Towing a 911 on a trailer to the South of France
Discussion
I'm currently in the process of buying a holiday home in the South of France. I'll likely be going for periods of 3-4 weeks at a time, several times a year between April and November.
I also have a new 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet on order, as to when it will arrive, god only knows!!
So, I'm thinking about the best way to get it down there. I'm not comfortable leaving the car in France all year round, just in case it gets stolen. Plus my insurers won't allow that. So I was considering buying a Brian James Trailer and taking it down, towing it with a Range Rover at time of each visit.
I've a few questions, and would be very grateful if anyone out there can help with these:
1. If I proceed with this plan. I'm going to go on a trailer course with all the caravaners!! (can't wait), so will hopefully gain some knowledge from that, but is towing a Porsche quite straightforward, or a tricky business?
2. Is towing a vehicle for private use generally accepted by most insurers, and will the Porsche be covered if I'm towing it on a trailer and an incident occurs?
3. Has anyone else towed a trailer to France, and if so, did you take the Eurotunnel, and did towing another car create problems, for example, double charge, as double length (although I can live with that), or perhaps questions like "where are you going with that Porsche"!
I would just drive it down each time, but we have two large dogs, so that's not going to work.
Any advice or alternative suggestions / ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
I also have a new 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet on order, as to when it will arrive, god only knows!!
So, I'm thinking about the best way to get it down there. I'm not comfortable leaving the car in France all year round, just in case it gets stolen. Plus my insurers won't allow that. So I was considering buying a Brian James Trailer and taking it down, towing it with a Range Rover at time of each visit.
I've a few questions, and would be very grateful if anyone out there can help with these:
1. If I proceed with this plan. I'm going to go on a trailer course with all the caravaners!! (can't wait), so will hopefully gain some knowledge from that, but is towing a Porsche quite straightforward, or a tricky business?
2. Is towing a vehicle for private use generally accepted by most insurers, and will the Porsche be covered if I'm towing it on a trailer and an incident occurs?
3. Has anyone else towed a trailer to France, and if so, did you take the Eurotunnel, and did towing another car create problems, for example, double charge, as double length (although I can live with that), or perhaps questions like "where are you going with that Porsche"!
I would just drive it down each time, but we have two large dogs, so that's not going to work.
Any advice or alternative suggestions / ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Thank you Billy Whizzzz, David W. and PushedDover, these are exactly the kind of comments and ideas I'm wanting to hear.
Firstly, Billy Whizzzzz, it's reassuring to hear that you got all the way to Greece without any problems. I've done that exact route before down to Brindisi (or was it Bari) then across to Corfu, albeit without a trailer.
I don't know if you remember it, but that final day's driving through Italy to the Ferry was one of the most boring pieces of road I've ever driven, just long, straight and dull, it seemed to go on forever...... Overall though, that adventure from UK to Greece, and ferry over to Corfu was one of the most memorable journeys of my life. Would definitely do it again.
David W. - A really good point and one I'm seriously considering, possibly even an older RHD. The issue I've got, is that the house is in quite a rural location, there's a barn with no doors but no garage, so the car will be left exposed. I'm hoping to get planning permission for a garage, or restore the barn, but either will likely take time. If you were going for a cheaper 911 (must be cabriolet), I'm thinking probably £40k mark, what would be the general consensus for what to buy?
Also, is security quite good on these older cars?
PushDover - I agree. it's a bit of a pain having to drag it backwards and forwards, but the problem I have, is my wife won't drive long distances over there, so we can't travel in convoy and we have two large dogs, so I'd have to drive down with them and then fly back to get the car.
As we're planning to come and go for probably 3-4 weeks at a time, I think it would be too much backwards and forwards. So, I know where you're coming from, but because of the trip frequency, I'm not sure it would work.
In terms of insurers, I know it's a bit naughty, but I thought if the car's there for extended periods, as long as I can show an outbound Ferry ticket, that kind of backs up its arrival day in France, and will save me going backwards and forwards with the car (I think 90 days is the limit). Can anyone see why not?
As mentioned above, would love to hear suggestions on the best 911 cab, something low to mid mileage, circa £40-£50k, but still a pleasure to drive?
Thanks to all for your advice on this
Firstly, Billy Whizzzzz, it's reassuring to hear that you got all the way to Greece without any problems. I've done that exact route before down to Brindisi (or was it Bari) then across to Corfu, albeit without a trailer.
I don't know if you remember it, but that final day's driving through Italy to the Ferry was one of the most boring pieces of road I've ever driven, just long, straight and dull, it seemed to go on forever...... Overall though, that adventure from UK to Greece, and ferry over to Corfu was one of the most memorable journeys of my life. Would definitely do it again.
David W. - A really good point and one I'm seriously considering, possibly even an older RHD. The issue I've got, is that the house is in quite a rural location, there's a barn with no doors but no garage, so the car will be left exposed. I'm hoping to get planning permission for a garage, or restore the barn, but either will likely take time. If you were going for a cheaper 911 (must be cabriolet), I'm thinking probably £40k mark, what would be the general consensus for what to buy?
Also, is security quite good on these older cars?
PushDover - I agree. it's a bit of a pain having to drag it backwards and forwards, but the problem I have, is my wife won't drive long distances over there, so we can't travel in convoy and we have two large dogs, so I'd have to drive down with them and then fly back to get the car.
As we're planning to come and go for probably 3-4 weeks at a time, I think it would be too much backwards and forwards. So, I know where you're coming from, but because of the trip frequency, I'm not sure it would work.
In terms of insurers, I know it's a bit naughty, but I thought if the car's there for extended periods, as long as I can show an outbound Ferry ticket, that kind of backs up its arrival day in France, and will save me going backwards and forwards with the car (I think 90 days is the limit). Can anyone see why not?
As mentioned above, would love to hear suggestions on the best 911 cab, something low to mid mileage, circa £40-£50k, but still a pleasure to drive?
Thanks to all for your advice on this
Thanks also to kel176506 and NDA,
These are all very good points, but the problem I have, is that I'm the sort of person who gets bored easily.
So, the plan with this house, is that we'll go for a few weeks, tire of the routine and heat in France (which you do), then we'll come home, quickly tire of the rain and grey skies and go back. Hopefully this will give us good variety and balance between April and late October.
We do love life here in the UK, but the summer's here can be so depressing, likewise though, being in the sun for extended periods can also become tiresome.
So because of this trip frequency, sourcing out transportation, or travelling separately when we've also got the dogs to take with us, unfortunately wouldn't work. Thanks both for the suggestions though.
These are all very good points, but the problem I have, is that I'm the sort of person who gets bored easily.
So, the plan with this house, is that we'll go for a few weeks, tire of the routine and heat in France (which you do), then we'll come home, quickly tire of the rain and grey skies and go back. Hopefully this will give us good variety and balance between April and late October.
We do love life here in the UK, but the summer's here can be so depressing, likewise though, being in the sun for extended periods can also become tiresome.
So because of this trip frequency, sourcing out transportation, or travelling separately when we've also got the dogs to take with us, unfortunately wouldn't work. Thanks both for the suggestions though.
Thank you all for your comments.
I think MDL111 is maybe right, the answer probably is going to be, securing the barn and leaving a car there.
The problem with that, is that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with leaving circa £150k 911 C4S there all the time, so what do I do with the car I have on order.
I guess I could take it down in April, bringing it back in October.
Or maybe see if there's a professional storage company in or around Toulouse, which is not far away for the winter months.
I suppose, I could register and insure it in France, but following Brexit, I'm not sure that will be straightforward, or if there will be any tax implications.
Alternatively, I could save some money and go for an older 911 cab - My questions are:
Is the 997 now considered a bit dated to drive (I'm not bothered about tech, just the car feeling "together")?
With prices so strong at present, is the 991 considered too much money, when you can pick up a 992 for not a lot more?
Would love to know your thoughts on this alternative option.
Many thanks again.
I think MDL111 is maybe right, the answer probably is going to be, securing the barn and leaving a car there.
The problem with that, is that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with leaving circa £150k 911 C4S there all the time, so what do I do with the car I have on order.
I guess I could take it down in April, bringing it back in October.
Or maybe see if there's a professional storage company in or around Toulouse, which is not far away for the winter months.
I suppose, I could register and insure it in France, but following Brexit, I'm not sure that will be straightforward, or if there will be any tax implications.
Alternatively, I could save some money and go for an older 911 cab - My questions are:
Is the 997 now considered a bit dated to drive (I'm not bothered about tech, just the car feeling "together")?
With prices so strong at present, is the 991 considered too much money, when you can pick up a 992 for not a lot more?
Would love to know your thoughts on this alternative option.
Many thanks again.
Thank you all, you've given me a lot to think about..... But these are all exactly the kind of points I wanted raising to help me make a decision, so all comments and all angles are greatly appreciated.
I certainly don't want to become a resident in France, as that has all kinds of tax implications.
The reality of trailering this car seems like it's going to be too much of a headache, so I think I' m going to have to scrap that idea.
Instead, I think I'll do as someone suggested, and instead spend the trailer money on restoring the barn.
I know a comment was made about a lack of specialists, so maybe the new car under warranty may be the better choice, as it will only be there for the summer months. One concern about that though, is if the new car has a Tracker, and is out of the UK for more than 90 days, if the insurers could obtain this information in the event of a theft, it could invalidate my policy - Could be a dear do!!
Alternatively, I may consider something older, like a 997 gen 2 as MDL111 suggested, or perhaps, something completely different. There is a lot to be said for old cars that don't cost much and you don't have to worry about, so I may seriously consider some other kind of old convertible.
I note a comment was made about Porsche's not liking being left standing, although this shouldn't be for more than 3-4 weeks at any time. If left on a C-TEK charger for this period, should it be OK?
Thanks once again for all your comments - I do feel like I'm beginning to reach a conclusion
I certainly don't want to become a resident in France, as that has all kinds of tax implications.
The reality of trailering this car seems like it's going to be too much of a headache, so I think I' m going to have to scrap that idea.
Instead, I think I'll do as someone suggested, and instead spend the trailer money on restoring the barn.
I know a comment was made about a lack of specialists, so maybe the new car under warranty may be the better choice, as it will only be there for the summer months. One concern about that though, is if the new car has a Tracker, and is out of the UK for more than 90 days, if the insurers could obtain this information in the event of a theft, it could invalidate my policy - Could be a dear do!!
Alternatively, I may consider something older, like a 997 gen 2 as MDL111 suggested, or perhaps, something completely different. There is a lot to be said for old cars that don't cost much and you don't have to worry about, so I may seriously consider some other kind of old convertible.
I note a comment was made about Porsche's not liking being left standing, although this shouldn't be for more than 3-4 weeks at any time. If left on a C-TEK charger for this period, should it be OK?
Thanks once again for all your comments - I do feel like I'm beginning to reach a conclusion
Firstly, sorry, I've been away for a couple of days.
MDL111, Thank you, and yes, I think I've decided to completely scrap the trailer idea.
Fink-Nottle - Thank you for your suggestions, and also for taking the time to investigate this and share your findings.
Claret M - Thank you also for sharing your first-hand experience of what I will be going in to. As you point out, the weather will not be consistent, but what we're looking forward to is being able to pick and choose. If the weather's poor in the UK and better in France, we'll go there. Likewise, if France gets too hot in the summer, we'll return to England.
I think the trailer idea is now well and truly shelved, so will look at the best way to travel down with my wife, dogs and multiple cars, initially at least, then perhaps consider France storage options. Thanks again.
Polite person - Thank you also for sharing your experiences - 800 - 1,250 miles in a day!!!! That's really going some, especially when you don't even look old enough to drive in that photo!!!! ????
Joking aside, we drove from East Sussex to Bordeaux in a day in our 5.0 Range Rover, and that was as much as I could manage (6am to 6pm), so you must have been mainlining coffee to do that.
It was good to read you comments though. We need to get a Tag on the next journey, my wife's getting really hacked off with the Tolls. Last visit was worse, as we took the dogs in the Range Rover and fitted a roof box. We quickly learned, that if you go through the toll with a roof box, the sensors think you're a truck, so the machine dispenses the ticket about 7ft off the ground, not easy for my wife having to climb out and up through the passenger window.
No speeding tickets yet Polite Person, but only been back 5 days following our most recent visit, so some may follow.
Registering a car in France sounds like a headache, and one I'd rather avoid, thanks for the heads up on that.
I hope to spend more time on the N roads when we get the new house and are in less of a hurry. We used the Autoroutes for the most part on the last couple of trips - From what I've experienced so far, virtually all French roads are an absolute joy to drive on, a complete world away from the UK, and a great place for cars like 911's, where you can enjoy and appreciate the firmer suspension set ups, without being shaken to death!!
Braddo - You are right - Dogs do complicate matters, and based on your knowing comment, I suspect you're probably a dog owner yourself. We have two Pyrenean Mountain Dogs, one is 80kg, the other 60kg, so these are not easy creatures to travel with. I'm sure we'll come up with something, but as you suggest, it may be a case of alternating the cars.
Johnmaddox - Good point, my brother uses shipping containers for storing excess stock for his business, from what I understand, they're extremely secure things - Maybe a thought.
RiccardoG - Completely agree regarding returning to the EuroTunnel Terminal
Pete.g - Thank you for your advice earlier, some good and sensible points you make. I did think about an older Boxster, but I've got this 911 Cab on order, if I don't use it in France, I wont use it here. That said, I'll see how it all goes, if it becomes too much trouble, I may do as you suggest with a cheaper option, which I won't worry about and sell the 911 later.
Dammit - Thank you, good point. It might be worth looking into this - That said, because the house is in quite a rural location, get a car backwards and forwards could prove problematic.
Finally, thank you to all for your comments. They're all greatly appreciated.
On a slightly different note....... I think I'm going to change my 911 order from a Carrera 4S Cabriolet to a 911 Turbo Cabriolet.
I know the Turbo S is supposed to be the one to buy, but I prefer the squarer exhaust at the rear on the standard Turbo, (plus it's about 20k cheaper).
Does anyone think that a standard Turbo will be a mistake, in terms of future values and desirability, with the Turbo S being held in such high regard?
MDL111, Thank you, and yes, I think I've decided to completely scrap the trailer idea.
Fink-Nottle - Thank you for your suggestions, and also for taking the time to investigate this and share your findings.
Claret M - Thank you also for sharing your first-hand experience of what I will be going in to. As you point out, the weather will not be consistent, but what we're looking forward to is being able to pick and choose. If the weather's poor in the UK and better in France, we'll go there. Likewise, if France gets too hot in the summer, we'll return to England.
I think the trailer idea is now well and truly shelved, so will look at the best way to travel down with my wife, dogs and multiple cars, initially at least, then perhaps consider France storage options. Thanks again.
Polite person - Thank you also for sharing your experiences - 800 - 1,250 miles in a day!!!! That's really going some, especially when you don't even look old enough to drive in that photo!!!! ????
Joking aside, we drove from East Sussex to Bordeaux in a day in our 5.0 Range Rover, and that was as much as I could manage (6am to 6pm), so you must have been mainlining coffee to do that.
It was good to read you comments though. We need to get a Tag on the next journey, my wife's getting really hacked off with the Tolls. Last visit was worse, as we took the dogs in the Range Rover and fitted a roof box. We quickly learned, that if you go through the toll with a roof box, the sensors think you're a truck, so the machine dispenses the ticket about 7ft off the ground, not easy for my wife having to climb out and up through the passenger window.
No speeding tickets yet Polite Person, but only been back 5 days following our most recent visit, so some may follow.
Registering a car in France sounds like a headache, and one I'd rather avoid, thanks for the heads up on that.
I hope to spend more time on the N roads when we get the new house and are in less of a hurry. We used the Autoroutes for the most part on the last couple of trips - From what I've experienced so far, virtually all French roads are an absolute joy to drive on, a complete world away from the UK, and a great place for cars like 911's, where you can enjoy and appreciate the firmer suspension set ups, without being shaken to death!!
Braddo - You are right - Dogs do complicate matters, and based on your knowing comment, I suspect you're probably a dog owner yourself. We have two Pyrenean Mountain Dogs, one is 80kg, the other 60kg, so these are not easy creatures to travel with. I'm sure we'll come up with something, but as you suggest, it may be a case of alternating the cars.
Johnmaddox - Good point, my brother uses shipping containers for storing excess stock for his business, from what I understand, they're extremely secure things - Maybe a thought.
RiccardoG - Completely agree regarding returning to the EuroTunnel Terminal
Pete.g - Thank you for your advice earlier, some good and sensible points you make. I did think about an older Boxster, but I've got this 911 Cab on order, if I don't use it in France, I wont use it here. That said, I'll see how it all goes, if it becomes too much trouble, I may do as you suggest with a cheaper option, which I won't worry about and sell the 911 later.
Dammit - Thank you, good point. It might be worth looking into this - That said, because the house is in quite a rural location, get a car backwards and forwards could prove problematic.
Finally, thank you to all for your comments. They're all greatly appreciated.
On a slightly different note....... I think I'm going to change my 911 order from a Carrera 4S Cabriolet to a 911 Turbo Cabriolet.
I know the Turbo S is supposed to be the one to buy, but I prefer the squarer exhaust at the rear on the standard Turbo, (plus it's about 20k cheaper).
Does anyone think that a standard Turbo will be a mistake, in terms of future values and desirability, with the Turbo S being held in such high regard?
Edited by Mulsanne-Speed on Thursday 26th May 22:06
I did consider Ferrari Billy_whizzz, but decided reliability and larger dealer network would be better with Porsche.
You make good points Dammit and iguana, all things to consider and I'm glad you raised it, the last thing I want is a bill like that.
As we're buying a house in France, we'll be on a VLS-TS (Long Stay Visa / Residents Permit), this allows us to stay in the country for up to 12 months, I suspect the same would apply to the cars, but a valid point and one I'll certainly check in to.
You make good points Dammit and iguana, all things to consider and I'm glad you raised it, the last thing I want is a bill like that.
As we're buying a house in France, we'll be on a VLS-TS (Long Stay Visa / Residents Permit), this allows us to stay in the country for up to 12 months, I suspect the same would apply to the cars, but a valid point and one I'll certainly check in to.
Edited by Mulsanne-Speed on Sunday 29th May 11:27
Thanks for sharing RDMcg - To be honest, I think I've scrapped the idea of towing the trailer after all. Sounds like you've got a good procedure in place for safe towing, but as I'm not really a practical person, it just goes further to reinforce that it's probably not going to work for me.
Billy_Whizzzz, an older vehicle is still very much on the cards, and a strong possibility. Last Sunday we returned from a return trip to Tuscany with the dogs in our 15 year old Range Rover, which is still going strong. I'm not bothered what I drive as long as it gives me some kind of pleasure.
I'm going to proceed with my 911 order, upgrading it to a Turbo S, but whether or not that will be the car that's right for the house in France, remains to be seen. This post has been really useful though, and given me a lot to think about.
To be honest, as long as the roof comes off and I can drive 10 minutes each way to the nearest village for some pastries in the morning, then that's really all I need.
Billy_Whizzzz, an older vehicle is still very much on the cards, and a strong possibility. Last Sunday we returned from a return trip to Tuscany with the dogs in our 15 year old Range Rover, which is still going strong. I'm not bothered what I drive as long as it gives me some kind of pleasure.
I'm going to proceed with my 911 order, upgrading it to a Turbo S, but whether or not that will be the car that's right for the house in France, remains to be seen. This post has been really useful though, and given me a lot to think about.
To be honest, as long as the roof comes off and I can drive 10 minutes each way to the nearest village for some pastries in the morning, then that's really all I need.
findtomdotcom said:
Hey Billy, I would be very interested in knowing about driving to Greece. I am about to move out there and plan to move my Turbo and R8 out there back at least once a year. Might tow them or ship them?
I note the route you gave wasn’t the shortest and others has said travel via Italy. Is that because of safety?
Many thanks,
Tom
Safety and driving in Italy are two words that don't go together Tom, I returned last Sunday and it's absolutely mental!! I note the route you gave wasn’t the shortest and others has said travel via Italy. Is that because of safety?
Many thanks,
Tom
You'll get through it alright, but it's not what I'd call relaxing. I too, like Billy drove from England to Corfu a few years ago. You can get the ferry from Bari (or Brindisi I think), although I think Billy said he was getting a boat from further up now. I'm sure he'll come back to advise.
pete.g said:
That gives you quite a lot of scope - anything from a resto-mod MG, a Citroen DS Decapotable, a Mercedes SL (R109), Jaguar E Type, XK to a simple MX5.
LHD Boxster would be the default, but I’d love to see two PMD’s on the back seat of the Citroen as you wafted along, preferably wearing a Panama hat. Le Francais adorent la DS.
Pete, the dogs would love an open top car, as it is they love been on the move with their heads out the window - Would certainly look the part in a Citroen DS LHD Boxster would be the default, but I’d love to see two PMD’s on the back seat of the Citroen as you wafted along, preferably wearing a Panama hat. Le Francais adorent la DS.
I have thought about something older - The Citroen DS Decapatable is a stunning car and I'm sure it would make me popular with the locals. I've also love the 80's SL500, or perhaps a 964 Cab, but I worry about reliability issues with something old. I suppose such a car would be less of a concern in terms of theft, but then what do I do with the 911 Cab I've ordered, we all know the sun never shines in the UK! (although apparently there's going to be a heatwave tomorrow...... For one day!!).
Thank you also to Lemon Tart for the offer of driving the car down. It's very kind, but I don't even let the garage collect my cars for servicing, I'm just a bit funny like that.
Finally, thank you to all for your comments, they've been a big help, I love the Landy on the beach photo Billy_whizzzz. I've spent over a year of my life in Corfu and do love it. I miss the boat to Agni Bay on an evening and all the other beautiful coves with Tavernas along the coast, but I was quite ill a few years ago and there health care system is not the best...... Have they finished building that hospital yet between Gouvia and Corfu Town?
I think I'm actually going to do as Politeperson suggests and drive the 911 down on my own, probably in 2 x 90 day stints, between April and October, retuning halfway in order to remain insurance compliant.
Although I've decided against towing, hopefully this thread will be of some interest to others considering similar in the future.
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