Manual GT3 - rev range advice
Discussion
Greetings. I have put a deposit down on a Gen 2 manual GT3 in guards, with an OPC.
Please could I seek advice on ignitions in range 3?
I have read through the detail on the 911v site ( https://911virgin.com/engine-revs/)
As you can see, there are 4 ignitions in Range 3, so above a single engine rotation.
I understand that the key point is operating hours elapsed since the ignitions, I can't immediately decipher this based on the info available. The 'operating time' in range 3 surely can't be in minutes? Also, am I reading this right - the PIWIS report was run in Oct 2020?
Based on this information - would you buy or walk?
(Just for clarity - you can rule out any buyer's remorse motivation. It's a car I want, but I want to do my homework).
Please could I seek advice on ignitions in range 3?
I have read through the detail on the 911v site ( https://911virgin.com/engine-revs/)
As you can see, there are 4 ignitions in Range 3, so above a single engine rotation.
I understand that the key point is operating hours elapsed since the ignitions, I can't immediately decipher this based on the info available. The 'operating time' in range 3 surely can't be in minutes? Also, am I reading this right - the PIWIS report was run in Oct 2020?
Based on this information - would you buy or walk?
(Just for clarity - you can rule out any buyer's remorse motivation. It's a car I want, but I want to do my homework).
Jefferson Steelflex said:
When I had this done on my 997.1 Turbo last year, the Overrev report stated the number of ignitions and the hours elapsed since that occurred. I guess didn't software reads the data differently, so in your pictures I wouldn't assume it's an error and you're just swapping hours for minutes on the report.
4 ignitions is feasible (mine had 8 recorded) and if the time elapsed is in minutes (276) then it happened under 5 hours ago?
OPCs will still warrant that engine I think?
Yeah, they will put a warranty on it which gets me nearly there. I've learnt sadly to check a bit deeper when buying through an OPC though. Have the grey hairs to prove it's not always plain sailing!4 ignitions is feasible (mine had 8 recorded) and if the time elapsed is in minutes (276) then it happened under 5 hours ago?
OPCs will still warrant that engine I think?
TDT said:
Pretty sure the time recorded against the rev range is the time WHEN it last occurred, not the time since it occurred.
As it is 4 ignitions is probably an error and we are talking tenths or hundreds of a second.
There is a formula... and such a tiny number there works out to be negligible as the engine is still fine.
There is a formula for the increments between the rev ranges also, which is different for every engine type.... so you’ll have an idea of exact how far over it really was recorded at.
If you’re buying/bought from a OPC and they sold it to you with that report... you’ll be under warranty so any issue and you can take it back and say hey.. you sold it to me like this and it was acceptable for you to have done so.. with warranty.
Personally I wouldn’t have an issue if the OPC is providing a warranty, and like has been said it’s probably an error or negligible.
That mate - btw, it's Paul here, the carmine gts > carmine 911 bloke local to you.As it is 4 ignitions is probably an error and we are talking tenths or hundreds of a second.
There is a formula... and such a tiny number there works out to be negligible as the engine is still fine.
There is a formula for the increments between the rev ranges also, which is different for every engine type.... so you’ll have an idea of exact how far over it really was recorded at.
If you’re buying/bought from a OPC and they sold it to you with that report... you’ll be under warranty so any issue and you can take it back and say hey.. you sold it to me like this and it was acceptable for you to have done so.. with warranty.
Personally I wouldn’t have an issue if the OPC is providing a warranty, and like has been said it’s probably an error or negligible.
All they now need to do is get me an up-to-date report and it should be fine. Looking forward to munching through tyres and getting on track!
gtsralph said:
Reading the PIWIS output:
Operating Time is Hours
Overrevs are Minutes
Your should also look at the value against Z_201_ Maximum engine speed reached
Average speed is 22.6mph over 5,704 miles, I hope you'll do better. Mine bought with 6,044 miles was 20.4 mph
Thanks Ralph - I skimmed over Z_201_ . They have confirmed in writing they can place it under Porsche warranty (obviously as they are selling it), but the 111 has not been completed yet. Operating Time is Hours
Overrevs are Minutes
Your should also look at the value against Z_201_ Maximum engine speed reached
Average speed is 22.6mph over 5,704 miles, I hope you'll do better. Mine bought with 6,044 miles was 20.4 mph
It would seem that the engine speed must be a red flag. Will see how it goes with them.
I do wonder how many OPC manual GT cars have squeaky clean PIWIS reports though.
whj said:
OP, I bought a 991.2 GT3 just before Christmas and it also had 4 ignitions (after 125 hours) in rev range 3. I bought it from an independent and whilst they assured me it was nothing to be concerned with, I sent the report to my local OPC and asked them if there was anything in the report that would preclude them from giving me a warranty and they said that in isolation the report didn't pose a problem in their view.
So after purchase I phoned to book the car in for the 111 point check and OPC service said, no need and just issued a warranty over the phone without the inspection or associated cost.
Ive done a paltry 700 miles so far, but now the weather has turned it will get regular exercise. Ive also got my first track day in it next month at Anglesey
Congratulations on the car whj - I'm with you on the track day want.So after purchase I phoned to book the car in for the 111 point check and OPC service said, no need and just issued a warranty over the phone without the inspection or associated cost.
Ive done a paltry 700 miles so far, but now the weather has turned it will get regular exercise. Ive also got my first track day in it next month at Anglesey
Do you recall what the maximum engine speed reached on your report was?
whj said:
No sorry I don't remember that bit, just remembered that 4 overrevs because I thought it odd.
No worries, spoke to two specialists and then the original owner today. The car has been really well looked after 
As an aside, the specialists told me that a) ranges 1 to 3 are fine, b) 4 in range 3 is a false positive anyway, and the engine speed reached didn't trouble them.
It's been fascinating to delve into this as I wean myself off PDK, over the the Spanish side.
Edited by CloudStuff on Friday 26th March 19:04
BanzaiMan said:
Haha! Great minds think alike :-)
whj said:
Congratulations on the purchase, looks great. How do you plan on using it, daily, sparingly or flat out track days and European tours ?
Cheers - good question. I have had two 911 GTS in succession and have 'dailyed' them - enjoyed every single mile.With the GT3, it's a weekend, trackday / tour and fun car.
I really think (I would say this though), that these cars are a bit of a high-watermark, 'that' engine, manual, pre-GPF (I stand to be corrected, but I think this MY is pre-muzzle).
I'll be driving my daughter's Dacia Sandero during the week - this helps keep the GT3 feeling 'special' too.
whj said:
CloudStuff said:
Cheers - good question. I have had two 911 GTS in succession and have 'dailyed' them - enjoyed every single mile.
With the GT3, it's a weekend, trackday / tour and fun car.
I really think (I would say this though), that these cars are a bit of a high-watermark, 'that' engine, manual, pre-GPF (I stand to be corrected, but I think this MY is pre-muzzle).
I'll be driving my daughter's Dacia Sandero during the week - this helps keep the GT3 feeling 'special' too.
The Sandero is not to be underestimated, fingers crossed it doesn't spoil your enjoyment of the GT3 With the GT3, it's a weekend, trackday / tour and fun car.
I really think (I would say this though), that these cars are a bit of a high-watermark, 'that' engine, manual, pre-GPF (I stand to be corrected, but I think this MY is pre-muzzle).
I'll be driving my daughter's Dacia Sandero during the week - this helps keep the GT3 feeling 'special' too.
CloudStuff said:
Collected it today.
What a fantastic machine!
It’s now with the detailer to have the wheels taken back to silver.
The decals look much better in the flesh, I’ll look to remove them after the summer though, as I don’t want to wreck the ppf.
God knows why I persisted with pdk for so long!
Couldn't stand it any longer - canned the original plan to have the wheels repainted, held off for a few weeks but ultimately took it to 9E to be sorted.What a fantastic machine!
It’s now with the detailer to have the wheels taken back to silver.
The decals look much better in the flesh, I’ll look to remove them after the summer though, as I don’t want to wreck the ppf.
God knows why I persisted with pdk for so long!
Ken has had the bodywork and wheels returned to original (plus fixed a dent and checked out a few (non-)issues for me).
Hopefully collecting tomorrow or Monday.
Very, very happy with it.....
Just to close down the story on this (nothing new here for the long-term aficionados, but hopefully helpful for somebody in a similar position).
I bought my manual GT3 in March. I have just sold it. Every single mile was a joy - added 5000 miles, turned a small profit. Madness.
Anyway, I was very wary at first about the ECU data before buying the car.
The car had ignitions in ranges 1 and 2 - no issue. But it also had 4 ignitions in range 3. The consensus here, and also having consulted a specialist before purchase was that 4 ignitions were likely to be a false positive. As the OPC were to put a warranty on it, it would be a very low risk purchase.
So I went ahead and that was the right decision.
I sold it to another OPC (different group). In the interim, I had a major service performed at yet another OPC.
The selling OPC ran a fresh 111 just before I purchased and were clearly not worried about the 4 ignitions. The servicing OPC, also gave the ECU data a clean bill of health.
The buying OPC were a little more cautious. A number of three-way calls with me, the buyer and various service managers later and the fact that the 4 ignitions had remained constant (i.e., not added to) and had been followed by a strip down and compression test was enough to get the green light and complete the sale.
Because, as we know, OPCs are operated by different franchise groups, service records are not always updated in the central system which Porsche GB operate. And where they are updated, the descriptions are sometimes sloppy and need to be deciphered.
TL:DR - Experienced GT owners can ignore. If, like me, you are new to manual GT products and concerned about low-level ignitions in range 3, do some legwork and trace back to determine when they happened and if a strip down and compression test was passed afterwards.
Hopefully this will be of use, and could prevent somebody missing out on a beauty, or being landed with a 'problem' car.
I bought my manual GT3 in March. I have just sold it. Every single mile was a joy - added 5000 miles, turned a small profit. Madness.
Anyway, I was very wary at first about the ECU data before buying the car.
The car had ignitions in ranges 1 and 2 - no issue. But it also had 4 ignitions in range 3. The consensus here, and also having consulted a specialist before purchase was that 4 ignitions were likely to be a false positive. As the OPC were to put a warranty on it, it would be a very low risk purchase.
So I went ahead and that was the right decision.
I sold it to another OPC (different group). In the interim, I had a major service performed at yet another OPC.
The selling OPC ran a fresh 111 just before I purchased and were clearly not worried about the 4 ignitions. The servicing OPC, also gave the ECU data a clean bill of health.
The buying OPC were a little more cautious. A number of three-way calls with me, the buyer and various service managers later and the fact that the 4 ignitions had remained constant (i.e., not added to) and had been followed by a strip down and compression test was enough to get the green light and complete the sale.
Because, as we know, OPCs are operated by different franchise groups, service records are not always updated in the central system which Porsche GB operate. And where they are updated, the descriptions are sometimes sloppy and need to be deciphered.
TL:DR - Experienced GT owners can ignore. If, like me, you are new to manual GT products and concerned about low-level ignitions in range 3, do some legwork and trace back to determine when they happened and if a strip down and compression test was passed afterwards.
Hopefully this will be of use, and could prevent somebody missing out on a beauty, or being landed with a 'problem' car.
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