Aquaplaned

[ATM]

Hit a big puddle and car went light. Rotated slightly and then exited puddle pointing towards central reservation. I was initially in lane 2 before puddle but then when car gripped again I crossed lane 3 quickly. Managed to prevent impact with central barrier but had right wheels on the grass or whatever it is. Went back towards centre of motorway but too much momentum in the back of the car / angle for me or my skill set. I think I did a bit of a swing one way then the next and then started heading towards the verge and the grass. That's when I decided I was out of time and slammed on the brakes. When car stopped after a bit of cross country I honestly thought I'd saved it and was thinking I was lucky. I was thinking I could drive or limp the car to somewhere a bit safer until I got out and saw this

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Goodyear Eagles. I was actually deliberating last week if I should switch to my winter wheel and tyre combo but decided it wasn't quite cold enough yet. I'm going to guess that they would have been the better tyres on the day.

I think the rear of the car clipped a sign post which is what ripped the wheel off. Possibly at a bit of an angle as the front of the car was fine. If I had been a few inches further to the left then I could have hit that same post with the front corner and either spun round or flipped the car over. Both of which make me think yes, I definitely feel lucky.

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I've not measured the depth recently and would have had a good look at them if I had switched to the winter setup. Goodyear Eagles don't really have lateral grooves across the whole tyre - there are some. When new they have some lateral slits which are not deep and don't go from groove to groove. Google image below of a slimmer tyre.

But yes they are worn a bit. They've been on the car for maybe 3000 to 4000 miles. We can't all have new tyres all the time. Any car will aqua plain with whatever tyre given the right variables of speed of car and weight (maybe down force) and depth of water.

These light sports cars with fat tyres are more susceptible.

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Porsche911R said:

Olivera said:

If they are Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2/3 then they are *superb* in the wet, A rated wet weather performance and rated best wet weather tyre by Evo magazine in 2018.

I suspect here they've been ran down to low tread depth and there just hasn't been enough depth to clear the standing water.

if they were N spec which I would say they were, they would not be a new style tyre, so cannot go on 2018 tyre tests people still fit PS2's !!!

tread looks ok in the pics, just to fast for the conditions, it seems. Also Good years go of even with over 3mm left, I binned mine on my R after a while as I just got fed up with no traction when the 1st few mm had worn off them

Unlike a PS4S most tyres are poor below 3mm. A PS4S works to the legal limit very well a big selling point.

Yes n0. The tyre tests are never performed with an n0 so they will use the standard eagles. We don't know what Porsche n rating does to affect the wet weather performance but like I say if you hit deep water it's almost irrelevant what tyres are on the car.

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I wasn't speeding. It was really peesing it down so poor visibility.

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nickpan said:

colin_p said:

Glad you are ok, but....

Looking at that damage, it just doesn't look quite right. Complete speculation but something major may have let go on the rear suspension and caused this rather than aquaplaning.

Again, complete total and utter speculation.

Why are we not discussing this? What makes you think this? I’m interested.

Are suspension components designed to sheer now like this if given a sudden impact with enough force. If the wheel had not come off then maybe the car would have bounced or behaved differently. I don't want to go on about F1 but the suspension on those is designed to snap rather than send the force into the cockpit right?

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colin_p said:

rdjohn said:

colin_p said:

Glad you are ok, but....

Looking at that damage, it just doesn't look quite right. Complete speculation but something major may have let go on the rear suspension and caused this rather than aquaplaning.

Again, complete total and utter speculation.

The damage in the photo does not really match your description of what probably happened.

Driving through standing water is scary, but the front wheels tends to clear water for the rears, so you would need to be accelerating or braking quite hard to seriously defeat the stability system.

Aquaplaning normally causes front-wheel loss of grip. Loosing a rear wheel makes you a passenger.

They were my thoughts.

The OP in the OP didn't mention actually hitting anything other than doing a bit of off roading.

The impact marks / dent on the rear wing look like they were caused by the wheel swinging round and hitting it.

Quite what would would cause the whole rear suspension to be ripped off a car, without an impact is a bit baffling.

In my mind the damage does not match what is decribed as what happened but does look more like a falure (at just the wrong time) of a major suspension componet.

In that vein, I'd speculate by saying that I'd expect to see the CV joint ripped apart on the driveshaft and not what looks like the bare / splined end of the driveshaft. There is also not enough body damage to coincide with the forces needed to rip the wheel and complete suspension setup off of the car.


Again, all pure, total and utter speculation.

And again, OP I'm glad you are ok and that is all that really matters.

This was in my follow on post -

I think the rear of the car clipped a sign post which is what ripped the wheel off. Possibly at a bit of an angle as the front of the car was fine.

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rdjohn said:

So, one-week on. Have your repairers, or insurance come up with an explanation for why the wheel is not still attached to the chassis?

I am sure it is not a typical failure. Or caused by hitting a marker.

No news yet. I've shown the pic to some people who deal with damaged cars and they say this is not uncommon. Parts will fail given the right force. I didn't hit a marker I hit a 6 foot high sign post.

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Yes that's what happened to me. Car just rotated. It's hard to explain if you don't have a video - thanks.

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LukeSi said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Very valid point. Shame we'll probably not find out. There is the dent in front of the arch that shows an impact with a pole but it looks like it bounced off the body work rather than the wheel.

OP you don't have any more photos do you? From what I can tell on that picture the wheel isn't damaged on the face but obviously we only have a partial view.

It didn't spin. My modest driving skills kept it pointing straight-ish. It did fish tail a bit that's all.

No more pics. The Highways agency people wanted to move me on asap so I sought refuge at the services. By the time the truck arrived it was dark.

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LukeSi said:

In that case i genuinely think there has been a mechanical failure then, looks like you hit the post with the body work and it bounced off and not even that hard.
I'd be tempted to try and get porsche involved if it's in warranty.
I'd imagine if it's enough to rip a wheel off you'd feel it and have mentioned it.

Edited by LukeSi on Sunday 23 December 09:39

I disagree. I genuinely believe that the car hit the post at a small angle and the brunt of the force impacted on the tyre tread just inside the arch which ripped it clean off. The car didn't glide along the grass smoothly. It was a bumpy ride. Adrenalin made me remember some heroic driving but I was just a passenger on the grass. I did see a bent post further up the road behind me and it was bent in the direction I had travelled.

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Car definitely a total loss according to assessment of body repair place. Not talked numbers with insurance company yet.

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Digga said:

ATM said:

Car definitely a total loss according to assessment of body repair place. Not talked numbers with insurance company yet.

Surely not? We oinly have the one picture to go on, but it does not look that bad.

Quote from body shop for work to repair what is visible adds up to almost 20 grand. Then there is the unknown of what else.

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saaby93 said:

ATM said:

Digga said:

ATM said:

Car definitely a total loss according to assessment of body repair place. Not talked numbers with insurance company yet.

Surely not? We oinly have the one picture to go on, but it does not look that bad.

Quote from body shop for work to repair what is visible adds up to almost 20 grand. Then there is the unknown of what else.

And they'll probably expect to get more for it as salvage so why bother repairing

What are you guys thinking the salvage value would be then?

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Went to see the wreck today and collect my belongings. Car looked very sad sat on the ground missing a wheel. Even the good side is almost on the ground due to anti roll bar etc.

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I've created this pic to illustrate the damage or how the wheel came off. This is / was a pic of the correct part from eBay. So this is looking from inside the car outwards. There were 3 points of failure only.

1. The strut snapped where the rod narrowed to enter the top mount. I've tried to illustrate this in black - badly. I think this is called a McPherson setup but I'm not definite.

2. The section which juts out to the left failed, it snapped off roughly where the red line is. I'm not sure what the arm is called which connects to this. Is it tie rod?

3. The mount for the bottom ball joint snapped - again I've tried to illustrate in red. The nut is still on the ball joint and holding the broken piece of hub.

All arms which held the hub to the car are still connected to the car and feel solid. The strut piston / rod snapped flush where it enters the top mount.

I think that explains everything. Does this make sense?

[ATM]

So to reconnect the wheel to the car I think all that's needed is -

1. new hub carrier as per that pic

2. new strut / shock

3. Spring - which has gone missing

4. Brake pipe/s

5. Handbrake cable

6. Drive shaft looks ok but rubber boot has split - not sure if the shaft and half shaft is salvageable.

So assuming the rest is ok -

Arms + tie tod
Brake caliper, disc and handrake parts
Whatever sensor/s for abs and psm
Wheel itself - could be buckled

So in parts I think that's less than a grand and the wheel is on. Then we can answer the question of will the car drive - is the engine + gearbox + everything underneath the car ok.

Then all that remains is question of if car is straight or needs jigging.

Then bodywork.

Done

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I've asked the insurance company about buying back the wreckage. Has anyone here done anything like that?

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saaby93 said:

ATM said:

I've asked the insurance company about buying back the wreckage. Has anyone here done anything like that?

If youre that keen on keeping it why dont you tell them not to repair it, not to pay out against it and you'll have it back.
Then get the few bits and fix it yourself - assuming it hasnt bent any chassis work

I'm not necessarily keen on keeping it, I'm just curious and want to know their asking price. If it's super cheap I'll have it. Otherwise they can just pay me and that's that.

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Slippydiff said:

When I wrote my GT3 off, I bought the salvage off the insurer for 10% of the amount they paid out (which was less than the car’s worth) doing so enabled me to sell the salvage at a profit and effectively regain the full value of the car pre-accident.

Thanks

I'm a bit concerned about insurance or insuring the wreck. Many many years ago my Renault 5 turbo was damaged and while outside my home waiting for the insurance to figure out what to do the wreck was stolen by some guys in a truck. They had the balls to knock on my neighbours door and explain they had been asked to collect it. Someone told me once you are paid out for a write off your insurance policy is then cancelled. I'm presuming it's the same if you buy back the wreck too.