Dealer Prices Increased For 981 CGTS - Reaction To 718 GTS?

[bo duke]

The OPC at Brooklands, Leeds, Wolverhampton, Nottingham and Cardiff have all increased the price of their used 981 Cayman GTS this month, which is the first time Ive seen that.
I'm guessing either 981 GTS prices are on the up (seems a bit unlikely so soon), or prices were artificially low prior to the 718 GTS launch (with dealers trying to shift stock in case the 718 GTS kicked the 981s into the dust)?

[bo duke]

I think people always pay a lot more for the best/rarest spec of a great car, even if it’s only slightly better. The spec gets even more important once they get old/maintenance costs start to climb, as they all cost the same to run. On some old muscle cars, people pay twice as much just because it came from the factory painted black?!
The GT4 will probably always fetch more than a GTS, but in my case, I came from a 996T and wanted something less uncompromising for road use, so not a GT4. Then realised there are only 140ish manual 981 CGTS vs. 500 manual GT4s. If you want PDK, then there are no GT4s, and the GTS is top of the tree.

[bo duke]

It’s possible, I’ve only really been looking at GTS. Is that A Thing then (putting prices up after Xmas, when most folks are skint)?

[bo duke]

I guess you can buy an older 981 S (2012, vs 2014 for the earliest GTS) so the perception is that average prices are much lower.
But restrict the search to 2014+ and stick a few choice options on (like the unicorn car) and the price goes up.
And its easy to underestimate the number of options on GTS / low probably of finding them all on an S / cost of adding them in the first place:
- Base Price: Cayman GTS Manual: £55,397
- Base Price: Cayman S Manual: £48,783

- PASM: £971
- Sport chrono package: £1,085 for manual (£1,376 for PDK)
- Sports exhaust: £1,530
- Black exhaust tips: Not available on S
- Power kit (+15 HP): Not available on S
- Middle radiator: Not available on S
- Sound symposer: Not available on S
- 20-inch Carrera S Wheels: £971
- SportDesign package (front/rear bumpers): £1,728
- Smoked tail lights: £299
- PDLS (Black Design): Not available on S, silver design is £477
- Sports seats plus: £1,291
- Full leather/alcantara interior: Not available on S, closest is full leather for £2,156
- Rooflining in alcantara: £684 (may have become standard later?)
- SportDesign steering wheel in alcantara: £259 for manual (£397 for PDK)
- Gear shift lever in alcantara: £405

So thats £10,970 of options on a manual, even more on a PDK. Before you even start adding PCM, climate, parking sensors and all the other stuff a lot of people would add to any 981.

[bo duke]

bcr5784 said:

If you really want all that stuff, then buy a GTS . But if you are a more level headed buyer you'd have to ask yourself whether you'd pay much (anything?) for some of it. And some of it - like alcantara gearlever and wheel (and for me 20" wheels, Sports exhaust, though many will take a different view ) you might prefer not to have. Personally there is only PASM and the sports wheel (not in alcantara) that I would choose anyway.

That’s my point really, most S will be lower spec’d, and if you are the type to want something approaching GTS spec, you could be waiting a really long time.
That said, any S is a fantastic car/nice place to be.

[bo duke]

Heathrow - out of interest, why did you pick an S over a GTS (given the spec you went for)?

[bo duke]

Heathrow said:

bo duke said:

Heathrow - out of interest, why did you pick an S over a GTS (given the spec you went for)?

Couple of reasons. At the time I was quoted a 9 month waiting list by the OPC which I thought was excessive. I also wasn't keen on the 20 inch alloys having had a couple of test drives. Not so much because of the ride as there is a polish to the PASM damping which makes the car very useable day to day(although the 19s are even better for this), the issue I had was more because of the tyre roar. NVH isn't the best in the 981 Cayman and I had planned the car to be a daily.

Cheers Heathrow, I can understand not wanting to wait, and the NVH thing. The GTS on 20" wheels is a magic carpet ride compared to my old 996T (which is why I love the 981s), but it does get noisy on concrete motorways. Would be interested in hearing one on 19" wheels now, I guess Id just assumed that all cars with a decent amount of rubber under them were noisy on bad surfaces. The 996T was slightly noisier I think, and my previous 350Z (on 18s as I remember) was noisier again, and on almost all surfaces not just concrete (I'd put it down to the lack of back seat sound deadening). I ended up trying different tyres to bring down the noise on the 350Z (Bridgestones seemed much better than Pirellis on that score).

[bo duke]

Heathrow said:

Having now lived with both a GT4 and the CS previously, the difference isn't quite the deal breaker I remembered on the test drive, so probably would have opted for the GTS if I had the choice again as I doubt the wait would have been as long as 9 months in the end. Good point about tyres, was never a big fan of the P-Zeros that the car came with but didn't get the chance to try anything else before I sold the car. By way of comparison, driving a 991 back-to-back and there is a massive amount more rear sound proofing in big brother, and also you are that little bit further removed in distance from the engine and exhaust. The downside being you get less induction/engine/exhaust noise in the cabin.

I'm not a fan of P-zeros either - Ive had them on a few cars but always found them a bit noisy, and easily bested in the wet - like the compound is too hard. They are a normally a lot cheaper than the Michelin PS tyres though that everyone rates on 911s. I tend to gravitate to Bridgestone Potenzas, as they aren't too expensive or loud, and feel reassuring in the wet.

911-wise, I wanted a Carrera 2S when I bought the 996T, but was scared off by the 997 engine issues. Then had a couple of 991.1s as loaners and they left me cold - a bit TOO refined/GT-esque for my taste. Ive since driven 991.2s though (with the later turbo engine) on 2 Prescott Porsche track days, and they were my favourite cars of the day - really crisp handling, and more exciting than even the 718s there (which were also great fun, but had a bit less poke/more lag). Was never sure if its a track vs road thing though, or whether they injected a bit more chutzpah into the 991.2s. Will be really interesting to blag one as a loaner, and see how it compares to the 981.

Edited by bo duke on Thursday 11th January 10:17

[bo duke]

Hollaway said:

Anyone looked at the cayman GTS on autoT? White one up for 51,970.

Higher miles but nice spec. What you pay for it?

Hi Holloway, if its the one at UKI Sudbury, its been for sale since about 20/10/17 and started at £52,970.
No Gucci options (e.g. PCCB, PTV, GTS interior pack or adaptive/bucket seats), but has PCM, heated seats and the GTS exterior pack - so not bad.
Haven't seen one with that many miles before (50k), but Id say £51,970 is a bit high - and more than an OPC would charge (with a 2 year warranty thrown in).
e.g. There was a 2016 (65 plate) manual, with 30k miles, in GT silver, with GTS interior pack, at OPC Sheffield 3 months ago for £53,990. And a PDK CGTS with 30k miles in red with PTV, at OPC West London 2 months ago for £49,935.
Id be aiming to get it for £50k max. Which they might be open to, now they've had it a few months.
If they stick at £51-52k, there are a few cars around £54k that Id be going to see first - on OPC and Autotrader.

Good luck!

[bo duke]

Hollaway said:

How much to you think it will be worth in one year with 55k on the clock? Would you guys buy it and if so how much would you pay to retain as much money as possible on resale.
...
I’m a 981 cgts fan so I would prefer one of them but just not willing to pay near 60k for one. I’ve seen the cgts’s on autoT just below the one I’m looking at but the spec isn’t nice on the blue one and the other white one from OPC hasn’t got pasm which is a must for me. The others on there are just to much money for me.

Assuming you'd be selling privately, I reckon you'd probably be advertising for £45k in a year. Which will make it one of the cheapest available, though as folks have said, may not be huge market for big miles.

What about the red PDK one on autotrader at Kingsbury Hampton? Its on for £54,950, but its been up for sale since October, and only done 12k miles. Nice spec too (GTS interior and adaptive seats, plus GTS exterior pack, climate and PCM by the looks). They might take a cheeky offer around £52k?

Or the Carmine red manual on autotrader at Vogue? That's on for £54,890, which seems high given non-OPC and the miles (27.9k). I think it looks cracking, and suspects manuals will hold their value better long term, because they are so rare.

Edited by bo duke on Saturday 13th January 16:42

[bo duke]

Maybe also consider the risk of needing a clutch replacement around 50k+ miles, which is a grand you could put toward a lower mileage car?

[bo duke]

Hollaway said:

Would you pay 48k/49k for it? I don’t plan on doing more the 5k miles on it and only plan on owning it a year.

Its a strange phenomena, but I think Porsche folk are generally wary of private sales (not sure why, Id always much rather meet the previous owner).

Ive seen very few GTS for sale privately so far, and they've been at least 2-3k cheaper than dealer prices. With high miles, people may want even more off, to compensate for the additional (perceived) risk, unless its a particularly rare spec car and they have no dealer option.
e.g. a private BGTS with 22k miles went on in August last year for £54.5k, but was still for sale and down to £49k by the time it disappeared in January.

To be honest, I think you'd only get £47-48k (for a £50k dealer car) if you sold it the next day privately. From there, I think the depreciation would be pretty good if you got a car with the right spec. Probably only another grand or two over the year, which is pretty good for a car that new/at that price.

Easiest way to avoid depreciation is probably to buy privately, at the lower price.

Edited by bo duke on Saturday 13th January 17:24

[bo duke]

Hollaway said:

Completely understand all what you’ve said. Lol everyone keeps going around my question. What do you think that car is worth... The white cgts on autoT for £51,970 with 49600miles and 3 owners. What would you say is a good/great price to pay for it and what would it be worth in a year with 5k more miles?

£49-50k now - depending on how much you love the spec (you will love the car - they're utterly brilliant).
£45k when you sell it privately in a year.

Go for it. I'd happily pay £5k for my first year in mine. Don't pay £52k though, the miles are high, and you will find something better privately for les money, and suffer less depreciation.

[bo duke]

...or just buy it, suck up £7k depreciation, and live the dream for a year.
To be honest, I don't reckon you'd sell it after a year anyway, as I'm struggling to think of anything better. So the initial hit on depreciation will even out after a couple of years anyway.
Apologies, I have embibed.

Edited by bo duke on Saturday 13th January 22:19

[bo duke]

Early reviews on the 718GTS have been out for a while, no miraculous exhaust note change, or looming threat to 981GTS prices.
But agree selling a Porsche privately can be tough, and a lot will want lower miles on a £40-50k car.
But a 55k mile/£45k GTS will also probably be cheapest on market, and still probably quite reliable. So suspect will sell ok, as long as you aren’t in a hurry.

New Alpine is interesting isn’t it? I’d love a go, but couldn’t imagine actually buying one for anywhere near £50k. Because...Lotus/Old Alpines. I shouldn’t say that out loud should I? It’s the magic whiskey talking.

Edited by bo duke on Saturday 13th January 23:24

[bo duke]

Lol. And while we’re at it, you’ve had a 981S already. A GTS ain’t that different. Why not try something else, like a 991, 996T, C63, GTR, or new alpine?
You’ve got me thinking now - £50k to spend on something for 1 year, but can’t be a 981, or depreciate like a stone.

[bo duke]

Hollaway said:

Haha the alpine is like a 3/4 hard on...

That properly made me titter.
I was squinting at 991S before buying the GTS, and sure I saw some that looked great on paper for 60k?
Agree on GTR but for different reasons (too huge/win button). Can’t help thinking R32 GTR will be worth a fortune one day though, very cool in dark grey/original spec.
Whatever GTS you buy, I reckon it will be hard to beat for overall depreciation/running costs, for such a new car. They still sell for more than they cost 2 years ago. GT4s sell for way more but they feel more volatile as a used buy than GTS.

[bo duke]

The 991S that springs to mind at £60k was an agate grey manual with black leather at cridfords. The 991.1 loaners I’ve had were too comfy-GT/ less fun than 981 though.
On the white GTS, I reckon you’ve already mentally bought it. Just try to get them down to £50k fer chrissake, or you’ll lose your ass when you trade it in on a 991 in 12 months time ;-)