981 CGTS vs 718 CGTS 4.0 steering
Discussion
I'm currently running a 2014 981 CGTS, manual. I'm considering switching to the new 4.0.
I'm interested primarily in any steering feedback changes between the two cars. Have Porsche significantly improved the steering "feel"? Any input from people who've driven both would be much appreciated.
I'm interested primarily in any steering feedback changes between the two cars. Have Porsche significantly improved the steering "feel"? Any input from people who've driven both would be much appreciated.
Steve Rance said:
Mmmm
Nor sure how the 996RS and 997 GT31 are so different in your world. The 997 shares the same suspension pick up points and geometry as the 996RS. The only difference is the PASM (sporn of the devil) system.
To the OP. You are best advised to try both and decide which you prefer. I always prefer the car to gice me as much feedback as possible through the wheel, leaving me to decide what does or doesnt require my imput. The best steering that ive ever experienced in a GT car was the 996RS. Beautifully judged for my requirments. Certainly not as 911R says. But then it was a car designed without any driving aids other than ABS and a LSD - so it relied of it's chasis relaying as much information back to the driver as possible as he or she was the only imput source. With the advent of driver aiding systems, the primary imput source is generally an electronic sensor rather than the driver so steering feedback is not quite as essential as it was in non aided cars. Bear in mind that electronic steering is also 'aided' so to an extent its similar to BMW's exhaust music filtered through audio speakers. It's all a bit smoke and mirrors.
Thanks for the input. FWIW, the best steering feel I've experienced was in my E36 328i coupe, many years ago. Coincidentally, all that had was ABS and a LSD. I often regret selling that car.Nor sure how the 996RS and 997 GT31 are so different in your world. The 997 shares the same suspension pick up points and geometry as the 996RS. The only difference is the PASM (sporn of the devil) system.
To the OP. You are best advised to try both and decide which you prefer. I always prefer the car to gice me as much feedback as possible through the wheel, leaving me to decide what does or doesnt require my imput. The best steering that ive ever experienced in a GT car was the 996RS. Beautifully judged for my requirments. Certainly not as 911R says. But then it was a car designed without any driving aids other than ABS and a LSD - so it relied of it's chasis relaying as much information back to the driver as possible as he or she was the only imput source. With the advent of driver aiding systems, the primary imput source is generally an electronic sensor rather than the driver so steering feedback is not quite as essential as it was in non aided cars. Bear in mind that electronic steering is also 'aided' so to an extent its similar to BMW's exhaust music filtered through audio speakers. It's all a bit smoke and mirrors.
Romo said:
My previous 981 CGTS was on Pireli tires, also enhanced the horible Ackerman effect.
The steering;
1 Very slow initial steering response, like in a slow motion.Really nothing happend, the Cayman is a Go-Cart, so it has to behave like one; steering action=steering reaction, but it was far from it.On initial steering input it felt like a super tanker.
2 The self-centering force to strong, on high turning speeds I always had the feeling to fight with the steering input
My soulution to this annoying behavior; I sold the car.
Waitiing now for the GT4 PDK, November 30th it will be produced
I take it the 718 GT4 has better steering? Have you tried other variants?The steering;
1 Very slow initial steering response, like in a slow motion.Really nothing happend, the Cayman is a Go-Cart, so it has to behave like one; steering action=steering reaction, but it was far from it.On initial steering input it felt like a super tanker.
2 The self-centering force to strong, on high turning speeds I always had the feeling to fight with the steering input
My soulution to this annoying behavior; I sold the car.
Waitiing now for the GT4 PDK, November 30th it will be produced
That sounds amazing, I'm slightly green.
Come to think of it, I've had 718 Boxsters as loan cars, but I was so put off by the engine noise that I don't remember anything much about the steering.
I don't find the 981 steering quite so terrible, but it's also obvious that there is room for improvement with the feel, hence my question.
Come to think of it, I've had 718 Boxsters as loan cars, but I was so put off by the engine noise that I don't remember anything much about the steering.
I don't find the 981 steering quite so terrible, but it's also obvious that there is room for improvement with the feel, hence my question.
I must confess that I've never noticed the very strong self-centering forces which you encountered, and as for turning-in "like a supertanker", I have the opposite experience. The 981 is very eager to turn-in.
Here's Harris on the turn-in characteristics of a 981 S:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT2wkhg6LTQ&t=...
The only criticism of the steering I have is a relative lack of feel.
Here's Harris on the turn-in characteristics of a 981 S:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT2wkhg6LTQ&t=...
The only criticism of the steering I have is a relative lack of feel.
Porsche911R said:
an est lap I think that car can do BTG and how easy he is driving it as is.
7:55 for a 981 Shttps://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-cayman-s-98...
Carry on.
Rich.H said:
Steering feel? Well, I have been reading this thread since the start and expected there to be night and day difference based on some comments. I have to say, I did not find it. Better, yes, in my view, but I didn’t suddenly regret the 30k miles in a 981. Maybe I have wooden hands (although a PEC instructor did comment once on my “good hands”....!!??)
The roads were damp today. It wasn’t my car and I was on the public roads so not exactly pushing on. Oh, and it was on PZeros in case you wanted to know
So there you go, just an opinion from a brief, recent experience
Rich
Thanks. I've owned my 981 CGTS for nearly three years. The steering isn't terrible, I was just wondering/hoping that the 718 steering feel might be better, but if there's not much in it, I'll probably not bother "upgrading".The roads were damp today. It wasn’t my car and I was on the public roads so not exactly pushing on. Oh, and it was on PZeros in case you wanted to know
So there you go, just an opinion from a brief, recent experience
Rich
FWIW, I previously owned a 997 C2S, and the steering feel wasn't too great in that. Best steering feels I've experienced have been in front-engined cars - an old 924 and an E36 BMW.
Stunters said:
I did over 120 miles in the GTS 4.0 in two separate test drives, and it was more than enough to tempt me out of my 981 GT4.
The 981 GT4 has the front end of a GT3, and a bespoke GT3-style rear suspension, AIUI.Do you think the steering & handling of the new GTS 4.0 is better than the 981 GT4?
Rich.H said:
As a complete package, in my opinion, the 718 GTS 4.0 is a significant step on from the 981 GTS (see my comments on the 718 GTS thread).
Whether it is worth the cost to swap is something I will need to consider. Or whether this changes my original plan of replacing my 981 with a Carrera T......
Try and give one a go and make your own mind up?
Rich
Porsche911R said:
so it has adjustable front LCA and nothing like 911 rear suspension which is multilink.
people saying trick sus or a GT3 front end is not the B all imo, not much great about a GT3 front end !
what I did like on the GT4 is the ESC, the GTS always has crap PSM.
it's very hard to know how far they have gone with the GTS, I def would not be tracking one over a GT4 as you cannot get the camber
but you can fit GT3 LCA arms I guess.
Is a GTS more GT4 spec or just a GTS with 4.0l engine. they fixed the engine but left the 10 year old gear box in it !
If you like PDK then imo you are in for a treat if you like manual it's sill a halfway house and just buy a GT3.
It's great to have your expert input.people saying trick sus or a GT3 front end is not the B all imo, not much great about a GT3 front end !
what I did like on the GT4 is the ESC, the GTS always has crap PSM.
it's very hard to know how far they have gone with the GTS, I def would not be tracking one over a GT4 as you cannot get the camber
but you can fit GT3 LCA arms I guess.
Is a GTS more GT4 spec or just a GTS with 4.0l engine. they fixed the engine but left the 10 year old gear box in it !
If you like PDK then imo you are in for a treat if you like manual it's sill a halfway house and just buy a GT3.
Koln-RS said:
Surely it’s largely subjective.
I had a 981S (20” wheels, PASM, GY F1s etc) as my daily, and I thought the steering was excellent.
Obviously not as sharp as some more focused sports cars such as an Elise or C7, but perfect for my purposes.
Some people set themselves up as experts, and make sweeping generalisations about all sorts of things on here. This is no exception.
True. I'll have a go after lockdown.I had a 981S (20” wheels, PASM, GY F1s etc) as my daily, and I thought the steering was excellent.
Obviously not as sharp as some more focused sports cars such as an Elise or C7, but perfect for my purposes.
Some people set themselves up as experts, and make sweeping generalisations about all sorts of things on here. This is no exception.
Lexington59 said:
Coming from a 987 I could never get on with the steering in the 981. It is definitely a lot better in the 718.
If you've only had a fairly limited exposure than maybe you could live with it. I couldn't.
Surprises me when people say it's marginal. Personally I think the difference is pretty noticeable.
I had four years using a 997 C2S as a daily driver, around 40k miles. So, limited exposure to Caymans before I bought one.If you've only had a fairly limited exposure than maybe you could live with it. I couldn't.
Surprises me when people say it's marginal. Personally I think the difference is pretty noticeable.
I've had a couple of 718s as courtesy cars, didn't notice particularly different steering, I must confess. Hence the question about the new one.
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