993 Wandering badly
Discussion
Have just driven up north for a few days and the journey up was put simply horrendous. The weather was shocking pretty much all the way and it felt like a white knuckle ride. Never been so glad to actually arrive somewhere when I was clearly looking forward to the drive beforehand...
Main issue being a big wander of the front end and I’m not talking the usual light front end of a 993, but wandering left and right. Very speed dependent. Never went more than 70 because the weather was so bad - torrential rain and surface water everywhere so I drove very cautiously and lots of other cars driving similar slow speeds (50 to 70) but also others going past at 85+
Well with what I was experiencing, 70 was at times ok, at others scary. Same could be said of 50. Something’s not right but I can’t put my finger on it - going to have it looked at in the morning because there’s no way I’m doing another 200 miles home under the same conditions!!!
It just felt like something has come adrift up front. Had it not been Boxing Day I would almost certainly have stopped and called the AA but half of me was blaming the conditions and the other half just wanted to get there. 100% sure now that it wasn’t just the conditions.
Any ideas???
Main issue being a big wander of the front end and I’m not talking the usual light front end of a 993, but wandering left and right. Very speed dependent. Never went more than 70 because the weather was so bad - torrential rain and surface water everywhere so I drove very cautiously and lots of other cars driving similar slow speeds (50 to 70) but also others going past at 85+
Well with what I was experiencing, 70 was at times ok, at others scary. Same could be said of 50. Something’s not right but I can’t put my finger on it - going to have it looked at in the morning because there’s no way I’m doing another 200 miles home under the same conditions!!!
It just felt like something has come adrift up front. Had it not been Boxing Day I would almost certainly have stopped and called the AA but half of me was blaming the conditions and the other half just wanted to get there. 100% sure now that it wasn’t just the conditions.
Any ideas???
Polome said:
A few years ago I had a 89' 3.2 911... if it was wet and windy on the motorway 75 was the limit without feeling uncomfortable due to having to fight the car all the time. We had a Polo Gti at the same time and in the same conditions it would track straight and true at 85 and beyond. In the dry all was well in the 911 ?as the car was in 1 st class mechanical nick and alignment spot on had to put it down to early 911 driving charateristics. Please don't be offended but I ask if you are a regular driver of the car or do you drive moderns all week? and are being surprised ( worried) how vintage the 993 feels under certain conditions...other than that of course it could easily be steering joints wear...good luck & enjoy the drive home. Ian
Thanks, no offence taken. I do drive a new Golf most of the time, but this just felt downright unsafe - towards the end of the journey I could be doing just 40mph and it would move off track without warning - was really unnerving!I’ve just changed the tyres and wondering if that could really make such a difference. It was just such an unpleasant drive , and when I was really looking forward to being up here in it! :sad:
Going to try and get it looked at whilst up here.
Thanks to all for the many replies - gotta love this site, full of helpful people! Sorry I went quiet - poor signal where I was staying most of the time.
I had the car thoroughly checked over - v happy with the guy who looked it over (he came recommended). He's checked everything that's been mentioned by you all and found nothing sinister other than a bit of pressure difference between the fronts. As one of you has said, having just changed the tyres it's just too much of a coincidence to me.
The drive back down, was better, probably because I'm partly getting used to it and partly because having had it checked over I wasn't worried about a wheel coming off at 70mph... However it's still not right, so I'm putting it down to the tyres.
Now for the controversial admission, which I'm sure I'll be shot down in flames for... I got he tyres on Ebay to save a few quid as I'm not expecting to do massive miles in it as it's a second car. My thinking was part-worn premium has to be better than new budget brand if I'm going to go down that route. I know, you don't know the tyres' history and it's the only contact between you and the road etc etc, but I also think how many people buy a used car and immediately change all four tyres just because they don't know the tyres' history? None I'm guessing... Anyway, I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and put two new tyres on the front anyway to put my mind at rest and hopefully cure the issue - will let you know how I get on.
And to the salute for using it this time of year, thanks! Not the ideal car for Peak District and Cotswolds in the snow!!!
I had the car thoroughly checked over - v happy with the guy who looked it over (he came recommended). He's checked everything that's been mentioned by you all and found nothing sinister other than a bit of pressure difference between the fronts. As one of you has said, having just changed the tyres it's just too much of a coincidence to me.
The drive back down, was better, probably because I'm partly getting used to it and partly because having had it checked over I wasn't worried about a wheel coming off at 70mph... However it's still not right, so I'm putting it down to the tyres.
Now for the controversial admission, which I'm sure I'll be shot down in flames for... I got he tyres on Ebay to save a few quid as I'm not expecting to do massive miles in it as it's a second car. My thinking was part-worn premium has to be better than new budget brand if I'm going to go down that route. I know, you don't know the tyres' history and it's the only contact between you and the road etc etc, but I also think how many people buy a used car and immediately change all four tyres just because they don't know the tyres' history? None I'm guessing... Anyway, I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and put two new tyres on the front anyway to put my mind at rest and hopefully cure the issue - will let you know how I get on.
And to the salute for using it this time of year, thanks! Not the ideal car for Peak District and Cotswolds in the snow!!!
PH5121 said:
I've always used N rated Bridgestones on my 993, but my dad bought a 993 turbo fitted with the same tyres you have. He took them off and threw them away as they were terrible.
Hopefully new tyres will solve the issue.
Interesting. Anyone else with experience of P Zeros on a 993 C2? Good and bad?Hopefully new tyres will solve the issue.
911Al said:
Just an idea but have you tried driving it with a full tank. In my experience air cooled 911s ride better with a bit of weight up front.
Good point, but yes it was a long journey all round so had a full tank, plus luggage under the bonnet too (although I appreciate a couple of bags of clothes don’t actually weigh that much!)Had no time free to take any action yet, but promise to report in when I do.
Hi all
Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions. All fixed now and running as it should do. Took a while to get taken care of as so busy...
So, here comes big time confession of what's probably sacrilege to most Porsche owners by way of an explanation of what had gone wrong...
In order to save a few pennies (I've overstretched myself buying the car in the first place, but it was EXACTLY what I've been looking for since I sold the last 993 in 2006 and when I saw it advertised I kind of knew I'd find a way to buy it whether I could afford it or not...), when it came to replacing the tyres I went down the part worn route rather than budget brand, thinking that it would at least give me a well-developed product albeit with a shorter lifespan - shouldn't be an issue as it's a second car so my mileage will be low. So 5/6mm part worn P Zeros all round in December... Then I got the issues that started this thread.
So, when I finally got round to looking at resolving the wandering last week, I thought I'd give another pair or part worns a go at the front to see if it cured the issue. £190 for the pair (P Zero N2s again) this time with 7mm tread, instead of around £165 each. So took it to the place selling them to be fitted and he showed me the tyres before fitting them and they immediately appeared to me so much better (newer, better condition rubber) than the others that I'd received in the post and had fitted locally. Go for it I said. It was then that they pointed out I needed to look at the back ones too. "Don't want to change them just yet thanks - they were only put on recently."
"No, really" they said, "you need to look at them!" So I did - slicks!!! The part-worns with 5mm had done about 600 miles and completely worn away - and over half of that mileage was on the motorway! They must have been so old that the rubber had perished and the remaining tread just crumbled away...
Then they took off the fronts that I had been having issues with and in taking these off the rims to put their replacement ones on, they pulled me over to look at one of them which whilst using their machine to pull the tyre off, had exposed the metal structure beneath the tread because rather than the rubber flexing as it should under the machine, it had simply split!!!
So after a long discussion with the guy running the place I was at, he explained a bit about the part-worn tyre market. Turns out (if he's being straight and I tend to feel he was) that many of the part-worns coming to the UK from Europe are the worst available because the Europeans tend to keep the best for themselves. He, however, sources all his from much further afield and gets them in bulk from rental companies and fleets in other markets where they have to replace tyres on all their cars annually regardless of mileage. Certainly appears that way from the quality of the rubber on the tyres he's fitted on my car - which incidentally have completely resolved all its issues - I'm a happy driver again!!!
So in conclusion, if you do fancy buying part worns, do so carefully and be warned about the dangers to your health and your wallet of buying from just anyone. I'd buy from this guy again gladly, but I'd never just buy online again. If my fronts hadn't caused the issues to start this thread I'd imagine I'd have been looking at a rear blowout sometime in the next month or so or sliding off the road somewhere.
Confession over.
Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions. All fixed now and running as it should do. Took a while to get taken care of as so busy...
So, here comes big time confession of what's probably sacrilege to most Porsche owners by way of an explanation of what had gone wrong...
In order to save a few pennies (I've overstretched myself buying the car in the first place, but it was EXACTLY what I've been looking for since I sold the last 993 in 2006 and when I saw it advertised I kind of knew I'd find a way to buy it whether I could afford it or not...), when it came to replacing the tyres I went down the part worn route rather than budget brand, thinking that it would at least give me a well-developed product albeit with a shorter lifespan - shouldn't be an issue as it's a second car so my mileage will be low. So 5/6mm part worn P Zeros all round in December... Then I got the issues that started this thread.
So, when I finally got round to looking at resolving the wandering last week, I thought I'd give another pair or part worns a go at the front to see if it cured the issue. £190 for the pair (P Zero N2s again) this time with 7mm tread, instead of around £165 each. So took it to the place selling them to be fitted and he showed me the tyres before fitting them and they immediately appeared to me so much better (newer, better condition rubber) than the others that I'd received in the post and had fitted locally. Go for it I said. It was then that they pointed out I needed to look at the back ones too. "Don't want to change them just yet thanks - they were only put on recently."
"No, really" they said, "you need to look at them!" So I did - slicks!!! The part-worns with 5mm had done about 600 miles and completely worn away - and over half of that mileage was on the motorway! They must have been so old that the rubber had perished and the remaining tread just crumbled away...
Then they took off the fronts that I had been having issues with and in taking these off the rims to put their replacement ones on, they pulled me over to look at one of them which whilst using their machine to pull the tyre off, had exposed the metal structure beneath the tread because rather than the rubber flexing as it should under the machine, it had simply split!!!
So after a long discussion with the guy running the place I was at, he explained a bit about the part-worn tyre market. Turns out (if he's being straight and I tend to feel he was) that many of the part-worns coming to the UK from Europe are the worst available because the Europeans tend to keep the best for themselves. He, however, sources all his from much further afield and gets them in bulk from rental companies and fleets in other markets where they have to replace tyres on all their cars annually regardless of mileage. Certainly appears that way from the quality of the rubber on the tyres he's fitted on my car - which incidentally have completely resolved all its issues - I'm a happy driver again!!!
So in conclusion, if you do fancy buying part worns, do so carefully and be warned about the dangers to your health and your wallet of buying from just anyone. I'd buy from this guy again gladly, but I'd never just buy online again. If my fronts hadn't caused the issues to start this thread I'd imagine I'd have been looking at a rear blowout sometime in the next month or so or sliding off the road somewhere.
Confession over.
Slippydiff said:
Madness. Really not sure why you’d even consider using second hand tyres on a 170mph car, let alone one that’s known to have very specific handling “traits”.
Glad to hear you’ve got the problem sorted, but I’d have question the mentality of saving a few quid on the only thing that keeps your car stuck to the road.
I knew I'd get slated and totally get what you're saying, but I don't drive it at 170mph for starters!Glad to hear you’ve got the problem sorted, but I’d have question the mentality of saving a few quid on the only thing that keeps your car stuck to the road.
My other thought is that had I bought the car with 5/6mm of tread on N rated tyres then I wouldn't go out and replace them straight away. So if I can get tyres that have 5/6mm of tread and are N rated from a source (now!) that I trust then that's £400 of fuel or whatever else I want to spend it on.
Thanks SRT. Always thought honesty is the best policy.
I'm actually confident in the life these have had and it's a short one at that as they're 2017 tyres (date code on them) and having spoken at length to the dealer who has a large well set-up outfit I am at least as confident in them as I would be in tyres that came on a used car that could have been on there for years. Again, in such a case anything could have happened to them but I think we can agree 90% of us would leave tyres on a used car we'd bought if they're a quality brand and appear fine with good tread.
Suspension on mine has been fully redone with adjustable H&R all round so she's handling nicely now.
Thanks all.
I'm actually confident in the life these have had and it's a short one at that as they're 2017 tyres (date code on them) and having spoken at length to the dealer who has a large well set-up outfit I am at least as confident in them as I would be in tyres that came on a used car that could have been on there for years. Again, in such a case anything could have happened to them but I think we can agree 90% of us would leave tyres on a used car we'd bought if they're a quality brand and appear fine with good tread.
Suspension on mine has been fully redone with adjustable H&R all round so she's handling nicely now.
Thanks all.
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