Discussion
Sat here waiting for my new car to be delivered (F-Pace SVR). Or rather, initially waiting for the delivery driver to call to say he is an hour away.
I'm like a kid at Christmas, pretending to work, but actually looking at reviews and comments on this and other sites/forums.
This is the first SUV/4x4 I’ve owned, but not the first I’ve driven. I’m a big fan of the driving position and the drive of an SUV as much as the extra benefit the greater loadspace begets, but on this and other forums, the anti-SUV sentiment is prominent, especially to those who can’t demonstrate a specific and unequivocal need for such a car. Despite the car’s 5l supercharged V8, 542bhp and British credentials, am I set for a barrage of hatred and criticism?
I'm like a kid at Christmas, pretending to work, but actually looking at reviews and comments on this and other sites/forums.
This is the first SUV/4x4 I’ve owned, but not the first I’ve driven. I’m a big fan of the driving position and the drive of an SUV as much as the extra benefit the greater loadspace begets, but on this and other forums, the anti-SUV sentiment is prominent, especially to those who can’t demonstrate a specific and unequivocal need for such a car. Despite the car’s 5l supercharged V8, 542bhp and British credentials, am I set for a barrage of hatred and criticism?
Brett748 said:
I like SUVs but I've never owned one. I'm put off by how disproportionately expensive they are compared to a saloon or estate, for example a 2017 540i Estate is about £30k and the equivalent X5 early £40s.
Maybe, not sure what 500bhp+ V8 saloons/estates are any cheaper?Limpet said:
Just bought my first one - a 2011 XC90 D5
I really quite like it. It's a very soothing thing to drive. You quickly realise you're never racing anyone in it, and you're never going to drive it with anything approaching enthusiasm, so it calms you down as soon as you get in it.
I even like the high seating position
Not sure the supercharged V8 will create the same calmness I really quite like it. It's a very soothing thing to drive. You quickly realise you're never racing anyone in it, and you're never going to drive it with anything approaching enthusiasm, so it calms you down as soon as you get in it.
I even like the high seating position
LimaDelta said:
Which bit do you not need? For some reason not needing the SUV/4x4 part attracts more criticism than the not needing the 542bhp part. 
Good choice BTW, the hatred is mostly jealousy.
Kind of all of it really, but then the same with every car I've owned.Good choice BTW, the hatred is mostly jealousy.
The 542bhp is definitely 'need' though
Krikkit said:
LimaDelta said:
Good choice BTW, the hatred is mostly jealousy.
Not necessarily.SUVs tend to be worse-handling, less economical, pointlessly massive examples of otherwise good cars.
As a good example, the OP's incoming car - the F-pace SVR is a very cool machine, but it'd be even cooler if they just made an estate with the same dimensions internally etc.
The worst part about SUVs isn't the "premium" end, but the move to make every new car a crossover/4x4/SUV or whatever they should be called... Build a car that's objectively worse to follow fashion and keeping-up-with-the-Joneses. See also, massive alloys and stiff suspension.
Not sure the 'pointlessly massive' fits with the 'objectivity' either?
jimKRFC said:
Julian Scott said:
Tyre Extinguishers?
This bunch - https://www.tyreextinguishers.com/Cause all sorts of chaos in Bristol.... https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/ty...
Fady said:
Don't know that the E-Class does have a bigger footprint. Maybe longer but not as wide and likely not as heavy. It's about choices and just sounds like you are trying to satisfy your own conscience!
True. E-class is 5cm narrower, 20cm longer and 100kg lighter; like for like, it's also £30,000 more expensive!3rd day of SUV ownership and I'm smitten so far.....fabulous car.
First thoughts.
Jekyll & Hyde personality. Comfortable cruiser and lovely to waft around in, but then push on and it's a fire breather with a soundtrack to match.
Handling is surprisingly good, especially in Dynamic. It's no Elise, but minimal roll and hides it's bulk well.
Exhaust note is probably just right. Addictively growly with exhaust button active, both grumbly at low speeds and a roar at higher speed, but in 'normal' it's present rather than intrusive, close to silent at 70 (ish) on the motorway too.
Feels like a bigger car than it is, solidity and refinement that feels a level above a GLE/X5 rather than a level beneath.
No sign of SUV Hatred in the real world either, few surprised looks when the engine note is heard.
Fuel consumption (OBC) ranged from 32mpg on a run to show the parents (45 miles e/w, mix of A-roads & motorway) down to 9 mpg (cold engine 3 mile round trip doing the school run driving for audible enjoyment rather than fuel efficiency ;-) )
Pivi is great, very user intuitive.
And did I mention the soundtrack??
First thoughts.
Jekyll & Hyde personality. Comfortable cruiser and lovely to waft around in, but then push on and it's a fire breather with a soundtrack to match.
Handling is surprisingly good, especially in Dynamic. It's no Elise, but minimal roll and hides it's bulk well.
Exhaust note is probably just right. Addictively growly with exhaust button active, both grumbly at low speeds and a roar at higher speed, but in 'normal' it's present rather than intrusive, close to silent at 70 (ish) on the motorway too.
Feels like a bigger car than it is, solidity and refinement that feels a level above a GLE/X5 rather than a level beneath.
No sign of SUV Hatred in the real world either, few surprised looks when the engine note is heard.
Fuel consumption (OBC) ranged from 32mpg on a run to show the parents (45 miles e/w, mix of A-roads & motorway) down to 9 mpg (cold engine 3 mile round trip doing the school run driving for audible enjoyment rather than fuel efficiency ;-) )
Pivi is great, very user intuitive.
And did I mention the soundtrack??
Baldchap said:
I prefer a fast estate to an SUV, but you do you.
My only concern is the sheer size of these things and the fact the majority seem to be driven by people who are scared of getting within two feet of the kerb so they sit aloft in their giant boxes careering along a foot over the centre line so you end of having to take evasive action!
The majority of them? Given how EVERY school run in dominated by them, apparently, I'm surprised there are any left, surely every time the pass each other, the majority would get taken out by each other?My only concern is the sheer size of these things and the fact the majority seem to be driven by people who are scared of getting within two feet of the kerb so they sit aloft in their giant boxes careering along a foot over the centre line so you end of having to take evasive action!
I'm only 3 days into SUV driving, but from 20yrs of driving, it's more the tiny hatchbacks driven by old ladies and pimped up hot hatches whose drivers are busy updating their BeReal photos on their phones that are more likely to lane drift.
vikingaero said:
This is the fundamental about SUVs. You can have a diesel hatchback that might get 50mpg+ in the real work. Yet a similar SUV might only get 40mpg because you will never overcome the greater frontal area of a SUV. On average a SUV might have 1/3rd minimum more frontal area than an equivalent hatchback. Manufacturers want these cashcow products in their model line up.
So why do people buy them. As much as perceived comfort, safety, high up seating, rugged styling, people are conditioned by the manufacturers to buy SUVs as much as they want them. SUV's are perceived as sporty, do it all, go anywhere, and in a similar vein many many people have those perfect white trainers for shopping rather than any physical activity.
The cult of SUV is similar to fashion. Someone has one, so you want one. Remember the days when everyone wore Superdry or Hollister. If there is a SUV on a suburban drive somewhere, the neighbours a few doors down will get one, and then the next neighbour. Whilst we may be PH in trying to be driving orientated, never underestimate the power of marketing to ordinary folk.
Or maybe people just want one? Maybe they are entitled to want one and therefore buy one?So why do people buy them. As much as perceived comfort, safety, high up seating, rugged styling, people are conditioned by the manufacturers to buy SUVs as much as they want them. SUV's are perceived as sporty, do it all, go anywhere, and in a similar vein many many people have those perfect white trainers for shopping rather than any physical activity.
The cult of SUV is similar to fashion. Someone has one, so you want one. Remember the days when everyone wore Superdry or Hollister. If there is a SUV on a suburban drive somewhere, the neighbours a few doors down will get one, and then the next neighbour. Whilst we may be PH in trying to be driving orientated, never underestimate the power of marketing to ordinary folk.
Maybe you are superficially driven by peer pressure and marketing, but don't judge everyone by the same standards.
And if you think Hollister is dead you haven't seen their profit figures, nor can you be exposed to girls under 16. My daughters live for Hollister, along with Lululemon.
nickfrog said:
vikingaero said:
The cult of SUV is similar to fashion. Someone has one, so you want one. Remember the days when everyone wore Superdry or Hollister.
SUVs might well go out of fashion indeed like those 2 brands, although they've been around for decades now so I wonder why it hasn't happened yet. I'll still have one though if they still make them as I prefer them functionally (I probably buy them despite the marketing) and find the mpg penalty tiny.BGarside said:
As a cyclist I can't stand SUVs as they take up the whole width of the narrow lanes I'm forced to ride on (too much traffic on A and B roads) so I have to keep stopping to let them past and can never relax as I'm always worried about drivers coming up behind me who might squeeze me off the road.
They are also a nightmare around town, taking up more than half the road width where there are parked vehicles, and when driving on country roads where they cross the centreline on blind corners. Overtaking is also difficult as they block the view ahead. Also get headlamp beams directly in my face as my car is relatively low.
As a cyclist, I love SUVs, I can get my bike in without taking the wheels off. They are also a nightmare around town, taking up more than half the road width where there are parked vehicles, and when driving on country roads where they cross the centreline on blind corners. Overtaking is also difficult as they block the view ahead. Also get headlamp beams directly in my face as my car is relatively low.
and maybe you shouldn't drive such a relatively low car
BGarside said:
Its 'low' because it's 'old', not sporty, and predates the huge bloated efforts that pass for normal cars these days.
If I needed space for a bike, I'd buy a hatchback or estate car, which do the job just as well without the need for an SUV....
So you should drive such a low, old car?If I needed space for a bike, I'd buy a hatchback or estate car, which do the job just as well without the need for an SUV....
As for hatchback, my wife's hatchback won't take most of my bikes in it without taking at least one wheel off. It's also harder to load in. It's not why I bought it, but it is a nice benefit.
BGarside said:
The high headlamp issue was the same in my previous 'modern' cars, a 2003 Focus and 2004 Leon.
My bikes are 60-64cm frame sizes and even the hatchbacks needed the front wheel and saddle removed. Don't want to drive/park something the size of a van though, or thread it through narrow Somerset lanes.....
You have proven my point. I can put my bikes in without removing wheels let alone the saddle, plus it isn't the size of a van. My bikes are 60-64cm frame sizes and even the hatchbacks needed the front wheel and saddle removed. Don't want to drive/park something the size of a van though, or thread it through narrow Somerset lanes.....
Sounds like you'd benefit from an SUV
BikeSausage said:
I’m not an SUV fan but would stop short of hatred. Your money - buy what the f
k you like.
My dislike of them is twofold. Nothing to do with ecomentalism, although they are wasteful vehicles.
1) Logically and objectively (and I know cars aren’t always logical and subjective purchases!!!) they are heavier, less efficient, no more practical and slower than their estate equivalent. It’s an irrational purchase. Subjectively, they’re less attractive and, well, heavy/blobby looking. I don’t get how someone finds such tall, heavy looking cars attractive or graceful.
2) This is about the owners and drivers - I know many of them and live in a very SUV-heavy area. These are fashion and image purchases - follow the market, keeping in with the “in” crowd. They’re bought to to demonstrate status and success to others. To deal with Status Anxiety. But that’s never admitted. It’s nearly always “I need the 4WD” (try better tyres before 4WD) or “it’s more practical” (oh, just like the estate then?) or “my wife prefers sitting higher up” (obvious to feel more superior) or “I got a great deal” (the only person getting a great deal is the dealer).
Many of my SUV-driving acquaintances are as inauthentic as the cars themselves.
Oh, and the extinguisher jobbies need dealing with, harshly.
1) Compared to the cars I looked at, my SUV is c5-10% heavier. It's as efficient, more practical, faster and better looking (IMO) - but I don't get how anyone finds a hearse-looking estate car attractive. k you like. My dislike of them is twofold. Nothing to do with ecomentalism, although they are wasteful vehicles.
1) Logically and objectively (and I know cars aren’t always logical and subjective purchases!!!) they are heavier, less efficient, no more practical and slower than their estate equivalent. It’s an irrational purchase. Subjectively, they’re less attractive and, well, heavy/blobby looking. I don’t get how someone finds such tall, heavy looking cars attractive or graceful.
2) This is about the owners and drivers - I know many of them and live in a very SUV-heavy area. These are fashion and image purchases - follow the market, keeping in with the “in” crowd. They’re bought to to demonstrate status and success to others. To deal with Status Anxiety. But that’s never admitted. It’s nearly always “I need the 4WD” (try better tyres before 4WD) or “it’s more practical” (oh, just like the estate then?) or “my wife prefers sitting higher up” (obvious to feel more superior) or “I got a great deal” (the only person getting a great deal is the dealer).
Many of my SUV-driving acquaintances are as inauthentic as the cars themselves.
Oh, and the extinguisher jobbies need dealing with, harshly.
Edited by BikeSausage on Tuesday 27th September 18:31
2) Doesn't that say more about you and where you live than what happens to humans when they suddenly get in the drivers seat of an SUV?
Interesting comment about authenticity. So I need to define an approved need for an SUV, and make sure it is an authentic one? Or is it me that needs to be authentic. Perhaps you might explain?
Stuart70 said:
Julian Scott said:
Brett748 said:
I like SUVs but I've never owned one. I'm put off by how disproportionately expensive they are compared to a saloon or estate, for example a 2017 540i Estate is about £30k and the equivalent X5 early £40s.
Maybe, not sure what 500bhp+ V8 saloons/estates are any cheaper?
willmagrath said:
I don't hate people for buying SUVs. The up high driving position is nice, especially for people with bad hips/legs. And the onslaught of promotions/advertising and SUV love on TV/billboards is bound to get into people's heads.
Id like to have one one day myself.
But the fact of the matter is they are heavy, slow, bad for the environment and take up loads of space.
An easy comparison is mpg.
A brand new BMW X3 3.0d will do 40.9mpg
A 330d x drive is 45.0mpg
That's 10% better on fuel. The 3 series will be just as safe, just as big inside and more fun to drive.
I had an E36 330d Touring when they first came out, 1999 IIRC. It was lovely and one of the first non-utilitarian estate cars. As refined as the saloon, but a load carrier it was not.Id like to have one one day myself.
But the fact of the matter is they are heavy, slow, bad for the environment and take up loads of space.
An easy comparison is mpg.
A brand new BMW X3 3.0d will do 40.9mpg
A 330d x drive is 45.0mpg
That's 10% better on fuel. The 3 series will be just as safe, just as big inside and more fun to drive.
Just over 400l with the seats up, nearly 1300 with the seats folded. Compare that to the F-Pace, same class of car as the X3 although granted cars have got bigger, but this has 650l with the seats up and nearly 1750l folded. And it's more useable.
coldel said:
Ultimately the whole debate is about what individuals need, in their individual situation, and that will be slightly different for everyone.
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