Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?
Poll: Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?
Total Members Polled: 867
Discussion
OK, may not be the best thread title but I'm sure you get the idea!
Basically, has your engine had to be rebuilt due what is perceived to be a frequently discussed design fault?
I don't think we should include RMS failures as those as I understand it won't cause an engine rebuild in the sense we are discussing here (happy to be corrected)
Please let me know what failures you have experienced and I'll add those to the poll if needbe to see how many of what failures are happening.
Hope this makes sense and if it's been done before my apologies
Basically, has your engine had to be rebuilt due what is perceived to be a frequently discussed design fault?
I don't think we should include RMS failures as those as I understand it won't cause an engine rebuild in the sense we are discussing here (happy to be corrected)
Please let me know what failures you have experienced and I'll add those to the poll if needbe to see how many of what failures are happening.
Hope this makes sense and if it's been done before my apologies
Globs said:
But that doesn't give actual figures as far as I can see, it's just a discussion thread 
The poll is multi-answer so if you've had a problem, it's yes and also the problem.
Globs said:
HoHoHo said:
Globs said:
But that doesn't give actual figures as far as I can see, it's just a discussion thread The poll is multi-answer so if you've had a problem, it's yes and also the problem.
Early days, but I suspect I've got a pretty good idea which way this poll might be........
Glad I bought mine as the poll suggests currently I've got a slim chance of a major problem.
Still the doom mongers obviously haven't come back from the pub yet so there may still be a change in statistics
Glad I bought mine as the poll suggests currently I've got a slim chance of a major problem.
Still the doom mongers obviously haven't come back from the pub yet so there may still be a change in statistics
General Bilko said:
Globs said:
HoHoHo said:
No, I'm simply trying to get some confirmed figures rather than another discussion.
You could also add an option of 'Haven't bought one because of the faults', it would be interesting to see how many people have skipped these cars.
blueg33 said:
Matt Seabrook said:
Its not exactly an engine rebuild problem though is it. Not a cheep job but also not a rebuild. Its not that uncommon on any car to have a leaking RMS and something to look at when changing clutches. So far the pole is at <8% interesting stuff
To me, it depends on the cost or what it leads to if not fixed. If its a £800 job then IMO its not major, if it costs £5k it may as well be in the same class as a rebuildEdited by Matt Seabrook on Sunday 11th September 18:05
X51 said:
The only fly in the statistical ointment (other than the usual issue of non-failure being a passive state), is that there is no way of saying you have had or still have a fleet of working 996, 986, 987, 997 vs someone with one failure as you only get one vote and therefore isn't weighted to the number of vehicles.
Additionally, what happens if only one of the cars you own/have owned has failed?
For example, I have a friend with three 996 and one failed.
So he could only presumably vote for "YES" (failure) and thus ignoring the two that didn't break?
On his stats alone the probability would look like 100%, whereas although he was unlucky, his actual stats were 33% chance of failure.
That's a valid point - in fact I have had a Boxster S, a 996 and a 997 and not had a major problem on any of the three!Additionally, what happens if only one of the cars you own/have owned has failed?
For example, I have a friend with three 996 and one failed.
So he could only presumably vote for "YES" (failure) and thus ignoring the two that didn't break?
On his stats alone the probability would look like 100%, whereas although he was unlucky, his actual stats were 33% chance of failure.
This is as good as the forum software will allow I'm suspect, but will give us an idea albeit not 100% accurate.
What is interesting is we are now at 2% which indicates to me the problem isn't anywhere near as bad as some posters would have you believe, those who haven't purchased because of the threat of a problem can hopefully see far more cars run as they should than don't.
All I can say is..... 'INSIGNIFICANT'
Kieran said:
Having inadvertently clicked on 'Skip Voting' to review the current results it would appear the option to then Vote is removed. Is there a way of now registering a vote? if not can the Poll administrator amend to show an additional IMS failure vote.
Thanks
I've had a look and I can't see a way of adding your vote - can you back space in your browser?Thanks
hartech said:
Can I just add to the opinion that the statistics render the possibility of engine failure insignificant - to ask if any of those who expereinced it (and the cost of sorting it out) regarded it as insignificant.
It is a classic low risk but high cost problem that I relate as similar probably to writing your car off or suffering a house fire. They are statistically even less likely to happen to you yet very few would risk not insuring against it because the resulting cost to fix would be so high.
However the warranty schemes available can be expensive and often do not actually cover the fault or the whole cost of repair. Often they exclude wear and tear causes or limit pay outs (and are too wealthy to take on legally - referring everything to appeal to delay a result and increase potential costs if you lose).
The only ones I know of that are reliable are the Porsche warranty scheme (more expensive but you get a new engine) and our own Lifetime Maintenance Plan (less expensive but you pay for parts - but can have the causes of the faults modified to reduce the likelyhood of a repetition).
Baz
BazIt is a classic low risk but high cost problem that I relate as similar probably to writing your car off or suffering a house fire. They are statistically even less likely to happen to you yet very few would risk not insuring against it because the resulting cost to fix would be so high.
However the warranty schemes available can be expensive and often do not actually cover the fault or the whole cost of repair. Often they exclude wear and tear causes or limit pay outs (and are too wealthy to take on legally - referring everything to appeal to delay a result and increase potential costs if you lose).
The only ones I know of that are reliable are the Porsche warranty scheme (more expensive but you get a new engine) and our own Lifetime Maintenance Plan (less expensive but you pay for parts - but can have the causes of the faults modified to reduce the likelyhood of a repetition).
Baz
I think you misunderstood my post.
I'm not suggesting it's insignificant to the person personally when their engine goes pop - of course it's significant, upsetting and every other emotion that you feel at the time!.
This thread was a result of comments suggesting Porsche had a significant number of engine failures (one quote was 'it happens to them all' or words to that effect) which it would appear (based on figures in so far) as not being the case.
cragswinter said:
If you want to make it a sticky you want to make it a "Porsche water cooled engine failure" as this is a bit none helpful for owners or potential owners of boxsters & caymans.
Or perhaps a "water cooled flat 6 engine failure poll"
Just a thought.....
Happy with that thought - but I can't make it a sticky, a mod has to I assume?Or perhaps a "water cooled flat 6 engine failure poll"
Just a thought.....
mayes911 said:
this post is never going to work or show a true picture.if anything it is going to show an over exaggerated view of failures .people who post or look at forums have either had a failure or are worried,i am one of those who had a failure nearly 5 years ago so started looking more into the problems and joined pistonheads and read heavily on other forums.what you have to look at is the amount of 986/7 and 996/7 gen1 cars that came in to the uk in the 10 years (1998-2008) and how many failures there have been.but you will never know how many were repaired under warranty etc.as a rough guide (purely quess work)pgb must have imported some 50000 cars in that time.so lets say they had 4 cars a week in to be repaired over the last 5 years and all the indies together the same.thats 2080 cars or a 4% failure rate.now i have only ever read of say 10+ cars actually failing on these forums.also to paint a truer picture of failure you need to factor in the:
TYPE OF FAILURE
MODEL(are certain models more likely to fail)
YEAR (are some years better than others this is true for the later ims)
MILEAGE OF FAILURE (what miles are they failing ie do oval bores occur only on higher mileage cars)
GEARBOX TYPE.(does a tiptronic fair better than a manual or visa versa)
then again some cars have had numerous owners and the new owner maybe unaware of an engine replaced under warranty and would proudly say 60000 miles and still going strong!
imho failure rate is still fairly low (less than 5%)and if you are unlucky the repair can be lot less than a Ferrari service,plus the 996/7 represents a cheap secondhand sports car even if you factor in a Hartech upgrade or lifetime plan.
so keep on driving and enjoy a great car
I suspect you are correct which I why I started the poll - there are too many people waiting for a problem to happen that simply doesn't doesn't effect as many cars as suggested.TYPE OF FAILURE
MODEL(are certain models more likely to fail)
YEAR (are some years better than others this is true for the later ims)
MILEAGE OF FAILURE (what miles are they failing ie do oval bores occur only on higher mileage cars)
GEARBOX TYPE.(does a tiptronic fair better than a manual or visa versa)
then again some cars have had numerous owners and the new owner maybe unaware of an engine replaced under warranty and would proudly say 60000 miles and still going strong!
imho failure rate is still fairly low (less than 5%)and if you are unlucky the repair can be lot less than a Ferrari service,plus the 996/7 represents a cheap secondhand sports car even if you factor in a Hartech upgrade or lifetime plan.
so keep on driving and enjoy a great car
Edited by mayes911 on Tuesday 13th September 15:35
Hopefully owners will continue to vote and the results will show that whilst there are failures with a small number of cars, Porsche engines are no more fragile than any other major manufacturer.
bordseye said:
HoHoHo said:
This thread was a result of comments suggesting Porsche had a significant number of engine failures (one quote was 'it happens to them all' or words to that effect) which it would appear (based on figures in so far) as not being the case.
I dont understand this attitude. I wouldnt expect any internal engine failiure in a properly serviced modern car before 100k miles and probably 150 to 200. So whether the figue is 10% or 5% or even 2%, itsa surely unacceptable.As it happens the percentage is higher than I thought it would be but at the same time I do not believe it's representative of the real figure in the real world.
I can't remember the exact figure, but there have been somewhere around a couple of hundred thousand 997's sold with suspect engines and I can't remember them being featured on Watchdog or similar because there's a major design fault affecting owners.
I'm not suggesting there may not be a problem, but depending on who you talk to in the trade, some make it their aim to find and eliminate the cause, others say the problem is not as widespread as might be thought, go drive it and the chances are extremely high that you won't have a problem.
As I said, no attitude, simply trying to establish what's what.
Globs said:
HoHoHo said:
there have been somewhere around a couple of hundred thousand 997's sold with suspect engines and I can't remember them being featured on Watchdog or similar because there's a major design fault affecting owners.
Out of the whole used a new motor trade, the Watchdog headline 'Older Porsche engines may have issues some indeterminate time after the initial warranty expires, so you may want to extend it to 10 years".Yes, I can really see Watchdog sticking up for all those Porsche owners who didn't take the official warranty.... the BBC luvvies would just love to run that program, oh yes, I can see it now
I think I know what you're saying and I'll try and answer accordingly.
I believe that if the problem were as great as some posters claim it is, there would be more exposure in the press....or if it were as great as some posters believe there would be a vehicle recall......or if it were as great as some posters believe the annual warranty wouldn't be as cheap as it is because lots of engines going pop at £10k per time becomes quite expensive, and if I were Porsche I wouldn't want to lose money.
So no, I don't think we'll see Watchdog discussing Porsche engines in the future. The problem only occurs in a tiny, tiny percentage of cars (otherwise the USA for example would be having a Class Action which they're not) and unless someone can convince me otherwise we should all simply get on with enjoying our toys, warrant them accordingly (because it's a very complicated piece of machinery and other elements can and do break it's wise to have insurance) and move on.
If it's as widespread as thought and you suggest, why hasn't Autocar or Evo and any other number of car magazines worldwide written articles on it, questioned Porsche and exercised their journalistic skills - the answer is surely because it's not a problem.
To also suggest 'most engines will fail at some indeterminate time in the future' is something that just can't be substantiated. The poll suggests that's not the case, sure it's a higher percentage than I'd like but it's also only representative of those who seek to post and not the vast majority who simply get in their car and drive it everyday to work or where ever and don't even know forums such as PH even exist!
To also suggest 'most engines will fail at some indeterminate time in the future' is something that just can't be substantiated. The poll suggests that's not the case, sure it's a higher percentage than I'd like but it's also only representative of those who seek to post and not the vast majority who simply get in their car and drive it everyday to work or where ever and don't even know forums such as PH even exist!
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