Big brake kit for F430

[anonymous-user]

I track my 2005 F430 a fair bit and although I've upgraded fluids, lines and pads the steels still won't get me more than a few laps now without overheating. I'm loving the car on track but am now considering upgrading to bigger steels. I've ruled out CCMs on cost and wear considerations. Does anyone here have experience with either the Brembo or AP Racing kits and should I start with fronts only or do the rears as well?

[anonymous-user]

I initially switched to Pagid RS29 but the squealing on the street drove me nuts. I was then recommended EBC Yellowstuff which are are quiet (when properly seated with copper paste) and seemed fine on track - although read that as two wet track days at Silverstone. I then did Snetterton 300 last week and I just wasn't confident under braking after 5 laps or so. I was doing circa 2.10's around there (from video) so was pushing on a bit, but brakes became the limiting factor - well besides me of course. So my thinking is now larger steels. I had forgotten about the RS29s though - you think I should try them again - I don't use the 430 much on the road at all - or something else?

[anonymous-user]

griff7 said:

To be fair those pads are not that good if you are really pushing on.The 29 is more of an endurance pad so initial bite is not that good and the yellowstuff is a real budget pad.Try a set of Pagid RST1's if you can get them or ring them for some advice.If you do upgrade the whole kit i would ask which one gives you the most choice of pads.PFC also do some great pads and their discs are the best have used in terms of lasting and performance.

Thanks - that's exactly what I was looking for. I'll give them a ring and get some advice.

[anonymous-user]

Thanks. After more googling and a couple phone calls I have ordered a set of Pagid RST1 pads and will fit those as well flush brake fluid - using Castrol React SRF Racing Fluid. I'm going to run at Silverstone and see how that goes. Next step would be a Brembo BBK - specifically this one http://www.bigbrakes4u.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd... which looks to be a decent price..? (Anyone know of a cheaper source..?) I'm considering front only for cost and weight considerations, bad idea..?

I've ruled out CCMs. Firstly they cost a fortune, secondly while they are lighter than a BBK I don't think the reduction in unsprung weight counts for as much on the track compared to fast road use, thirdly everything I read says they won't do more than a dozen hard track days and I do that every year (well I try to) so that could get very expensive.

Thoughts? Experiences?

[anonymous-user]

Cheers, thanks for that - I'll give Dave a ring. I'm going to fit the Pagid RST1 pads front and rear this weekend and see how they do at Silverstone. If the rears don't get worked hard enough and glaze I'll switch to softer pads at the back. I've been told that the F430 could do with a bit more front bias on track so if I do go for the BBK I'm thinking to do just the fronts first and see how that feels.

[anonymous-user]

Thanks Paul. Supplier rang this evening and told me they were out of RST1 pads so I cancelled the order. I still have the set of RS29s so they will go back on for now after a light sanding and a good dollop of copper paste. Rotors will get a good clean as well. I think you are right regarding heat dissipation and I reckon larger rotors are really the answer be they steels or CCMs which as you say can be swapped out for steel rotors if/when needed. Steels on for track use, CCMs back in for tours. I love experimenting and luckily I have a lift at home to make it all easier.

For me tracking these cars is the best way to fully appreciate their performance capabilities although I also thoroughly enjoy weekend country jaunts at saner speeds. I don't think a Ferrari should be 'modded' but improving aspects like brakes and suspension is of interest and relatively easy and inexpensive. I've lowered my car to Scud geometry which helped eliminate understeer and replaced ball joints and track/tie rod ends with the Hills alternatives. I've found wheel bearings to be another 'consumable' if you track a fair bit but they are also easy to replace as needed. Other than that the car thrives on being driven as intended and apart from regular fluid changes there's not much else to worry about.

[anonymous-user]

Finally got round to this. Am going with a 380mm set on the front from BG Developments. They are AP Racing 6 pot calipers and rotors and BGD will manufacture custom hats to fit - I am sending them a hub and wheel for measurements. Works out almost half the cost of the Brembo kit. BTW once mine have been made the same design can be used for all F430 orders in future - i.e. no need to send stuff for measuring. I'm dealing with Alex - fantastic knowledge and BGD have been making racing brakes for over 30 years. (http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk) Leaving the back for now - all advice says not needed.

Taking the opportunity to do a thorough clean of the suspension and underbody. Anyone have a recommendation for protective spray/wax/oil once done?

[anonymous-user]

Decided to go with ACF-50 for corrosion protection on the suspension components. No wax/oily-ness etc and highly recommended. Removing the original brake lines in order to fit braided ones has been a real bugger. Not only were the nuts seized but Ferrari decided to mount the join directly behind the shock. After plenty of WD-40 and application of heat I still couldn't loosen them so the hard pipe was sacrificed and new ones have been ordered. Haven't done the rears yet but after googling have bought a can of PlusGas in the hope of being able to loosen the rears successfully. Also taking the opportunity to clean and re-lube the ball joints.

[anonymous-user]

OEM - £55 a ball, can't be used in the wet, and using any more than a couple meters will render the rest of the ball worthless.

[anonymous-user]

430 up in the air still while BGD manufacture the hats and brackets. A good opportunity to take a gander underneath and inspect and clean. Interesting, with the wheels off and both ends lifted there is very little weight on the front stands - almost balances around the rear lifting points. Also a good reason to make more use of the 612 - properly enjoying it this summer for once.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 20th June 10:44

[anonymous-user]

Thanks for the tip. I will do that.

[anonymous-user]

mwstewart said:

Cerberaherts said:

Forget the plusgas. Get yourself a spray bottle. Knock up a 50/50 mix of acetone and dextron 3 (ATF oil) and spray it over the seized bits. Then sit back and wait a few hours. I've shifted some very very corroded and seized bits on many cars over the years with this.....

That is a great tip. That F1 oil is the most viscous stuff I have ever come across.

Well still waiting for the BBK to arrive as the first set of hats weren't right and Dave has had to redesign them. Can I just say the 50/50 acetone/ATF mix is the dogs bks for loosening seized bits - has worked on any and everything I have tried it on. Thanks for that. So the 430 is still on the ramp and I am suffering withdrawal symptoms. Here's a pic of the new caliper and bracket - just squeezes in. Discs will be 380mm as opposed to the stock 350mm.

[anonymous-user]

So it's taken longer than expected for AP to release the Radi-Cal II calliper series and rather than go for the originals I decided to wait it out. The second generation are lighter, stiffer and cooling has been improved. They arrived today from BGDevelopments who put the kit together with custom hats and brackets etc. They look amazing and not much heavier than the OEMs. Need to find the time to get them onto the car and then will head out to Silverstone most likely to test them out. Rotors are 390x36mm as opposed to OEM 330x32mm so I'm expecting a huge improvement in heat dissipation, callipers are now 6 pot to the OEM 4 pot so again feel and bite should be greatly improved. We'll see. I'll clean up the OEM and store them.

BTW I had to send wheel and hub to BGDevelopments as it was the first 430 kit they had done but they now have all the measurements if anyone else wants a set.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 6th November 13:08

[anonymous-user]

Fitted and now need to bleed. The engineering is really sharp. Perfect tolerances and etched with my name is a nice touch. Only the fronts are needed, rears are well within performance requirements. As for fitting the 360 I can’t say. Would assume so but someone else would need to confirm. These are the very maximum size for 19 inch rims, even the wheel balancing weights needed moving to make space.

[anonymous-user]

[anonymous-user]

Wheels are back on - just Cannot tell you how impressed I am with the engineering by BG Developments. There is literally a millimetre between caliper and wheel. Next step - off to DK Engineering for annual service and MOT. BTW - DK use BG for all their custom brake work so were pleased when I said who was doing the work for me. They were also significantly cheaper than buying the full Brembo kit online.

[anonymous-user]

gcpeters said:

i like, a lot

can you share the costs?

GP

Sure. Just under £2,300 for the lot, i.e. both fronts. Speak to Dave at BGDevelopments.

[anonymous-user]

Yup - was really reasonable and that includes a set of pads too. To be fair Dave quoted 5 weeks for the job and the rest was waiting for the gen2 Radi-Cal calipers to be released by AP Racing. You won't need to send a wheel and hub for measuring either now that he has the specs for the F430. Had the car MOT'd this morning and took it out to bed in the rotors and pads. They feel great although all pretty low speed for now so it won't be until I get out on track that I will really be able to judge. They didn't fall off, rattle or squeak - so that was encouraging Pic below of the new versus old pads - quite an upgrade.

[anonymous-user]

Lol - looking at that pic you'd think so! Nope that is really OEM front pads vs AP Racing upgrade. Your move from CCM to steels makes absolute sense, if you want to track the car regularly on a realistic budget then steels are the way to go in my opinion.

[anonymous-user]

Been out for a few 'drives' around the country roads here and they feel immense. Far less pedal force required and as a result it is easier to maintain threshold braking. Far more confident with left foot braking too. They also look the nuts. Really pleased.