Looking at a 964 C2
Discussion
I'm sat sitting on a wad of cash after selling my 996t and I'm itching to buy a 964 (ideally a C2).
I have noticed the market is softening quite a bit, with cars not really shifting very quickly? I put a couple of feelers out with the usual suspects and they all jumped on the idea of someone willing to buy.
I've just seen this advert, and I'm really considering it as it's relatively cheap considering it has low(ish) miles, good service history and appears to be in lovely condition. Does anyone know the car? or any advice?
https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/porsche/911/2...
I have noticed the market is softening quite a bit, with cars not really shifting very quickly? I put a couple of feelers out with the usual suspects and they all jumped on the idea of someone willing to buy.
I've just seen this advert, and I'm really considering it as it's relatively cheap considering it has low(ish) miles, good service history and appears to be in lovely condition. Does anyone know the car? or any advice?
https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/porsche/911/2...
SRT Hellcat said:
There is a mint black one for sale. Magnolia interior. Non sunroof. RS rear bumper. 17" cups with cup mirrors. 1992 from memory. Give Chris a call at 911 bodyshop on 02089000572. It is a customers car. I would have been interested for myself but I currently have too many cars.
That sounds out of my price range I reckon! 😂 Back to the drawing board for me!
Koln-RS said:
The problem with the aircooled cars was prices escalated very quickly - and this included a lot of very suspect and average examples.
U think buyers are now a bit more savvy. The best cars will still get snapped up quickly, but I'd be wary of anything that didn't tick all the important boxes, as the rectification costs are high.
Yeh, I've noticed that! U think buyers are now a bit more savvy. The best cars will still get snapped up quickly, but I'd be wary of anything that didn't tick all the important boxes, as the rectification costs are high.
I do have an opportunity on a cheap c2 (same price as the above) , but it does need work done on it (2x rear quarters and LHS scuttle). Probably at least 3k worth of bodywork, so would want to at least budget twice that much.
The good news is its had all the suspension, coolant pipes, brake lines, brakes and discs completely replaced. The engine came out and was resealed, although it didn't get rebuilt as the analysis came back good.
Opinions? Initially I was put off by the bodywork issues but it seems everything else is in order, and it'll give me the opportunity to get it done properly
Thanks for the reply - I love that colour!
I viewed this which I'm very trempted, I quite like the high mileage!
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
But it is a C4 and does ultimately have silly miles on it, even though it's had a bunch of money spent on it.
Would you be able to PM me pictures of the body work? And how much it cost? I guess it'll give me a better feel for how much I should budget too
I viewed this which I'm very trempted, I quite like the high mileage!
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
But it is a C4 and does ultimately have silly miles on it, even though it's had a bunch of money spent on it.
Would you be able to PM me pictures of the body work? And how much it cost? I guess it'll give me a better feel for how much I should budget too
RT964 said:
Just tried to PM you, but got an error message saying you weren't allowing emails ?
Woops, I've updated that! I'm not interested in the cab or Targa versions, the aesthetics are important to me and I love the coupe.
I would definitely consider a C4, I would be looking to upgrade the suspension anyway, so this might be a good solution as there is a lot around.
roygarth said:
Make sure you take any C4 out for a spirited test drive before buying. 15+ years ago I didn't. Within 1 day of buying it I knew I'd made a mistake, sold it and bought a C2 - which I still own today! I found the understeer really took away too much from the enjoyment that a rear engine rear wheel drive 911 offers.
I feel like I wouldn't be comfortable test driving a car to that limit, especially with a car dealer telling me to be 'sensible'... Can the understeer not be tuned out with some better suspension?I'm so stuck on deciding between a c2 and a c4... The c2 is so much rarer and ill likely end up with a worse car for more money
Koln-RS said:
The 964 was very early 4WD technology and, although initially well received, it was eventually judged to be less nimble than the C2, which started the myth that even subsequent C2 variants were always better than C4s, even though the opposite was often true.
Nevertheless, there have been several articles about tuning the C4 suspension to reduce the understeer and improving the handling balance, so definitely worth talking to some of the renowned specialists, inc Chris at Centre Gravity.
I think I'd end up going down that route, which will cost a few grand, in which I should probably just invest in the "right" car to begin with! Nevertheless, there have been several articles about tuning the C4 suspension to reduce the understeer and improving the handling balance, so definitely worth talking to some of the renowned specialists, inc Chris at Centre Gravity.
Some absolutely brilliant replies, thanks to everyone! The c2/c4 debate is awkward but I think the following quote sums it up
I went and viewed a well priced off market c2 yesterday in hopes it would tick all the boxes. Unfortunately the car was in an absolute state, every panel had some form or corrosion and the rear of the car was completely gone. I'd of had to instantly plough (at least) £10k into a restoration which would then put it right into the market average. Pity as the seller had me believe the car was rough, which I'd of lived with, rather than almost in pieces.
The C4 I drove did have new suspension, and it certainly felt great, but having driven the C2 yesterday (which did have a nice RS set up) it was clear the c2 felt lighter at the wheel and more agile... I think if I'm going to pay in the region of 40+k for a car then I don't want to settle.
If I don't find anything immediately then hopefully the prices soften and something comes up, fortunately the Turbo is quite a nice car to keep in the meantime.
I'm gutted at how much the cars have increased in price, I was going to buy a cheap c2 coupe about 6 years ago, but used the money to go to University.. Dare I say the Porsche would have been a better investment!
porkey said:
Just my 2p for what it is worth...
I had a C4 many years ago and a chap I know had a C2 at the same time. The C2 felt much lighter to drive.
The C4 had heavier steering and just felt less nimble all round.
On a positive note there wasn't much to choose in outright straight line speed.
Although the C2 always felt quicker, there was very little to choose between them on the open road.
I'm not interested in speed, otherwise I'd keep the 996 Turbo, but I miss the light feel to driving around.I had a C4 many years ago and a chap I know had a C2 at the same time. The C2 felt much lighter to drive.
The C4 had heavier steering and just felt less nimble all round.
On a positive note there wasn't much to choose in outright straight line speed.
Although the C2 always felt quicker, there was very little to choose between them on the open road.
I went and viewed a well priced off market c2 yesterday in hopes it would tick all the boxes. Unfortunately the car was in an absolute state, every panel had some form or corrosion and the rear of the car was completely gone. I'd of had to instantly plough (at least) £10k into a restoration which would then put it right into the market average. Pity as the seller had me believe the car was rough, which I'd of lived with, rather than almost in pieces.
The C4 I drove did have new suspension, and it certainly felt great, but having driven the C2 yesterday (which did have a nice RS set up) it was clear the c2 felt lighter at the wheel and more agile... I think if I'm going to pay in the region of 40+k for a car then I don't want to settle.
If I don't find anything immediately then hopefully the prices soften and something comes up, fortunately the Turbo is quite a nice car to keep in the meantime.
I'm gutted at how much the cars have increased in price, I was going to buy a cheap c2 coupe about 6 years ago, but used the money to go to University.. Dare I say the Porsche would have been a better investment!
Iddingtons said:
That looks expensive. I sold (via SOR) my C2 manual (120k mileage) last year for a smidge under 40k and it didn't have any rust or paint problems.
In fact it was pretty mint with a complete service history!
Do kinda miss it....
I think I'll wait out for something similar.In fact it was pretty mint with a complete service history!
Do kinda miss it....
I've super tempted by the C4 here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
It has high mileage but a lot of money spent on it recently, which would fill me with some confidence.
I'm scared I'll regret not going for the C2 whilst I had the chance. I sort of already to that with the Turbo, as it's a Tip not a Manual.
Wozy68 said:
That is the problem with the age of the cars now.
Quite a few years back (at least eight), I was chatting to Adrian Crawford, and he told me if I was ever in the market for another 964, to remove the offside front wheel and the wheel lining, check for rust and push hard against the bulkhead.
He had come across 964s that bad with rot, that you can almost push your hand through, and he'd seen quite a lot with rust in this area.
No idea why the offside, and no idea why the 964 would rot there, as though it can suffer the same with the older models with rust under the headlamps and in the B pillars, the earlier cars as far as I know havent really suffered rust/rot in the bulkhead.
I would leave that for a specialist I think, but it was clear this would need a full rebuild. I don't mind a bit of surface rust, I'll be keeping it outside for at least a year so I expect it to get a rough during that time anyway, but ideally not something I need to sort out immediately! Quite a few years back (at least eight), I was chatting to Adrian Crawford, and he told me if I was ever in the market for another 964, to remove the offside front wheel and the wheel lining, check for rust and push hard against the bulkhead.
He had come across 964s that bad with rot, that you can almost push your hand through, and he'd seen quite a lot with rust in this area.
No idea why the offside, and no idea why the 964 would rot there, as though it can suffer the same with the older models with rust under the headlamps and in the B pillars, the earlier cars as far as I know havent really suffered rust/rot in the bulkhead.
Edited by Wozy68 on Thursday 8th March 14:51
Wozy68 said:
Just out of interest, have you tried a 993 C2 or C4? I appreciate you may prefer the look of the 964, but looking at 964 prices, the 993 seems a bit more value for money. A well looked after 993 is a beautiful drive.
I've not personally driven one, but I've been as a passenger a few times. They're really comfortable and the widebodies are beautiful, but they're a bit further along the refinement scale than I'd be happy with - felt very similar to the 996. If I could get away with it, I'd buy a 3.2, but it's just a little too high maintenance for daily commuting.Wozy68 said:
Yeah I hear this a lot about the 993.
The one thing to rememeber is you can make a 993 more an agressive/rawer car ..... RSR the exhausts, RS engine mounts, LWF, etc etc.
One of the biggest bug bears for me on my 964 was the NVH, normally it wasnt too much of an issue but at times (especially for a while I had to use it to commute in) it used get on my nerves, So though the 993 has more refinement, at least you can make it rawer if you prefer.
Just food for thought.
Lastly. A 993 C2 with massive history with 153K miles under her belt C2 manual Couple was for sale on 911UK last month for £32.5K. . I think it sold for £30K. Absolutly fab history and money spent. Bloody bargain IMHO.
I actually considered that one, it was lovely and pretty much what I'm after.. Just wasn't (and still not) sure about the 993. Maybe I'll keep my eyes open. I've seen a silver 993 c2 manual pop up for ~£35k which is well within my budget.. Just not a massive fan of travelling/wasting days/time for something I'm not really that interested in. I need to find someone willing to let me know their upgraded 993 really!The one thing to rememeber is you can make a 993 more an agressive/rawer car ..... RSR the exhausts, RS engine mounts, LWF, etc etc.
One of the biggest bug bears for me on my 964 was the NVH, normally it wasnt too much of an issue but at times (especially for a while I had to use it to commute in) it used get on my nerves, So though the 993 has more refinement, at least you can make it rawer if you prefer.
Just food for thought.
Lastly. A 993 C2 with massive history with 153K miles under her belt C2 manual Couple was for sale on 911UK last month for £32.5K. . I think it sold for £30K. Absolutly fab history and money spent. Bloody bargain IMHO.
Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 9th March 13:00
g7jhp said:
Don't discount a 3.2 Carrera perfectly usable as a daily driver. I've had two as dailies, my last for 7 years until 2010.
Shouldn't have sold it, but the 996 turbo does do daily duties well when required!
I don't have a garage so it would have to live outside, the ungalvanised metal will rust pretty quick from what I've read? Shouldn't have sold it, but the 996 turbo does do daily duties well when required!
Wozy68 said:
Well if your ever near WR11 or GL56 drop me a line and you can have a go in mine.
C2 Coupe
RS Steering Wheel
RS Quickshift
RSR Silencers conversation by Gert
C4 Mounts
Running Koni FSDs and M033 Springs.
I can only go on what I found after owning both.
I kept my 964 for less than 18 months and sold it. I’ve owned my 993 for over six years and absolutely love it, especially driving quick on unknown roads.
I really do think you need to try both. Just make sure the suspension is up to spec on each.
The one thing I always did love about the 964 was steering feel, not so much the 993. Then I replaced the heavier airbag wheel with an RS one, and hey ho the steering feel was night and day better.
Whichever you decide on, best of luck with it. You can’t beat the sound and character of an air cooled 911
I'm actually only about an hour from Evesham, so if your genuinely alright with it then I'd love to experience it once the weather gets a bit better!C2 Coupe
RS Steering Wheel
RS Quickshift
RSR Silencers conversation by Gert
C4 Mounts
Running Koni FSDs and M033 Springs.
I can only go on what I found after owning both.
I kept my 964 for less than 18 months and sold it. I’ve owned my 993 for over six years and absolutely love it, especially driving quick on unknown roads.
I really do think you need to try both. Just make sure the suspension is up to spec on each.
The one thing I always did love about the 964 was steering feel, not so much the 993. Then I replaced the heavier airbag wheel with an RS one, and hey ho the steering feel was night and day better.
Whichever you decide on, best of luck with it. You can’t beat the sound and character of an air cooled 911
g7jhp said:
You can always find an excuse, but if you want one you'll find a way. Great cars and only heavy at parking speeds.
Agreed, my other car is an old 70s datsun 240z so I don't really want to get something too close to that. Its great to drive around but not really suitable for driving around town or down to the shops. The idea of something that still feels old and analogue but comes with a few goodies like power steering does appeal.Agreed Kevin, I think i'll wait a little longer. I'm sure something will eventually pop up that'll be perfect, it's just trying not to get too quick handed and buying something else!
Steve Rance said:
I think if you want a 964 C2, maybe you should hang on for the right car. I have a beautiful 993 in my garage but the car I go to every time I want a hoon about is my 964. there is Something about it which I love. They are special things. If you really want a 964C2 id buy one. Anything else will feel great - until you see a 964C2 drive past. Personally, I prefer the LHD driving experience. Go with that and you have more buying options. The RHD market is more limited but if you prefer a RHD then go with it.
The Datsun is a LHD car which is great fun, but I think when using it daily, which includes having to stop off at a barrier for work twice a day, I'll need a RHD!Kevin, that's gorgeous. Colour me jealous.
Larry5.2 said:
I've just taken my 1993 C2 manual coupe to GT-one in Chertsey to sell. Recently re-built engine, bilstein suspension, sports seats and lightweight flywheel. Original cup1 wheels included. Extensive documented history. PM if you want more details...
Certainly a gorgeous car! Maybe out of my budget, but dropped you an email Glaston said:
If it helps, I spent 18 months finding my C2 back in 2001. I finally found an ex-Adrian Crawford car he imported from Germany (so LHD) in 1998. I still have it.
Take your time, don't settle, but make sure you get a PPI before you buy.
Regarding the C4 don't forget that although it has an identical engine to the C2 it still weighs 100kg more. That's like having a 16 stone passenger in your car with you.
If you are every down in the SP2 region I would be happy to give you a spin - it comes in at just under 300bhp.
Thank you very much, I'd love that if I got the chance! Take your time, don't settle, but make sure you get a PPI before you buy.
Regarding the C4 don't forget that although it has an identical engine to the C2 it still weighs 100kg more. That's like having a 16 stone passenger in your car with you.
If you are every down in the SP2 region I would be happy to give you a spin - it comes in at just under 300bhp.
A c4 would have to be very special to buy in order to choose one over a c2... Still a little sore for not pulling the trigger on the 200k mile fully restored one that sold a couple of months ago for low 30s... On hindsight that would have been a great purchase as it had a full engine rebuild and a 10k body restoration.. That's 2/3 of its value just in that work alone! Unfortunately it was the first one I saw so I waited too long
Gassing Station | Porsche Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff