458 Speciale vs. 991.2 manual GT3 advice please

[RSVP911]

HI please don't let anyone on the Porsche forums know that I'm here ................................ thinking of dipping my toe into the dark site - please keep this between us.

Two questions if I may ...

1. Have had a strong offer on my manual 991.2 GT3 and the only thing I think I think it might be swapping for is a Speciale - however I need to decide quickly and wondered what peoples views were who might have had both - obvious challenge is manual vs auto. It's a weekend "toy" - I have had 991RS and preferred the GT3 as it's a manual - perhaps i've answered my own question.

2. Basically I was wondering if anyone could give me an idiots guide to buying one of these ;

What would a 5-7k car cost at trade / What mark up do dealers take - Trying to understand annual depreciation
Anything that's essential option wise
What's the deal on the 7 year service pack - what does that mean

Anyone bored of theirs ?

Cheers

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 23 June 22:28

[RSVP911]

LamboPH said:

I wouldn’t think there is any depreciation on a Speciale?

well you loose dealer margin day one - I have no idea how much this is (I realise it varies) but I'm guessing £k25 ?

[RSVP911]

Taffy66 said:

Best for you to PM your good friend AndrewD R as he currently owns both a Manual GT3 and 458 Speciale..I just have a humble 458 Italia and can tell you they are much more involving to drive at legal speeds compared to any Porsche..Reasons are much lower gearing, hyper reactive steering and throttle although these have been tempered on the Speciale..
There are two Rosso Corsa Speciales for sale at Dick Lovett Swindon which seem quite good value at £254K and £267K..Personally i wouldn't pay more for one as a lot are currently over priced IMO..
Ferrari main dealers aim to keep cars in stock much longer than Porsche where two years is acceptable..This is the reason they operate a very wide trade to sell spread compared to Porsche..
I have been in touch with two Ferrari dealers in the last fortnight with an interest in either upgrading to an 812 or Speciale but love my 458 way too much..I don't think i'd be as happy driving a £250K+ Ferrari around compared to my Italia but this is personal.
Another thing Ferraris feel much more special in a mystical way even compared to my RS..

Oh bugger - didn't take long for me to get caught on here ! Taffy, just remind me was your GT3 manual or PDK ? Very surprising to hear what you ay about them being more engaging - struggling to see how any auto can be more fun than a manual; Porka or Ferrari - I'll give Andrew a DM.

If you were guessing what do you think the dealer spread on one of these is ? PM me if you prefer. Yep well chap and remember Mum's the word

[RSVP911]

Taffy66 said:

RSVP911 said:

Oh bugger - didn't take long for me to get caught on here ! Taffy, just remind me was your GT3 manual or PDK ? Very surprising to hear what you ay about them being more engaging - struggling to see how any auto can be more fun than a manual; Porka or Ferrari - I'll give Andrew a DM.

If you were guessing what do you think the dealer spread on one of these is ? PM me if you prefer. Yep well chap and remember Mum's the word

Mine was a PDK so not really helpful in your situation..However i find my new RS WP much more involving than the GT3 and as both PDK not down to the box..Spread in Ferrari dealers depend on how long they estimate they'll have the car is stock..They are more than happy to keep some cars in stock for two years in some cases..They are currently desperate for 458s but not so much 488s which would suggest a bigger spread on the latter..At a guess i'd say that 20% spread would be pretty typical unless they had a genuine buyer already lined up..

Jesus - for a £k50 loss straight out the showroom on a £k250 Speciale then ? That’s massive are you sure ?

[RSVP911]

Slippydiff said:

Disgraceful behaviour Lord Porsche of Stuttgart.

Turncoat.

Bloody hell , H can’t believe you of all people have caught me on here

[RSVP911]

Lots of helpful comments, thanks

A few thoughts :

Firstly I couldn’t care less about brand cache, actually to me, this part of ownership would be a turn off & probably explains why I’ve not had one before - I’d be very embarrassed about attention it would bring; I’d tend to use it for very early morning blasts and then tuck it up again out of sight. I’m only interested in the actual product itself and ownership proposition from a technical & driver interaction perspective.

Couple of other thoughts ; as the dealer spread is huge, you’d think there would be a good market owner to owner (maybe not, due to finance requirements from some buyers) - as I say if anyone doesn’t want theirs anymore please pm me.

Also there must be really good trusted Indy’s that broker these cars more competitively ? If so, please can someone let me know who the good guys are (I know who I would and wouldn’t buy a second hand Porsche from for example)

Taffy, eally interesting to hear your thoughts on tactility and dynamics - my main worry is moving from manual to PDK (not sure what Ferrari call this) so the fact that you find your 458 really engaging is really good to hear

All thoughts welcome, as I’m a Ferrari nube

[RSVP911]

DT398 said:

It’s a lot of money to be tied up for early morning drives avoiding attention imho, but we are not all the same and it’s pretty much guaranteed you would have a silly grin on your face as you tucked it back in the garage!

Buy one in a dark colour and it’s a lot less attention grabbing than, say, a 991.2RS with its frankly preposterous rear wing (sorry Taffy!)

There are one or two decent independents and DK Engineering spring to mind and they have one at the moment for reasonable money but a 2 year main dealer warranty is probably worth having on these cars. You probably wouldn’t go wrong with the likes of Tom Hartley or Romans either but again the warranty thing is out there. Bramley is another one but they seem to be similar pricing to main dealers. If it’s SOR you may be able to inherit the existing warranty, not sure.

It’s horses for courses in the end and I’ve been through a similar thought process but not done anything about it yet. If you can avoid agonising over whether it’s “worth it” or not, there’s no doubt it would be an epic car to own. I know a few that have them and they are all smitten.

Cheers , good point re warranty / dealers cheers

[RSVP911]

browngt3 said:

Ha ha, I'm going to add to the growing list of Porsche owners lurking here!

I have recently added a classic 308GTB QV to my little collection of Porsches. Whilst we can't compare it to the 991.2GT3 in any way it does come out very well indeed compared to its contemporary - the Carrera 3.2. It has a delicacy of touch, an elegance and a charm that the old 911 simply doesn't have. If this is the case when comparing a 458 to a 991.2 GT3 then call me converted!

I'm also reevaluating the GT3. Have you considered a manual F430? Harry Metcalfe, being his usual enthusiastic self, in his recent video review, reckons it a better proposition than the Scuderia. It's also a similar performance to the GT3, similar price point and more than fast enough for our roads. He makes a compelling case. However, if you want to track it then I guess that changes things. In my opinion a GT3 is a better bet for this as to track a Speciale must be outrageously expensive not to mention the psychological risk of tracking a car literally twice as valuable.

Sounds lovely - rightly or wrongly, I’m Speciale or nothing if it’s a Ferrari

[RSVP911]

isaldiri said:

RSVP - STOP! the car you really want is the big boxster. buying a speciale (great car as it is and it really is good) is just going to distract you from the one you really really want

You’re obviously right, it I though this might be a credible second place for less than 1/2 the money. Also struggling to find one - no hurry though - I can wait - thought the 458 Spec might be a nice stop gap - have a strong buyer form my GT3 if I wanted to sell, but need to decide very soon- I think the 458 is a fall back position if I sell the GT3 & can’t get a good CGT for my budget - always fancied one

[RSVP911]

Hi there - can anyone tell me roughly how much a decent spec car was new ? Cheers

[RSVP911]

isaldiri said:

About £235-240k iirc. Depending on how much cf one specced or went overboard with fancy paint it could be a fair bit more. Or that figure was what I had my order specced up to before slightly stupidly cancelling in late 2014..

Oops - funny that, now you come to mention it, I was offered a brand new car that was already made for I think £230 back in the day - and I passed as it felt like crazy money at the time - oops indeed

[RSVP911]

hornbaek said:

I am also a Porsche owner considering dipping my toe into the Ferrari Speciale fold. Drove my 997 GT3 RS 4.0 back to back with a friends Ferrari Speziale Apperta. Two completly different cars and my conclusion was, that it's not the one against the other but you probably you "need" both. ! I would't swap GT3 RS 4.0 for a Speziale though. I think these Ferrari's still have a way to go (down) price wise. As said above, dealers seem to hang on to them faily long so the list prices do not reflect the current state of the market. Ask and bid are far apart and there are relatively many of them around so the bubble will burst eventually. 458 Speziale Aperta - the one to have !

Interesting - do you (or anyone else) know how many Speciale (non Alperta’s) we’re made ? Even better if someone knows LHD / RHD split

Thanks,

Richard

[RSVP911]

forcedinduction7 said:

Looks to be 2-2.5k Speciale hardtops. Some UK info...

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/uk-speci...

Not sure I can make head ir tail of this - manybe I’m being think ?

thanks though

[RSVP911]

DT398 said:

I haven’t had a manual 991.2gt3 but I’ve had the Gen1 plus both variants of the 991RS and I now have a 458 spider. The Ferrari is way more special than any of them despite not being as sharp a drive imho.

The 991 GT cars are total bargains for what they do but they don’t have the Ferrari secret sauce imho.

The Speciale is in a different league to the GT3 (and is obviously priced accordingly) but as Taffy says, it’s probably a car you want to buy to keep as dealer margins will be large and we might also be in for a bit of a correction, so selling it after a year or two might be painful.

As an alternative, you could more or less straight swap your 991gt3 for a 458 Italia which will get you 90% of the experience. I know everyone raves about the 991 Gen2 engine but that Ferrari V8 at full chat is a thing of beauty.

I’d have an Italia over a 991gt3/RS of any persuasion all day long. 992 will be out soon, etc etc but the 458 will never be replaced or repeated by Ferrari if you see what I mean. All just imho of course!

Thanks - I missed this somehow

[RSVP911]

Slippydiff said:

Evening Lord R, my overwhelming thought is this :
The application of additional vinyl graffiti graphics to the flanks of a vehicle built by Italy’s most revered motor manufacturer, will most likely result in more than the odd eyebrow being raised among the cognoscenti.
I know this is an emotive subject for you, and think it’s something you need to give due consideration before proceeding with the purchase of said vehicle ...

H you’re so right, a part of me would be mortified, but this emotion would be in direct conflict with the other part of me that thinks they’re very sexy - I’m a complicated chap - so as long as I drive it very early in the morning I’d get away with it

[RSVP911]

garystoybox said:

WCZ said:

£250k is value for what is one of the best cars of all time imo, I personally think they'll be worth more in 5 years

I agree wonderful car, but far too many built and so mileage sensitive, even within the Ferrari world. If a keeper for life then none of this matters but looking at the used market, nobody drives their cars, which is a shame.

Interesting - do you know how many UK RHD cars there were ? Cheers

[RSVP911]

Taffy66 said:

RSVP911 said:

Interesting - do you know how many UK RHD cars there were ? Cheers

Excluding the Apertas, 326 new Speciale coupes were registered in the UK according to 'How many left'...Pretty much exactly half the number of 991.2GT3s but much more than 981 Spyders.
Alternatively the same number as 991.1GT3 RSs or 991.1GT3s to give you some context..

That’s really helpful thanks

[RSVP911]

MDL111 said:

I suspect you will miss the manual - drove the Scuderia for the first time this year today and while the F1 is imo more fun than a DCT, it is still not patch on a manual. I think I might sell the road Ferraris and buy an older Porsche instead (I can’t afford a CGT, otherwise that would be my choice without a second thought)

Interesting post - may be selling my Fly yellow, completely original, 964 RS - let me know if if interested and I’ll send you some deets :

[RSVP911]

MDL111 said:

RSVP911 said:

MDL111 said:

I suspect you will miss the manual - drove the Scuderia for the first time this year today and while the F1 is imo more fun than a DCT, it is still not patch on a manual. I think I might sell the road Ferraris and buy an older Porsche instead (I can’t afford a CGT, otherwise that would be my choice without a second thought)

Interesting post - may be selling my Fly yellow, completely original, 964 RS - let me know if if interested and I’ll send you some deets

That’s lovely but out of range for the moment.

Ah thanks, it’s a peach and I’m very unhappy about selling it, but I’m on the path to another manual NA Porsche and have to trim the flock unfortunately

[RSVP911]

Slippydiff said:

RSVP911 said:

Ah thanks, it’s a peach and I’m very unhappy about selling it, but I’m on the path to another manual NA Porsche and have to trim the flock unfortunately

A great shame, in the goodness of time I suspect you’ll come to regret it R.

H, you are a wise old sage and the cleverest man on PH - if I can, I’ll try and keep and then decide later, but I may not have that luxury