Do you prefer usable bhp or more bhp than you need?
Discussion
I'm currently finding my F82 M4(430bhp) a touch frustrating on the road...and I find myself overtaking stuff and then quickly running out of road or either catching the next car up quickly and I'm back on the brakes. Whereas when I had my Mini Cooper S(192bhp) I never had that problem, and I could pretty much use all of the performance for most of the time.
So it comes back to the argument of either having usable performance or more performance than you need? So which do you prefer and why?
So it comes back to the argument of either having usable performance or more performance than you need? So which do you prefer and why?
LordHaveMurci said:
njw1 said:
Every day a journey said:
maybe try not driving like a knob?
What makes you think the op is driving like a knob?
It is a genuine question and I'm just interested in how others feel about it that's all.
I don't often drive like a knob anymore, but I've certainly been guilty of it in the past though for sure.
J4CKO said:
I would really rather feel like I can use all the performance rather than feeling like I am holding it back all the time.
I definitely get a bit of this to be fair(especially after the Cooper S). I like that I have a pretty quick car with the M4 and I sometimes feel like I should stretch it's legs every now and then, but the reality out on the roads though is that there aren't that many opportunities to do so though. It is nice to know it is there though, but I do often wonder how the owners of M5s/E63Ss etc get on with over 600bhp.
J4CKO said:
hmm, you want your Mini back dont you ?
I know we've had this conversation before but I do genuinely miss the Mini. Some might think that I've gone completely mad(and don't get me wrong I do love the M4) but when I had the Mini I really liked how much fun it was for almost all of the time. The M4 is fun under full throttle and when you can feel the rear moving around for sure, but it feels quite sensible at normal speeds...whereas the Mini was more like a little yappy dog if you like.
fido said:
SturdyHSV said:
av185 said:
Try an e92 or e46.
Telling cerb4.5lee to try an E92 is like telling someone to go back to their ex-wife, he has only just stopped b
hing about the lack of torque the first time around Thanks for making me smile.
Ratae said:
cerb4.5lee said:
... Some might think that I've gone completely mad(and don't get me wrong I do love the M4) but when I had the Mini I really liked how much fun it was for almost all of the time...
...whereas the Mini was more like a little yappy dog if you like.
I completely get this. I've got a lightly modified R53 and its one of the most fun cars I've had, I've got a GR Yaris on order but in my impatience I started looking at alternatives for the money and test drove an LCI F80 M3 this week, stonking performance and presence but no more fun than the GR or R53, if anything, less fun. ...whereas the Mini was more like a little yappy dog if you like.
I do like the effortless overtaking performance of the M4 though, and as someone mentioned earlier in the thread...if some numpty tries to hold you off while overtaking(and some do) you aren't going to be left out hanging to dry in it.
Pistonheader101 said:
Get a NA
The E92 M3 I had was also a bit frustrating for me as well...because you needed a decent clear stretch of road to actually get to 8400rpm!(plus the gearing with the manual version that I had is long in those as well). Now a nice 6.2 V8 C63(more torquey and lower revving)would certainly do the trick in comparison I would imagine though.
Gary C said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The E92 M3 I had was also a bit frustrating for me as well...because you needed a decent clear stretch of road to actually get to 8400rpm!(plus the gearing with the manual version that I had is long in those as well).
Now a nice 6.2 V8 C63(more torquey and lower revving)would certainly do the trick in comparison I would imagine though.
err ?Now a nice 6.2 V8 C63(more torquey and lower revving)would certainly do the trick in comparison I would imagine though.
you can get to 8400 in about 10 feet
I remember wishing that I had an Autobahn around the corner from me when I had mine. Don't make me keep talking about the E92 M3 please...because I've said enough about it already to last a lifetime!
UmpaLoompa said:
whereas the M2C at low speeds does its best vacuum cleaner impression
I can relate to that too!
Maybe you need a big burbling V8?! Might give you more satisfaction cruising around than having to hoon it everywhere, but also the big power when you do get a bit of clear motorway / racetrack on a sunny Sunday morning...
You definitely hit the spot for me with this. I think the key is to get something that engages you at slow speeds, and that can be either the noise or the feel of the controls, or the way that the car makes you feel. My Cerbera was really good at that stuff I thought, and I enjoyed that at either 30 or 130. I can relate to that too! Maybe you need a big burbling V8?! Might give you more satisfaction cruising around than having to hoon it everywhere, but also the big power when you do get a bit of clear motorway / racetrack on a sunny Sunday morning...
Quite a few on the thread have mentioned a similar thing with the Merc C63s, and I think that having some drama at lower speeds can really make a difference to the driving experience. A Caterham or a Lotus Elise are good at that too, lower power but very engaging.
Hungrymc said:
Is the M4 a Dual clutch and the mini a manual? I think as well as engine characteristics this is a factor.
I think with a manual, even with a very fast car it’s kind of fun to take it through just one gear, feel the torque curve etc. With a dual clutch or auto, the way they just hammer through the gears builds ridiculous speed. I have had an M4 for 2 years now, have had some brilliant drives, but lots of drives that are just missing something. It somehow feels less fun than other cars I’ve had when doing short shifting / swift but not really fast driving.
You raise a very good point and the M4 is a DCT and the Mini was manual. Strangely though and my preference is usually a manual, I do think that the DCT seems to suit the M4 well and certainly up to now I don't hanker after a manual in it(I'm fortunate to have a manual in the 370Z though). I think with a manual, even with a very fast car it’s kind of fun to take it through just one gear, feel the torque curve etc. With a dual clutch or auto, the way they just hammer through the gears builds ridiculous speed. I have had an M4 for 2 years now, have had some brilliant drives, but lots of drives that are just missing something. It somehow feels less fun than other cars I’ve had when doing short shifting / swift but not really fast driving.
You are bang on I reckon, and I think that when you are going steady though you do lose a bit of interaction from the car with the DCT, however it is a great gearbox for when you're gunning it I think though.
Om said:
I was thinking this myself. With a modern 7/8 speed auto/dual clutch you have an additional 1, 2 or even 3 gears over a similar manual so generally shorter ratios.
Certainly for me when I think back to the manual M3 I had...I definitely think that there is a benefit to the shorter ratios that you get with an Auto or a DCT. The ratios were nice in the manual Mini I had though, and that seemed a nice match to a nice twisty country road I thought.
TameRacingDriver said:
Am I the only one who's happy with a 200 bhp car (an old mini in my case). It really isn't slow at all. I've seen lots of people who talk about having stuff like 350 bhp m135is and the like saying they love it as they can rev the balls off it and not be doing silly speeds 
I don't know what roads some of you drive on but revving the balls off cars with that power will see you either in a field or in prison in very short order round here. I'm also confused about the thought of a previous car of mine, a Z4 coupe 3.0 struggling to overtake a bus. I'm starting to wonder if I live in a parallel universe *shrugs* or is it just Willy waving?
I think in the more powerful cars that I've had you do have to turn a bit of a blind eye to the speed limits(out on open roads) to enjoy them. However I always had loads of fun in the Mini, and I genuinely didn't hanker after much more power(mostly). It was only on the long straights that I fancied a bit more power. I don't know what roads some of you drive on but revving the balls off cars with that power will see you either in a field or in prison in very short order round here. I'm also confused about the thought of a previous car of mine, a Z4 coupe 3.0 struggling to overtake a bus. I'm starting to wonder if I live in a parallel universe *shrugs* or is it just Willy waving?The Mini certainly got under my skin it seems for sure.
Gary C said:
cerb4.5lee said:
, I do think that the DCT seems to suit the M4 well
.
Apart from the farty fake change noise .
I'm not quite sure if I'm happy or sad about it to be fair...and secretly I quite liked the pops and bangs on my Mini!
Honeywell said:
I love my GT86 engine. Its been to Fennsport. Its remapped for 99 octane fuel, its got a 100 cell single cat sports exhaust, its got a bigger air filter and its got the Subaru manifold fitted. It burbles like a Subaru, revs to 7500 rpm all day long, doesn't have the emissions torque dip and sounds incredible. If they could come like this from the factory they'd have sold millions of the things. Amazing throttle response, power stacked at the top end and with the auto throttle blip on it flatters you and urges you on.
Supercharging would lessen its appeal not increase it.
I bet yours is a very nice thing to drive with the improvements that you've made to it for sure. Supercharging would lessen its appeal not increase it.
When I took my S14a 200SX from 200bhp to 250bhp it completely transformed the car for me. As standard it was as flat as a pancake and it hardly made any noise. But once I'd took the boost from 10 to 16psi...and added colder plugs/a full decatted stainless exhaust/cone filter etc, it felt like a completely different car I thought. I loved it so much.
I've always fancied a GT86(they remind me of the 200SX in many ways) and a lightly modded one really appeals to me.
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