The Porsche GT allocation system...a good video view
Discussion
I think if people regard the cars sensibly as to be driven and used properly we would be better off than the idea that they are a way to make some money or as some kind of investment. The days are long gone when they were rarity...just look as the number of 996RS there were...a handful compared to today's numbers. I am a GT fan so not knocking the cars, but we would be better off just meeting market demand rather than an artificial shortage.
As it happens I generally get the car I want from the dealer - they aren't worth the premium to me and I do not need to be the first to have one, or PTS or the like. If I did not get one its not the end of the world anyway.
As it happens I generally get the car I want from the dealer - they aren't worth the premium to me and I do not need to be the first to have one, or PTS or the like. If I did not get one its not the end of the world anyway.
Steve Rance said:
I think that he has a point. Long gone are the days when Porsche allocate their GT cars primarily to people who will appreciate and drive them as intended. Dr Ferry must be turning in his grave at how cynical his beloved brand has become. Fair play to the J chap for having an opinion. It’s not illegal to have one - despite what the liberal elite may have you believe.
Isn’t it easy to sit behind a keyboard and a pair of curtains and be rude and disingenuous.
I also think he has a point.Isn’t it easy to sit behind a keyboard and a pair of curtains and be rude and disingenuous.
No idea who he is ,nor do I care, but I do worry about the whole concept of cars as investments rather that as experiences . It seems sad to me that all that design and engineering is destined to be a trophy to be admired rather than something that will have a few paint chips ( or worse as I have experienced). If they simply supplied the market and avoided all of this "limited "stuff, there would be lots of cars, they would depreciate normally and then the cheaper cars would find their way to enthusiasts hopefully.
F6C said:
If it really has to be a car you've never driven, well, seems to me that by definition it can't really be about the drive, can it? It's about something else, something probably rather less healthy.
I think that depends. In my case had had long experience with BMW M cars, and when I was at the NS one time the chance to drive a 996 GT3. It was impressive, and made me want to get a Porsche for track and road . So I went to the dealer ( no background) and got a 997.1 RS for the second year of production, never having driven it, and took that to a bunch of tracks. Still have it 13 years later. In the early 997 day there was little demand for the cars and I got it at a discount.All reviews of the 7.2RS suggested it was better, so I bought one ( no drive possible) and tracked it immediately two days after factory pickup.. I decided to keep the earlier car for reasons of sentiment; probably should have kept the 7.2 but the 991RS looked good to me; I had driven plenty of 991s , so I got it. No premiums or the like. I will keep the ones I have and get the 992RS additionally. I am always curious about how this stuff develops.
They are all a bit different and quite a lot of fun, and generally tough as old boots in my experience.
Everything gets driven and tracked, so I would disagree that buying a car you have never driven is not about the drive.
It is just not practical to test drive one if it is not available, and I want to spec a car exactly to what I want; not possible if I went aftermarket or bought something for a silly premium in the temporary period after they first came out. A lot of the time they go often back close to original dealer price over time , especially was they are not so rare these days.
We all have different reasons to buy or to make the very rational decision buy something else, For instance, I tried the manual R8 when it came out first and did not like it - others rate it highly. Have driven many of the modern M cars and they do not have for me the same connection as a E24 or E39 M5, yet have friends who love them.
For me its just that I like these cars, nothing more ,not for status, just for the drive. I don't think they are at all worth a premium, and if I did not get one at dealer price I would not buy one Others whom I respect want a much purer track car and do not particularly fancy this level of road/track spec. It is definitely nothing like a proper RSR or the like. I would never claim that the GT cars are the ultimate in anything and the big differentiator as always is the driver. I am not likely to drive at the limit of performance in any of them but more a respectable but unspectacular track day and lots of road travel in Germany and so on as I do every year.
F6C said:
One wouldn't have thought the fact that Porsche, a commercial entity and a subsidiary of a large multinational, is not your mate is terribly insightful, let alone controversial. It's entirely obvious, isn't it?
As for why people use OPCs, all kinds of reasons, isn't it? Status, access to new models, the perception that main agent history is superior, convenience and access to interesting courtesy cars, more salubrious surroundings and, cough, staff, and, yes, personal relationships. But, once again, I do not think it's terribly remarkable or controversial to point out that car dealers are hardly synonymous with putting ethics above commercial interests or that the person who treats you nicely because you buy a load of cars off them isn't actually your friend. Is it? Surely, it isn't?
As a business person I am completely clear that Porsche is a commercial entity, as are dealers.As for why people use OPCs, all kinds of reasons, isn't it? Status, access to new models, the perception that main agent history is superior, convenience and access to interesting courtesy cars, more salubrious surroundings and, cough, staff, and, yes, personal relationships. But, once again, I do not think it's terribly remarkable or controversial to point out that car dealers are hardly synonymous with putting ethics above commercial interests or that the person who treats you nicely because you buy a load of cars off them isn't actually your friend. Is it? Surely, it isn't?
I use my local OPC for everything.
Of course, the relationship is helpful at the sales level.
More importantly I have zero problems in getting a car serviced, no argument if there is a problem with a car beyond service, and I have had excellent experience with them over many years, compared to unbeleivably spotty service at BMW and utter crap at Mercedes, which resulted in my dumping those brands after years.
Service really matters. I have never had a loaner, don't drink the coffee and only rarely attend any events .
The really important things:
-Getting the car I want as specified including GT cars if required.
-factory delivery
-being able to get the car on my schedule, not theirs
-no arguments at service and five minute drop-off and collection.
It makes utter sense to do this. Certainly not for the coffee,loaners or decor. If I wanted that I would have a Lexus.
I would agree that brand loyalty is fickle in general, but as a fairly long term Apple and Porsche GT person I would suggest the following:
(1)Of course there are people who buy Apple or Porsche for some kind of perceived status and if the companies can market to this they will do so.
(2) In the case of Apple I am surprised that so many people think status matters. For me the key is the integration of the whole system, not the brand...I use a MacBook Pro,iPhone and AirPods and the reason is that I never worry about compatibility ; the upgrades are a breeze. I use the Apple store to migrate iPhone/Macbook when I upgrade the device and it all works flawlessly, plus use iCloud for storage.
No interest in latest devices..have a IPhone X and two year old MacBook. There is no functional reason for me to upgrade anything but will do so when a particular functional advance makes it worthwhile. I do not think for a moment that each of these devices individually is the best ..they're just hardware anyway. I just like the Apple environment.
(2) The Porsche brand like any premium brand will attract some people for reasons of status, and to me. if it makes them feel good, why not?. Like people buy Rolexes or Tiffany jewellery or the like. People often buy houses to be in a desirable area.
Not everyone though.
I went to Porsche because of a single event. I was at the Nürburgring years ago with a brand new M6 V10, and my instructor rightly concluded it was underbraked and heavy. I had had a long string of M cars and was already not so happy wth the BMW direction. He got me to try a 996 GT3 that visit and that was the moment when I wanted a Porsche GT car. I read a review of the then new 997RS and that convinced me to buy a GT car there and then.
I am not convinced that most normal people can even tell what they are - naturally a Porsche fan can identify them but for the rest its just another in the endless flavours of the same 911 form factor. Like Apple, I would never claim its the best product out there for a second.It is more a comfort with the cars which are good road cars and very well suited to track days when I want to do that. I have no interest a full track-only car and I also am aware that the talent of the driver is what makes more of a difference than a few more BHP or a few kilos of weight shaved off.
So in the end it's a comfort and familiarity thing.
I have driven a lot of the fast EVs..Bi-motor Teslas, Taycan Turbo S etc and recognize the change coming.
I do think this will have an impact on brand loyalty but I recall when digital watches came out, and Swatch revolutionized the watch industry. There is no reason to wear a watch, though I do, and not a smart watch, and yet there is huge brand loyalty to the traditional watchmakers. The the top of the market may well endure. A Patek Philippe is vastly less capable than a good smartwatch and does not keep better time, but I don't see any price decline soon.
The loyalty may play in the EV vs ICE world. I know a lot of people who switched to EV and they all say the same thing.
"Never going back"
For younger people who drive EVs in particular the allure of GT cars may well be zero, so the future product range for Porsche is going to have to be hugely compelling. More importantly the availability of fast and convenient recharging to catch up wth Tesla is not going to be easy.
(1)Of course there are people who buy Apple or Porsche for some kind of perceived status and if the companies can market to this they will do so.
(2) In the case of Apple I am surprised that so many people think status matters. For me the key is the integration of the whole system, not the brand...I use a MacBook Pro,iPhone and AirPods and the reason is that I never worry about compatibility ; the upgrades are a breeze. I use the Apple store to migrate iPhone/Macbook when I upgrade the device and it all works flawlessly, plus use iCloud for storage.
No interest in latest devices..have a IPhone X and two year old MacBook. There is no functional reason for me to upgrade anything but will do so when a particular functional advance makes it worthwhile. I do not think for a moment that each of these devices individually is the best ..they're just hardware anyway. I just like the Apple environment.
(2) The Porsche brand like any premium brand will attract some people for reasons of status, and to me. if it makes them feel good, why not?. Like people buy Rolexes or Tiffany jewellery or the like. People often buy houses to be in a desirable area.
Not everyone though.
I went to Porsche because of a single event. I was at the Nürburgring years ago with a brand new M6 V10, and my instructor rightly concluded it was underbraked and heavy. I had had a long string of M cars and was already not so happy wth the BMW direction. He got me to try a 996 GT3 that visit and that was the moment when I wanted a Porsche GT car. I read a review of the then new 997RS and that convinced me to buy a GT car there and then.
I am not convinced that most normal people can even tell what they are - naturally a Porsche fan can identify them but for the rest its just another in the endless flavours of the same 911 form factor. Like Apple, I would never claim its the best product out there for a second.It is more a comfort with the cars which are good road cars and very well suited to track days when I want to do that. I have no interest a full track-only car and I also am aware that the talent of the driver is what makes more of a difference than a few more BHP or a few kilos of weight shaved off.
So in the end it's a comfort and familiarity thing.
I have driven a lot of the fast EVs..Bi-motor Teslas, Taycan Turbo S etc and recognize the change coming.
I do think this will have an impact on brand loyalty but I recall when digital watches came out, and Swatch revolutionized the watch industry. There is no reason to wear a watch, though I do, and not a smart watch, and yet there is huge brand loyalty to the traditional watchmakers. The the top of the market may well endure. A Patek Philippe is vastly less capable than a good smartwatch and does not keep better time, but I don't see any price decline soon.
The loyalty may play in the EV vs ICE world. I know a lot of people who switched to EV and they all say the same thing.
"Never going back"
For younger people who drive EVs in particular the allure of GT cars may well be zero, so the future product range for Porsche is going to have to be hugely compelling. More importantly the availability of fast and convenient recharging to catch up wth Tesla is not going to be easy.
Not sure why it upsets people though. If I wanted (say) a desirable Ferrari there would be zero chance that I would get one.
Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
Never owned a Ferrari , no dealer relationship, not a world famous media personality. Just the way it works.
As I posted earlier, my personal choice is not to pay a premium, and not to flip or think of the cars as investments. If I don't get a particular car from the dealer at MSRP, then so be it. Not the end of the world.
If its worth it to someone to pay a premium then that's just the market and their view of the value of the car is different from mine.
GT4RS said:
Sorry wasn’t aware the owner was trying to sor it, makes sense for the opc not to tie up there own cash considering it’s loosing like you say a grand a month at present.
How times have changed, many thought gt prices wouldn’t drop but they clearly are.
Ive always allowed a £800 to 1k lose on my 911.2, so like you say it is what it is. But many who have bought a GT car have done so due to be told it won’t loose a penny!
Fair point.How times have changed, many thought gt prices wouldn’t drop but they clearly are.
Ive always allowed a £800 to 1k lose on my 911.2, so like you say it is what it is. But many who have bought a GT car have done so due to be told it won’t loose a penny!
I think the value of these cars ( or any car bought for driving pleasure) is in the experience, and if its the right car there is no reason to part with it.
Depreciation and all of that stuff may well occur and in the waning days of the internal combustion engine there will be increasing quantities of cars coming onto the market which will be regarded as symbols of the past rather than way to the future. Thus they will depreciate. I assume that the cars I have will depreciate lots. However, so will I. I will get one more GT car but I imagine the world will look a lot different in five years' time. No, there will not be a wholesale replacement by EV's but we will see the EVs being the latest and greatest as all of the development dollars go there.
I want another GT car simply because I enjoy them, thrash the hell out of them and don't care much about the wear and tear. If I were thinking of this the way I think of conventional investments that I do otherwise I would never buy one at this stage. However, I will just have a bit of fun with the next one as I have done in the past.
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