Does replacement engine affect 360 value much?
Discussion
Went to look at a 360 F1 today.
Never had one before but I've always really liked them.
This one has got higher miles on it (78k) and a couple years ago it had an engine fitted from a crashed 11k miles car (with all paperwork etc to support the engine purchase and fitment).
It's had other stuff such as later spec TCU and recently servicing, brakes, belts etc.
The car itself is cosmetically a little tatty inside and out, mostly due to the miles, has a few broken things inside, and will need a tidy up. This doesn't bother me as I am happy to do the work.
But I just worry about it being 'non matching numbers' in future.
But maybe this isn't an issue at all?
I've mostly had classic Porsches and people get really upset over non matching numbers on those...
Any thoughts?
Never had one before but I've always really liked them.
This one has got higher miles on it (78k) and a couple years ago it had an engine fitted from a crashed 11k miles car (with all paperwork etc to support the engine purchase and fitment).
It's had other stuff such as later spec TCU and recently servicing, brakes, belts etc.
The car itself is cosmetically a little tatty inside and out, mostly due to the miles, has a few broken things inside, and will need a tidy up. This doesn't bother me as I am happy to do the work.
But I just worry about it being 'non matching numbers' in future.
But maybe this isn't an issue at all?
I've mostly had classic Porsches and people get really upset over non matching numbers on those...
Any thoughts?
It's a private sale so no warranty.
The history is patchy because was used as a 'driving experience' car at Silverstone for years.
It has stamps in the book for he first 3 years of its life from Ferrari, and then had over 12 years of 'serviced every 6 months in-house' by the mechanics at the Driving Experience place.
It was then sold to a guy who has owned it privately for 3 years and fitted the replacement engine not long after he bought it as he said he just didn't trust the motor that was in it. Said it sounded a bit rough and was smokey.
He had then had the book stamped each year by independents for servicing.
The history is patchy because was used as a 'driving experience' car at Silverstone for years.
It has stamps in the book for he first 3 years of its life from Ferrari, and then had over 12 years of 'serviced every 6 months in-house' by the mechanics at the Driving Experience place.
It was then sold to a guy who has owned it privately for 3 years and fitted the replacement engine not long after he bought it as he said he just didn't trust the motor that was in it. Said it sounded a bit rough and was smokey.
He had then had the book stamped each year by independents for servicing.
RamboLambo said:
Run for the hills. Care regularly service in house and still needed engine replacing ? hmmmm.
I wonder what else will fall off it shortly
I'm not too worried about the engine or mechanicals.I wonder what else will fall off it shortly
It appears to have been serviced and looked after properly since the change of ownership and the engine being replaced.
It's had clutch, servicing, all brakes, few other bits and pieces in the last 3 years, and done only a couple of thousand miles in that time.
I'm just wondering if it's worth it at £20k less than every other RHD car I can find.
The fact it needs paint and tidying inside isn't too much of an issue as I can do it at my work.
hyphen said:
Have you researched the place that fitted the engine? Are we talking back street garage, not well known generic garage or a highly respected leading indie?
It was JMH Automotive.A look on their website suggests they only do Ferrari, Maserati and Porsche, and run various Ferrari race teams and provide the servicing for Ferrari GT race cars.
So it would seem it was done somewhere decent.
My business is car bodywork and I've had a really good look round the car, and it's straight as an arrow. All the panels look original.
I can see where it's had paint in the past on one of the doors, but that's about it.
I would paint the complete car anyway just to get rid of the stonechips that are present on nearly all panels, and to make it mint.
It will have had a hard life. It's done 60k miles purely on a racetrack...
But the fact that the engine and transmission has been replaced since then is probably a good thing, and it's had 3 years of being looked after since then and numerous other bits replaced.
It drives really well and sounds epic as it has some sort of race exhaust on it. Comes with standard exhaust as well.
I'm just not sure...
The price is so tempting.
I know it'll never be an £80k car due to the mileage etc, but it might be cheap enough for me to just drive and enjoy without being too precious about it.
I can see where it's had paint in the past on one of the doors, but that's about it.
I would paint the complete car anyway just to get rid of the stonechips that are present on nearly all panels, and to make it mint.
It will have had a hard life. It's done 60k miles purely on a racetrack...
But the fact that the engine and transmission has been replaced since then is probably a good thing, and it's had 3 years of being looked after since then and numerous other bits replaced.
It drives really well and sounds epic as it has some sort of race exhaust on it. Comes with standard exhaust as well.
I'm just not sure...
The price is so tempting.
I know it'll never be an £80k car due to the mileage etc, but it might be cheap enough for me to just drive and enjoy without being too precious about it.
355fiorano said:
I agree those cars had a hard life and many stories of crashes etc
Bottom line it seems to be one of the cheapest options of getting a 360 for you. What you probably need to be aware of is that this will likely be a very illiquid asset so if you are willing to write off most of the price plus fixing costs then you can have the 360 experience.
Personally I'd look for a very high mileage, maybe left hand drive with a good history if possible for a similar price as I think it may be easier to shift when you need to and most likely may be a better car.
I think all that is fair comment really.Bottom line it seems to be one of the cheapest options of getting a 360 for you. What you probably need to be aware of is that this will likely be a very illiquid asset so if you are willing to write off most of the price plus fixing costs then you can have the 360 experience.
Personally I'd look for a very high mileage, maybe left hand drive with a good history if possible for a similar price as I think it may be easier to shift when you need to and most likely may be a better car.
I've got numerous other cars such as Porsche 993's and other classics so I'm not adverse to putting money into things, but equally I only generally do it when I know I'm going to get a return or at least break even when I'm finished.
Generally I manage to do it with most things I've owned, as pretty much everything has risen in value.
I reckon by the time I put this 360 'right' it'll owe me £45k.
And surely at that it's still got to be worth £50k+ to someone.
I can't find another RHD example anywhere for less than £59k
Having weighed it all up, I think I've talked myself out of it.
Yes, it's a little cheaper than others, but I'm just worried it's spent a massive 60k miles hitting kerbs on a racetrack and now has a non-matching numbers engine.
I think I would rather pay that little bit more and get one with a better history behind it.
Edited to add: Thanks very much to all who commented in the thread with advice!
Yes, it's a little cheaper than others, but I'm just worried it's spent a massive 60k miles hitting kerbs on a racetrack and now has a non-matching numbers engine.
I think I would rather pay that little bit more and get one with a better history behind it.
Edited to add: Thanks very much to all who commented in the thread with advice!
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 4th March 21:22
slarti650 said:
I think I know which car this. My head got the better of me. For an extra 15k you can get a car that doesn't have this kind of history and wil be much easier to sell on later (that time often comes). It doesn't matter how much "fixing you do to it. The last guy put a new engine in it and it's not helping the sale :-) if you can afford to be 45k down then buy it. Otherwise save a bit more and get a car without the history.
It was offered to me at £40k, and even at that I just couldn't feel comfortable for some reason.It was just so rough inside. Holes in the leather where there had been bolts for a roll cage and suchlike.
To some people it would have been perfectly fine to own and drive like that, but it was just absolutely everywhere inside. Every bit of leather or plastic was either scratched, marked, worn out or broken. All the buttons and switches had the writing worn off.
Every panel was marked or stonechipped, there was a crack in the quarter panel, engine undertray missing, rear diffuser was cracked and the composite all flaking.
It was tatty inside the engine bay and even under the front bonnet it looked grubby and used.
The windscreen was cracked (£1100).
The engine light was on as it needed a new ECU because Silverstone had apparently tinkered with the one in the car, lowering the rev limit etc.
I've got that horrible sick feeling that I've 'missed out' on a bargain this morning, but maybe it's for the best.
The history was as expected for a track car. 3 decent dealer services at first then no stamps or anything for 14 years or so. Just a scribble in one box by a mechanic confirming it had been 'serviced every 6 months in-house'.
The engine swap was a real shame for me. In some ways it made sense as it made the car reliable and drivable for the owner, but it really knocked the value for me.
The total cost of buying and fitting a low miles engine was £11k for the owner. I wonder how much a rebuild of the original engine would have been?
yzr500 said:
my good 360 manual would stuggle to sell at £60k today .
What do you feel is happening with 360 prices at the moment?I was getting a little edgy that everything would be £80-100k soon for even the cheapest examples, but I've since seen a slew of cars at around £55-60k that have been for sale for months.
hyphen said:
p.s. in future can you add all the information in the first post!
I usually try to include as much info as I can when I post, however I was trying to be slightly coy over this one as I was still debating buying it.I didn't want to post all the details and link to the advert etc in case someone read this thread and promptly bought the vehicle whilst I was thinking about it.
WCZ said:
generally those experience days are absolutely s
te though, the 'instructors' are petrified of the drivers and won't let them push the car in any way.
Absolutely.te though, the 'instructors' are petrified of the drivers and won't let them push the car in any way.My business partner is lucky enough to be one of life's naturally very gifted drivers, and spends trackdays passing absolutely everything including 'racing drivers' testing their race prepared GT cars. Even when he's on the road he can take a RWD car he's never driven before and hold it in a massive powerslide round the business park and send it into roundabouts at speeds that you are absolutely convinced will end in a massive accident.
He went to the Silverstone driving experience about 6 months ago with his son and a couple of friends and ended up having a go in a couple of Ferrari's.
The session ended with him having a massive shouting argument with the Instructor and telling him "You know I can drive better than you, so stop being a fanny and let me drive the f
king thing properly. I didn't pay all this money to plod round a track at only 90mph and follow your bad lines through corners".Compare that with some of the manufacturer driving days we've been invited on where the instructors have said to him "it's pretty obvious you can peddle a car, so just go nuts" and he then proceeds to drift the latest Jaguar XF-RS round the track.
WCZ said:
hahaha that echos my brief experience with them too. I also got into an argument !
They absolutely hate it when they get someone in the car who can properly drive, it just makes them look silly, and they spend the entire time telling them to slow down to a speed which actually makes it harder for the fast driver to hit the right lines.A good day for them must be getting a load of people who are totally incompetent in a car and think that 70mph is 'absolutely flying'.
LIVENT said:
On the 360 you were looking at I would have negotiated hard. It's going to be a very hard car for the seller to get rid of
Evidently not. He had, and I'm not making this up, over 200 enquiries from people wanting to see it.
I was the first person he 'allowed' to come and see it as I was fairly local, and 5 minutes after I said I wasn't sure about it, he sold it to his neighbour for £40k cash.
The neighbour didn't even want it as a car, he just thought it was so stupidly cheap that he bought it just to stick in a barn behind his house as he thinks it'll be worth double in a few years. Apparently he's bought quite a few random cars like that and just put them in his barn as his pension fund.
rubystone said:
Was this car off the M40 and were the seats badly worn and it showing 7 shades of red on the panels? Was it also on Carandclassic for nigh on a year dropping in price from low £50s to £40?...if it is and he sold it for £40k then someone has paid £7k more than I could have bought it for...and in my mind that was still £8k more than I’d have paid for it....investment my arse...
No, that's sounds like a different car.This was was near Lancaster.
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