Morrison's diesel (again!)

[pjramsey]

I know there are some old threads on this but wanted opinions again.

I have a aging 200k Civic 2.2 which drives perfect and over the last 100k miles since owning I have averaged over 60mog.

I do the same 280 mile round trip each week mostly motorway miles on cruise control at just over 70mph. 99% of the time I fill up at Adds. This week I filled up at Morrison's and the mpg dropped to 56. The car also felt sluggish and non responsive. It was fine on the 140 miles for the first leg.

Fully know that all the fuel comes from the same refineries with the difference being additives and the bio diesel content which I believe can vary between 5 and 7%.

Obviously going to go back to my normal Asda brand and compare but wanted to know if recently if anyone else had the same experience. Could just be a bad tanker batch, my Ecu or car not liking a different bio mix or.... My car is due for a change!

[pjramsey]

Good call regarding the a/c but no. Had it during the journey there 63mpg. Filled up and same journey back 56!

I have read quite a few other posts and just think the car doesn't like whatever mix of diesel Morrisons has. Cheers for reply.

[pjramsey]

Tonynor. Thanks for the reply. This is what I suspected especially after reading various other threads. I expect it comes down to the tolerances on the ECU and MAF sensor and how much it can adjust around the different diesel mixes. I know my car pretty well as I drive 25k per year, mainly the same journey, and it just didn't feel right.

I was starting to think my old heap of junk (which is actually one of the most reliable cars I have had!) was getting near it's sell by date. Will wait until the next fill up and hopefully my trusty piece of Japanese engine will last a bit longer.

[pjramsey]

Thanks puddenchucker. Don't think I will be going back to Morrison's anytime soon! I expect people don't notice a difference if a) they don't have a regular commute or b) they have larger engined less economic cars. Obviously a 5 to 10% difference on 65mpg is far more noticeable than if you had say a 3litre diesel that only did 40mpg.

Irony was that I only went to Morrison's as the A12 was messed up. My normal fill up station was actually cheaper!

[pjramsey]

Sorry Benrad. Fully understand what you are saying and respect your profession but no. I have driven my car over 100k miles and in hotter weather than this week. AC has been on before and no noticable difference in economy. Car was on constant motorway driving which generates air flow as you are probably aware. Have only ever had the fan on a few times and that was in a traffic jam. My temp gauge never moves and although the car probably could do with a coolant flush you have missed one piece of evidence being it was fine before I filled up. Just to add another piece of info... I actually turned the AC off, reset my trip and still crap MPG. So no. However and not wishing to dismiss your experience, maybe looking at Morrison's diesel and it's effects is a good project for you? No point in spending hours looking a the effects of increased rust coefficients due to heat if there is crap fuel in circulation which is killing the economy of your customers and then sell your findings to Morrison's.

Auto810graphy. Like the other emerging posts there seems to quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to support that Morrison's fuel delivers less mpg. Haven't seen anything scientific yet to suggest anything different.

Of course it could be just a coincidence and at the exact same time I filled up and reset my trip computer something wore out/broke. Eg. Exhaust manifold which is common. (have taken cover off and checked this and.... No!. Air filter 1000 miles old. No. Replaced fuel filter at same time at expense of my knuckles so... No).

I hate spending money of fuel as filling up doubles the value of my car. But can't wait this time!

[pjramsey]

For those that have more free time than sense I have found something a bit more scientific. Ignore the first parts and scroll to the results which clearly show the more biodiesel (which I believe can be up to 7% in Euro/UK spec) the higher the fuel consumption. Also depends what biofuel is added which was a new one on me.

https://academic.oup.com/ijlct/article/6/4/255/665...

[pjramsey]

Thanks Pistonafc. That summary will save anyone who is interested scrolling through the pages of tech stuff on the link I sent.

Tried to find out how much biodiesel percentage (assuming that is the underlying reason) for each brand. Also does anyone know when the biodiesel is added? Is it at the refinery or added by the supplying vendor? The interesting one is Shell who sells their V-power diesel. As they have no UK refinery and unless they ship in predefined diesel I assume they take the base diesel and modify with additives and biodiesel afterwards. I did read some post that it is added to the tanker...

[pjramsey]

Looks like another piece of anecdotal evidence for Berad to justify a project and sales pitch to Morrison's. Come on Benrad ...step up...

[pjramsey]

Thanks Behead. Road makes a bit more sense than rust!!! Answering the other post why Morrison's may want to commission a report is that there does seem to be a lot of anecdotal evidence (including fleet drivers) who seem to think there is a issue with their diesel. They probably don't give a hoot however even from the small Pistonheads corner of the world it could spread negative advertising which in the long run could impact them. Hence it's in their best interest to prove their diesel is just as good as everyone else's. Plus as a consumer (and the whole point to my initial question) is that as a consumer I want to know what I am putting in my car! Fully appreciate your comments about other factors but I have done a lot of mechanics over 35years of driving and know my car pretty well and unless a complete coincidence (which I am not ruling out) am suspicious given I do the same journey under the same conditions for years that I suddenly have a problem against a backdrop of anecdotal evidence the first time I have filled up ever at Morrisons.

[pjramsey]

Interesting Biggles111. I have read that biodiesel comes in all flavors from animal fats through to vegetable. Maybe they just throw in whatever is cheapest (obviously there is a price war always going on) and the difference varies between batches. Or maybe older/difgerent diesels EcUs and fuel systems are more susceptible to different mixes. I expect something like an old 90 Defender would run old chip fat whilst a twin turbo BM engine is likely to have less tolerance. I might contact Celtic tuning as they seem have a good handle on peeformace issues....

[pjramsey]

Thanks for the replies. Seems mixed. The feedback regarding the Land Rover was interesting as 2xchevron with his test has seemed at least for his car to have proved that Morrison's diesel was different and didn't work as well. Interesting point especially comparing the favourable Sportbrake comment is obviously the Landy was an old engine with no electronics and probably designed for old diesel where the Jag is a new engine and the EVU was probably designed with maps that could adjust to different grades of diesel. Perhaps try shell diesel in the Jag. May give a mpg increase. Obviously cheap diesel isn't cheap if economy is down.

More worrying than the economy aspect is the threads that suggest reliability is effected. Could be down to other factors especially in fleet vehicles which may go longer between services. Not inconcievable that slightly higher bio content and or less additives have a greater effect on reliability when oil and filters are at the end of their service life.

All I know is that first time I have used Morrison's diesel ever and the mpg was significantly down on a journey I have done over a hundred times and in the same conditions. I actually thought something was wrong with the car. Then made the connection to a change in diesel. Time will tell when I fill up next later on this week.

[pjramsey]

Thanks Birma. Interesting reply. Seems to be the same percentage difference as I noticed. I service my aging Civic myself and have always changed oil and filters every 6k miles which apart from being a Honda is I think one of the reasons it is now in the 200k club. Once in a while I use Winn's injector cleaner just for good measure. The effect of this is a subject for a whole different debate!

Am pretty convinced by all of the replies at least in some cars the Morrison's diesel offers less MPG. On the fence in terms if it causes any damage. My personal view is that less MPG means the engine isn't working as efficiently than it should. Hence leads me to believe some of the other replies that state higher levels of breakdown.

Will report back when I fill up again which incidentally is ASDA.