Citroen Xantia Activa????

[300bhp/ton]

This is a car which seems to have passed me by......

....in fact, if I'm brutally honest I don't think I'd heard of it until a few days ago


But it seemed to garner quite a bit of interest and talk in the Moose Test tread recently and looking on Youtube there seems to be no real shortage of clips of them - on track, off road or doing other motorsporty type stuff.

I've also read some reviews on them and they make quite stark reading tbh. Each and every single thing I've read about them says they are in a different league to normal cars!

Can anyone vouch for this?


And if it's true, what does the PH massiv' think of the Xantia as a club level competition car? Thinking along the lines of autosolos, gymkhana's and rally style events.

In my experience so far, handling and nimbleness seems to count for more than HP or 0-60mph times at such events.

With it's fancy suspension and anti roll capabilities I'd have thought it'd be quite good......


.... anyone actually know?

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 2nd November 09:39

[300bhp/ton]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[300bhp/ton]

Muzzer said:

I have to hand it to you 300, you're nothing if not 'eclectic' in your car world.

Would I use a Citroen Xantia for autotesting and gymkhanas?

Feck no.

Get a small car like a Fiesta or something.

My old boss had a Xantia back in the day. It was a 2.0 petrol so went quite well but was made from chewing gum, was definitely not 'sporty' and was "comfortable" rather than "nimble"

I never like to conform....

Would be more autosolo than autotest and there are usually classes for different size vehicles so less of an issue.

The rally stuff would be more about handling rough ground and varying surfaces. Stock passive suspension is ok, but I was wondering how the Activa (not normal Xantia) would stack up as it has auto leveling hydrolic suspension and anti roll bars.

According to a Scandinavian mag the Activa out does many a sports car (Elise/911) in it's Moose handling test. And early I watch a vid where one was doing a slalom course at the same speed as a Lotus Elan but looking far more composed and both a lot quicker than a Sierra.

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

Chris_w666 said:

The activa handling on something like a time-trial around a circuit would be interesting assuming you could equip it with stickier/wider tyres and more power.

I don't know whether you could uprate the suspension to deal with the extra grip. It's not like you could just fit stiffer springs and dampers to compensate like on most cars.

I'd assume it would sort it all out, it measures pitch and roll, not too sure it knows or cares about the actual tyres.

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

I think reliability might be a concern too, knowing the electronics in French cars of that era. You really wouldn't want the rams used for self leveling to suddenly decide to reverse direction in the middle of a corner.

That would be a concern.

[300bhp/ton]

Chris_w666 said:

I don't think something like an Activia would be much use for Autosolos or Autotesting the better cars seem to be very lightweight Caterfield type things, RWD old school stuff like MK1/2 Escorts, or really short fiesta/nova/mini sized cars. I have seen lots of people try in bigger cars and they just never do as well. The activa handling on something like a time-trial around a circuit would be interesting assuming you could equip it with stickier/wider tyres and more power.

Show me a Caterham or MK1/2 Escort for £500-1200

Also I don't think a Caterham is ideal for rally type events and an Escort would need lots of mods.

I hear where you are coming from, I currently use my TR7 V8, but it's a bit too tidy and the V8 (and the volume of the exhaust ) prohibit it from some events. Looking at alternative cheap competition cars.

RWD would be my preference....

-Porsche 924
-Mazda RX-7 Gen 1
-Mazda MX-5

Are my main ideas at present.

-MGF is another option as they are cheap and should be quite solid and newer than the others for the same money.
-BMW e30, although I don't see why I'd go for one over the front 3 candidates.
-Rover Metro/100 as a small fwd alternative.

But the fancy suspension on the Activa just got me thinking.

My cousin competes in similar events in his 2.0 stock TR7. But rough ground does take its toll on the car and getting a setup that works well on mixed surfaces is quite challenging.

I do think a Xantia is a bit big and heavy, although with a stripped interior I suspect no much heavier than many other cars. It's bulk would be a concern, but if it corners like it shouldn't, then does that outweigh this?

[300bhp/ton]

ad551 said:

Doesn't the handbrake operate on the front wheels on a Xantia? Not good for autotesting surely!

Why does everyone on PH think autosolo is exacty the same as autotest??

Wouldnt be using the handbrake in an autosolo but cheers I didn't realise th Xantia handbrake worked on the front wheels

[300bhp/ton]

Chris_w666 said:

300bhp/ton said:

But the fancy suspension on the Activa just got me thinking.

My cousin competes in similar events in his 2.0 stock TR7. But rough ground does take its toll on the car and getting a setup that works well on mixed surfaces is quite challenging.

I do think a Xantia is a bit big and heavy, although with a stripped interior I suspect no much heavier than many other cars. It's bulk would be a concern, but if it corners like it shouldn't, then does that outweigh this?

What kind of rallying are you thinking? It just seems like a car that probably has limited potential unless it is for sprints around a circuit or tight hill climb course, wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) quotes the xantia weight between 1250 and 1430kg meaning you would need to shed a lot of stuff to get it under a ton as I think the heavier figure is the Activia, and I have no clue how tuneable the 2.0 turbo lump is.

Mixed events tbh upto stage rallies of some sort is the plan.

I think think the 1430kg kerb weight is the V6 and/or diesel versions. There was also an esate Xantia.

I've read the Activa suspension only added 17kg over a stock Xantia. And 1200kg is not so far off a Porsche 924 or even a 5 speed TR7 if you can get it down to that weight.

HP isn't really a concern, unless you have long straights, which few grass roots club events have due to reg and permit restrictions.

I mean, a stock 924 or MX-5 aren't speedy either.....


Honestly think a RWD coupe is what I'm looking for (probably early next year to prep for next season). But I was just interested and curious with the Xantia.

[300bhp/ton]

Chris_w666 said:

300bhp/ton said:

ad551 said:

Doesn't the handbrake operate on the front wheels on a Xantia? Not good for autotesting surely!

Why does everyone on PH think autosolo is exacty the same as autotest??

I knew the difference but my experience of Autosolos is limited to 2 events both of which suited short cars due to being tight circuits.

I agree, although different classes sort of make it less important unless you are gunning for an outright win, but that takes money as well as skill.

[300bhp/ton]

doogz said:

Max_Torque said:

How about activa suspension on an early hydrogas MGF?? Both cheap cars to buy and a "frankensein" might just work??????? Gets the active benfits with rwd and nimble sized package??

I thought the Activa suspension was rubbish though?

Not disagreeing, but why do you say so?

[300bhp/ton]

doogz said:

300bhp/ton said:

doogz said:

Max_Torque said:

How about activa suspension on an early hydrogas MGF?? Both cheap cars to buy and a "frankensein" might just work??????? Gets the active benfits with rwd and nimble sized package??

I thought the Activa suspension was rubbish though?

Not disagreeing, but why do you say so?

Because Max Torque spent hours yesterday bleating on about how he was right and we we're all wrong.

I've never driven the Activa, but i've spent a few hours behind the wheel of a 3.0 V6 version, and it was one of the smoothest comfiest cars i've honestly ever driven.

Sorry, was forgetting Max_Talks additions to that thread

[300bhp/ton]

Smike said:

davepoth said:

Smike said:

Citman said:

Not sure I approve of this driving at all, given it very much appears to be public roads, but it does give some idea of what it's capable of cornering at speed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v1CF_fY4nE

You would have thought it would beat a Primera with 25bhp less round Thruxton by more than a tenth of a second though? Perhaps it works better on slower bends?

I'm a bit lost, where does the Primera bit come from?

From an earlier post towards the bottom of page 1 - I was just intrigued as to why it wasn't quite a bit faster than the other similar or lower powered cars at a fast track - perhaps it 'shines' on the road

Page1 said:

"Car" magazine used one at their annual handling day at Thruxton in 1996. Its lap time was 1/10 of a second faster than the P11 Primera Sri with 25ish bhp less.
I think their summary was along the lines of "very able on a B-road, could do with some roll to find the limit on a track".
E36 Compact 318ti was quite a bit quicker and might do better in an autotest perhaps?
Anyway, December '96 issue if you even care....

I guess we'd need a bit more info on exactly which models and how.

I've just done some Googling and Parkers has a 2.0 SRI Preimera listed at 88hp and 14 sec 0-60mph which can't be right. Carfolio doesn't have the SRI but it does have 150 and 180 something 2.0 litre models listed.

But I suppose what you'd really need to make any true sense of comparison is a lap time of non Activa Xantia with the same power/engine and one with. That would tell you how much of an advantage it gives or not.

Coming with other cars makes for false assumptions as you don't really know what the contributing factors are that make it a better or worse lap time, i.e. traction, grip (tyre width/type), gearing, hp and torque curve, brakes.

Reading through the F1 history of active suspension it does appear that it works a lot better on rougher terrain, in F1 this was street circuits I think. And logically this makes sense to me, as rough terrain is what will upset a passive system far more as you can't tune for compliance over the bumps and the stiffness you want for a high speed race car.

I think Mansell wasn't a huge fan of active suspension due to the nature of how it feels, which sort of echo's the Car article....

Active suspension was banned in F1 though, so I suppose by proxy it would suggest that it does indeed make for a competitive advantage.

[300bhp/ton]

NoelWatson said:

The NSX managed to overcome its cornering limitations to just beat the Xantia

wow thanks

[300bhp/ton]

GHW said:

IME, the primary factors for making a fun autotest/solo car are low weight and short wheelbase, not to mention mechanical simplicity (so you can fix it in the paddock when you inevitably break it). The Xantia doesn't excel in any of those categories.

If you're considering RWD, it's difficult to get a nice, small RWD car. Also, a limited slip differential is essential if you're looking to have silly sideways fun on these events. Without an LSD, you'll just be spinning up your inside wheel in slow/tight turns and generally looking like a dick An MX-5 would be a good choice, especially a Mk1 1.8 with a Torsen diff.

However, if it were my £800-£1200 budget for a car that was purely for these events, I'd look at getting a dirt cheap small hatch (probably a S1 106 XSi or Rallye), making sure the rear brakes are in tip-top condition and fitting a fly-off handbrake. It'll be just as much fun as an MX-5, it'll be cheaper and easier to look after and you won't care about giving it a complete raping in an industrial estate car park every weekend

Thanks.

Hatches don't really interest me, I do have a Metro on the short list, but that's more because with a VVC engine in it'll be quick.

Have autotested a Pug 106 in the past (and with a few trophies too). But a RWD car is so much more fun IMO and would be my preferred choice, even if ultimately it's less competitive overall. Size I agree is important, as is either light/power steering and a quick rack.

But I'm not fussed about trying to win as I'm fully aware that takes money to be at the top. I just want to compete for fun.

But I'm also interested in events like this:






Which you can see has a real mix of surfaces. A low riding, stiffly sprung vehicle might not be the most ideal setup for this, or indeed a short wheelbase hatch.

My thinking, and it was only idle curiosity and interest, was how would the Xantia Activa's suspension cope with such terrain? It has good compliance over the rough, but the active roll bars mean it should be taught in the corners too.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 3rd November 08:46

[300bhp/ton]

GHW said:

For that kind of event (Cheltenham MC Gymkhana?), with a preference for RWD, I'd put my money on the E30 3-series. Best bet probably a 325 Sport (I think the regs for the CMC events still let you use 6-pot engines). The E30 suspension is lovely and compliant, and 325 Sports are sideways all day long

(it'd be less fun on a traditional auto test though )

4 pot only and I believe no turbo's.

[300bhp/ton]

NoelWatson said:

300bhp/ton said:

GHW said:

IME, the primary factors for making a fun autotest/solo car are low weight and short wheelbase, not to mention mechanical simplicity (so you can fix it in the paddock when you inevitably break it). The Xantia doesn't excel in any of those categories.

If you're considering RWD, it's difficult to get a nice, small RWD car. Also, a limited slip differential is essential if you're looking to have silly sideways fun on these events. Without an LSD, you'll just be spinning up your inside wheel in slow/tight turns and generally looking like a dick An MX-5 would be a good choice, especially a Mk1 1.8 with a Torsen diff.

However, if it were my £800-£1200 budget for a car that was purely for these events, I'd look at getting a dirt cheap small hatch (probably a S1 106 XSi or Rallye), making sure the rear brakes are in tip-top condition and fitting a fly-off handbrake. It'll be just as much fun as an MX-5, it'll be cheaper and easier to look after and you won't care about giving it a complete raping in an industrial estate car park every weekend

Thanks.

Hatches don't really interest me, I do have a Metro on the short list, but that's more because with a VVC engine in it'll be quick.

Have autotested a Pug 106 in the past (and with a few trophies too). But a RWD car is so much more fun IMO and would be my preferred choice, even if ultimately it's less competitive overall. Size I agree is important, as is either light/power steering and a quick rack.

But I'm not fussed about trying to win as I'm fully aware that takes money to be at the top. I just want to compete for fun.

But I'm also interested in events like this:






Which you can see has a real mix of surfaces. A low riding, stiffly sprung vehicle might not be the most ideal setup for this, or indeed a short wheelbase hatch.

My thinking, and it was only idle curiosity and interest, was how would the Xantia Activa's suspension cope with such terrain? It has good compliance over the rough, but the active roll bars mean it should be taught in the corners too.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 3rd November 08:46

I'm not sure that the compliance would be that good in the rough as the ARB may be triggered - something I recall from the original road tests (making your head nod sideways), although I could be imagining it.

Interesting comment and I can certainly see the view point.

[300bhp/ton]

doogz said:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2172329.htm

Possibly a bit over budget for what you're after, but having had a shot of a mates 1600 Crossflow'd Frogeye Sprite at a grass autotest, they are immensely fun!

Looks like a riot. I do have the Spridget down on my size comparison chart. Think I'd like something a little more modern though, so less mods needed. But I agree, I suspect it would be huge fun.

[300bhp/ton]

GHW said:

For that kind of event (Cheltenham MC Gymkhana?), with a preference for RWD, I'd put my money on the E30 3-series. Best bet probably a 325 Sport (I think the regs for the CMC events still let you use 6-pot engines). The E30 suspension is lovely and compliant, and 325 Sports are sideways all day long

(it'd be less fun on a traditional auto test though )

Should have said a bit more.

I know a good vehicle for doing this and auto solo's and likely the occasional autotest too are ideally different.

But I'm only out to have fun rather than title chasing and as tests/solos, usually have classes I'm happy to have a less ideal vehicle for them if it offers up more fun.

The e30 did appeal, but like you say a 325 would be nice. But as it wouldn't be allowed at some events I'd be no better off than I am now with my V8 TR7.

In truth I think a 924 or MX-5 are the most likely, probably the Porsche as I think it will eligible for Historics too.

[300bhp/ton]

Mr Will said:

300bhp/ton said:

...no turbos...

Can't use an Activa then.

Well spotted that man!

Actually it did cross my mind, but I thought I'd investigate the possibilities of the suspension system first. Also I'm not sure, but was the Activa suspension used on non turbo models too, Wikipedia is a little vague??

[300bhp/ton]

Mr Will said:

300bhp/ton said:

Mr Will said:

300bhp/ton said:

...no turbos...

Can't use an Activa then.

Well spotted that man!

Actually it did cross my mind, but I thought I'd investigate the possibilities of the suspension system first. Also I'm not sure, but was the Activa suspension used on non turbo models too, Wikipedia is a little vague??

I believe they were available on the continent with the V6, but that would also be of little use to you.

Are you sure you need the Activa suspension though, the lesser cars came with Hydractive II computer controlled suspension, which lacks the active anti-roll but is significantly simpler and still rather effective (stiffens up automatically according to throttle/steering/etc).

I still think you are mad for even considering it though

Mad??? Totally

In truth, it was more just interest and curiosity. Porsche 924 and MX-5 are the main cars I'll be looking out for I think, although a Gen 1 RX-7 would be equally as good if not too rusty and running. I'm also hoping to convince my brother to go halves on the purchase too