubtedly more expensive to run.

I think a decent Porsche 911 (997) would be over my budget (20k+?) but it is a "gold standard" amongst sports cars and I would be interested to see how others think it compares to the other cars mentioned above.

So, what in your opinion is the "best" affordable sports car of the last 20 years:

A) as a daily proposition and
B) in terms of a purely joyful driving experience?

Edited by white_goodman on Tuesday 24th March 19:36

[white_goodman]

SidewaysSi said:

Elise. The end.

Get a 111S or 111R if you want something sensible and useable.

That's an S2 presumably? 111S is K-Series and 111R Toyota engine? Can you get decent ones for sub 15k?

[white_goodman]

Appreciate all the replies, will block reply rather than reply to each of you individually.

986 Boxster S, love them...it was the "one" for me for a long time and was even looking at them with a view to a purchase about 10 years ago but then we fell pregnant, so the Boxster S became a WRX Wagon! A friend in the "know" says I should get a 987 instead, which for some reason I never liked as much because 986s are a bit "crap" but very cheap now, so scope for a decent "slush" fund for the Boxster and a decent hot hatch for the day-to-day stuff within the budget. Still a very useable car for daily duties in nice weather though (the Boxster).

Z4M is gorgeous and one of the last good-looking BMWs IMHO but reviews seem very polarising. Who wouldn't want something with that engine but I expect running costs are a bit of a step up from the 3.0?

Was actually thinking about VX220s earlier but forgot to include them in the list. Would have to be the Turbo though, as this was the VX's USP over the Elise and I think the Turbos are a bit more money? Still a nice looking car but the Elise is prettier and if I was choosing between a 2.2 VX220 and an S2 Elise, for this reason, I would probably go Elise. Nice Elise in the ad. 18 years old! Still looks really fresh though to be fair. Why would you put the Elise above all others?

Nissan GTR is a bit of a "dream" car to be fair. For that level of performance, I guess they are fairly affordable but is it really a sports car?

ETA: someone mentioned the S2000. I'm a bit of a Japanese performance car fanboy to be honest and lapped up the recent S2000 thread but some said that it's a bit of a pain to live with on a daily basis. Lots of engine/wind noise on the motorway etc. To be honest, it's the S2000, 350Z and RX8 R3 that are really tempting me away from the "safe" choice (GT86). The RX8 has its own set of problems...

Edited by white_goodman on Tuesday 24th March 19:30

[white_goodman]

cerb4.5lee said:

Whilst not the "best" I'd give a shout out to the 350Z/370Z. I've had my 370Z Roadster almost a year now(slightly modded to improve the noise it makes) and I still absolutely love it.

Even new the 350Z was recognised as being an excellent affordable sports car against its rivals. I've also had a Z4M Roadster and while I did like its on paper ingredients...I felt that the suspension/ride and gearbox spoilt it somewhat.

The GT86 is also a car I'd love to have one day for sure. A Lotus Elise is another car that I'd love one day too, and I only have to stand next to one and I want to just jump in and drive it.

Always had a bit of a thing for the 350Z to be honest. It and the RX8 had just come out when I got my MX5 but both sadly out of budget. Love that burnt orangy colour on the early 350Zs and the "deep-dish" wheels. Never liked the styling of the 370Z as much for some reason, although I'm sure it's a better car in every respect. I think it was maybe because I think it looked a bit dated even when it was brand new. Of course the 350Z looks dated now too but "of its time". That being said, the 370Z Roadster really looks rather nice, whereas the 350Z Roadster always looked a little awkward. If we're talking coupe though, it's still the 350Z for me.

[white_goodman]

SidewaysSi said:

I have driven pretty much all the cars being discussed and for me it's the Elise because it handles, steers and communicates like no other.

The one linked also has the major jobs done - important you drive a fit one, though that goes without saying for any car of this age. You can't look at how old these cars are as it has little bearing on condition.

Buy a good one and you will keep it forever. And wonder why you didn't do it years ago...

I have an S1 which is completely transformed from its standard spec and it is an utter joy. Sharp, intense, wild. It's never leaving my ownership as long as I am here and I don't care what happens to the value of it - I bought it because for me it's the epitome of the useable lightweight sports car and I will drive it till I can no longer.

I respect that. Thanks for the explanation.

[white_goodman]

Pericoloso said:

FIAT Barchetta ,much better than the haters think.

But just ignore me.

Lovely looking thing. Appeals more to me than an MX5/MR2/MG to be honest despite FWD.

[white_goodman]

Mr Tidy said:

I think it depends on your definition of "sports car" to be fair.

Ultimate road car/track day weapon probably an Elise or VX220.

Vaguely practical then a 350Z/370Z or BMW Z4 Coupe works pretty well. I had two 3.0Si BMW Z4 Coupes for 5+ years and loved them! But in December I bought a Z4M Coupe and it's just fantastic - so time for a gratuitous photo I suppose.

Although I'd never claim it was the best affordable sports car of the last 20 years, just the one I like best!




More practical would be a GT86, but I drove a couple of them before buying a Z4 Coupe and while they handled really well for me they just lacked a bit of grunt.

Lovely looking car. I'd go as far to say one of the best-looking cars of the last 20 years. I like the wheels. Are they OEM? They look a bit E46 M3 CSL-like...

[white_goodman]

Stinkfist said:

Yes strange times indeed

Since passing my test some 36 ago I too recently went through the same dilemma. TBH I really didn’t set out to buy a sports car! Unlike many posters already I haven’t driven that many different vehicles and although I am passionate about driving I’m not overly obsessive about cars in general. That probably makes me pretty unqualified to give you an opinion but as I now own one of the vehicles you mentioned this is just my take on answering your question

In an ideal world we would have a vehicle for every occasion and although some are fortunate to make that a reality most of us have to make compromises. For me that meant always requiring interior space and AWD and to a large extent most of the vehicles I’ve owned have been estate cars/wagons. But since I was in my mid 20’s I promised myself one day I would get myself a small RWD sport car.

Well that day came early in 2018. I guess good experiences with certain brands can be persuasive in determining your next purchase and so it was with mine. My Legacy Spec B H6 engined wagon had been with me for almost 10 years and as it had been one of those vehicles that never played up and did so many things supremely well, I was planning on keeping it. However within a very short space of time circumstances took a weird curve and we upped and relocated. In new surroundings (rural) my wife suddenly agreed to drive a larger vehicle which she had been reluctant to do until then so the legacy was sadly sold on and all of a sudden I was in the position you find yourself in now. My budget was also £20k

With a few exceptions I had also considered many of the vehicles you mention. What I personally had to take into consideration was ground clearance due to access and I didn’t want anything to old as I no longer had a garage to work in.

Having a racetrack a mile up the road also came in very handy. I spent a great deal of time talking to owners about their choices and drew up a shortlist. Although I could have been tempted by a FWD talking to these enthusiasts convinced me it must be RWD

After a few test drives I concluded I was just too tall for an MX5 so that was out, I had a ridiculously short test drive in an unloved 2014 BRZ but it was an auto as it was the only one they had. The Z4 did not feel nimble enough and I just never got to drive a decent enough 350Z. I missed out on a Z3 roadster drive by a few hours and even considered upping my budget on a 718!

What really clinched it was an extended test drive on my own. It was getting to the point where I had toyed with spending just a fraction of my budget on an older track prepped car. A passenger ride round the track convinced me this option wasn’t going to be a realistic proposition for the road or my back! Then out of the blue I had a capricious moment whilst passing a Toyota dealer who had a 5 year old Porsche Cayenne sat on the forecourt. Jesus, what am I doing, I though as I sat sipping coffee with the rep. This wasn’t in the plan! We have a mini monster truck at home already. I’m a dead man if I come home with another! Whilst pondering this obvious dilemma I noticed a GT86 brochure on his desk. It was for the revised and mildly updated 2017 MY facelift. As I mentioned I had already tested an auto BRZ. What I wasn’t aware of was that many of the mild revisions looked at least on paper to be big improvements. Better damping, much better ICE and at least in this dealership a manual. Unfortunately the car had just been sold but I had at least had a good look over it. The only thing that looked worse cosmetically was the front end. More stock was due in so after departing I did a quick tinterweb search and a 2017 facelift BRZ has just come in at a Subaru dealership. It was a fair trek but a phone call later determined I could take it for a test drive for a few hours.

In that time I made my mind up. IMO the BRZ facelift version was much the better looking now. It had a few issues I didn’t like at first but after half an hour blasting around rural A roads they really didn’t matter. The interior is extremely dated, the rear seats are really only good for throwing a jacket or coat on, the switchgear looked compatible with my old Forester XT and that torque dip can be bloody annoying. The engine really does have to be worked hard but that’s what makes it feel so engaging. The steering is sublime, even more so when you realise it’s electric. The gear change and clutch action at speed is perfect, the seats are comfy whilst also being adequately supportive. The seating, pedal and wheel positions are by far the best of any of the vehicles I test drove. Visibility is fantastic and the little bulges over the front wings really do aid positioning the car in the corners. The damping is much improved over the original model but I suspect the one I drove was also a little tired in that department. After original research the twins also have the benefit of a huge selection of aftermarket goodies so much can be improved on if so wished. Lastly it really is a good looking little car. It’s proportions are just right

Anyways I digress. I can’t sleep so apologies I’ve waffled on enough

So regards to your questions, does it work as a daily driver? Probably not. You need to be pretty supple to get in and out of it. At town speeds both the throttle response and clutch can spoil things a little and if motorway commuting is necessary it won’t impress. It’s noisy and even though the head unit is new the sound quality is appalling!
As for pure driving pleasure it’s simply a delight

I left mine completely stock for 12 months so I got to learn what it was capable of and so I could decide if it was worth throwing money at it. With a set of Pilot Sport 4’s and an updated set of discs and pads it performed well on the track for short sessions

Since then I have treated it to a set of aftermarket wheels, a set of Ohlins R &T coilovers, adjustable top mounts along with all the other necessary suspension alignment additions. This has had a massive improvement over the stock set up whilst still giving you the option to maintain the ride height. Manifold, exhaust and Racerom ECU tune were on the cards as is a BBK but that will have all have to wait for now????

So yes, i think you have guessed, I would thoroughly recommend one

Edited by Stinkfist on Wednesday 25th March 06:35

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Thanks for sharing. Similar experience. My last 10 years of motoring have been mostly mundane family-friendly stuff but there was a WRX Wagon thrown in there too. I've certainly driven much faster cars than the GT86/BRZ and it's certainly not perfect but it's the first car that I've driven in ages that has taken me back to the pure joy of driving in the early days that I got from cars like my 205 GTi and even my mum's Fiat Cinquecento Sporting 20+ years ago! Probably not as comfortable a daily as my current Golf but a lot more involving and I think that it rode a lot better than my previous MINI Cooper. The car seems a lot more in keeping with Toyota's heritage and a bit oddball for a Subaru (no AWD and no turbo) but it does look great in the blue and I do have more of an affinity for the Subaru brand. I loved my WRX and would have happily replaced it with a Forester XT or Legacy Spec B Estate but I needed something newer and Subaru seemed to stop making interesting cars. Even the new WRXs don't seem to have the same appeal as the classic/"Blobeye"/"Hawkeyes".

[white_goodman]

so called said:

Simples,

What TVR is that? I would have said Tuscan but I thought the Tuscan was a coupe. I loved TVRs as a boy but running costs/reliability? Are the V8 cars, so probably a Chimaera at this kind of budget the best bet? The only thing is I'm not sure how useable one would be as a daily driver and a decent one would probably be right at the top of my budget? Would be an absolute blast just for fun driving though.

[white_goodman]

cerb4.5lee said:

It is a Tuscan 2(later facelift Tuscan) and I believe that they did both the Targa and Convertible model with it.

I personally prefer the cleaner front and rear of the Tuscan 2 to the original as well.

You used to have a Cerbera right? Expensive car to run if I remember rightly?

[white_goodman]

cerb4.5lee said:

Yes and I did and I had it for 6 years. The Cerbera 4.5 I had is widely regarded as the most expensive TVR to run. I loved it too bits, but with hindsight I reckon that financially I would have been better off going for the Chimaera instead as my first TVR.

Why is that? Was the Cerbera their first "crack" at their own engine? Cool car though. That and the Tuscan were my favourite TVRs. I still remember the Cerbera trouncing the establishment costing double the money in that old Clarkson vid (although many said they cheated). Was this the only ever 2+2 TVR?

[white_goodman]

Enut said:

I have owned a 2017 GT86 for nearly 3 years now. It is a truly exceptional car and IMO the best 'affordable' sports car. Although I'll admit I haven't driven any of the others on your list! I have done about 19,000 miles in the GT86 so although not high mileage, it is my daily.

It is ideal for UK roads as you can have great fun driving it at 70%, above that you can still have fun without killing yourself or losing your licence. Mine came with Yokohama tyres and drives much better than than those on Primacies going by the feedback I've seen.

There are a few things that aren't absolutely ideal 'out of the box' but these can be rectified.

The torque dip, quite noticable between 3 - 5,500 rpm but can be sorted with a new manifold, filter and tune. I had mine done by Tuning Developments and it transforms the car, no more torque dip, an extra 20 or so bhp and improves fuel efficiency by about 15% in my experience. I get about 35 mpg but can be as good as mid 40's on long motorway runs.

The 'lack of power', you might see this mentioned but it really isn't a problem, the GT86 is much more about the fun of going round corners and 0-60 times. Anyway the TD package sorts it anyway to a certain extent. If you really want more power then you can supercharge or Turbocharge it.

The sound system, not Toyota's forte, it's pretty horrid but can be massively improved by replacing the speakers with a 'plug and play' set of Focal speakers for about £120.

Gear change when cold, Many, mine included can be awkward to get into 2nd when cold. Can sometimes be helped by changing the gearbox oil but I haven't bothered, I simply use it to tell me that it isn't warmed up yet, once warm the gear change is brilliant, although I did have the MTec spring shifter fitted when I had the engine tuned, which has made it even more precise.

Road noise, if your daily use includes a lot of motorway driving then this could be an issue, it is quite a noisy cabin. Can be improved by a bit of sound deadening but it's never going to be a quiet cruiser.

Reliability, it's a Toyota with a 5 year waranty, nothing to worry about here!

Hope that helps.

This is certainly sounding like the "head" and the "heart" choice. As I already said, not many new cars come out that I "want" these days but this is certainly one of them. I remember reading somewhere that you could get the torque dip mapped out but couldn't remember who did it, so thanks for the reminder. Where are they based?

[white_goodman]

Stinkfist said:

In Warrington. www.tuningdevelopments.uk

Plenty of tuning package options

OK thanks, I think that Fensport might have been the other one that I read about.

ETA: 1500 notes sounds like decent value. How much is yours putting out after the tune? Did you go with the equal or unequal length headers?

Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 26th March 17:55