458/488 Potential Purchase Advice
Discussion
Hi all, just looking for some advice really, hopefully some of you guys here can offer some insights.
Long story short, I had a quiet day at work the other week in-between Christmas and New Years, and decided to pass the time by browsing Autotrader/Piston heads (dangerous). I found myself looking at both 458s & 488s and now I really have the itch for one.
I currently own a Porsche 718 GT4, and have owned a few other fancy cars in the past, but have never owned a Ferrari (or anything Italian as a matter of fact!) and want to scratch the Itch. Porsche is my favourite car brand so I have always gone for those but fancy a bit of a change.
I personally prefer the looks of the 488, however I am also drawn to the older 458, due to it being a N/A V8 in comparison to the TT V8 in the 488. I also feel as though being the last N/A V8, the 458 would be a "safer" bet to put my money, as after all, I am not a billionaire and need to be careful with what I do with my money! (I realise that's slightly ironic as I am literally typing a post about potentially buying a Ferrari in the middle of an economic downturn!)
When looking to purchase, is there anything that I should be looking at that in particular on these cars? i.e recalls etc. Also, any "Must have" options? - I've never owned a car of this level before so not really sure what would be needed to make the car more desirable when the time to sell comes. For example, if I don't get a car with the daytona buckets or carbon interior, will it be harder to move on? Also, if anyone is able to provide some sort of insight to general servicing costs that would be great!
I will link 2 adverts below of ones that I found on Autotrader, I would be looking at around the £150k mark. Also, is anyone able to provide any sort of insight into financing Ferraris in general? - All broker websites that I have looked at (e.g Magnitude Finance, Charles & Dean, JBR Capital) state that you need to get in contact for figures on Ferrari's and nothing else? I'll be the first to admit that I'm a bit antisocial, so like doing figure research on the online calculators! Do I have to get in contact because of stronger residuals so higher ballons etc?
I'm not massively fussed on the exact spec of the car, it just so happens that both of the adverts are white spyders! I am open to coupes as well, just thought that if I could, why not get the hard top spyder as it may appeal to more people when time comes to sell.
The only thing that I can see myself having an issue with is that I like to do some track driving, hence always leaning towards Porsche GT products, I don't feel as though the "standard" 458/488 would have the same sort of potential on track (especially the convertibles) - So may have to get something else dedicated to trackwork, although I am open to any experiences that any of you may have have on track in your cars!
At the end of the day, It all boils down to if I can make the figures work, and If I can, then great! If I can't make it work, then I know that I have my next goal to aim towards...
If anyone is able to provide some insight to the points raised above it would be helpful, and also if you was in my position, which would you rather go for? 458 or 488?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208168...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209179...
Long story short, I had a quiet day at work the other week in-between Christmas and New Years, and decided to pass the time by browsing Autotrader/Piston heads (dangerous). I found myself looking at both 458s & 488s and now I really have the itch for one.
I currently own a Porsche 718 GT4, and have owned a few other fancy cars in the past, but have never owned a Ferrari (or anything Italian as a matter of fact!) and want to scratch the Itch. Porsche is my favourite car brand so I have always gone for those but fancy a bit of a change.
I personally prefer the looks of the 488, however I am also drawn to the older 458, due to it being a N/A V8 in comparison to the TT V8 in the 488. I also feel as though being the last N/A V8, the 458 would be a "safer" bet to put my money, as after all, I am not a billionaire and need to be careful with what I do with my money! (I realise that's slightly ironic as I am literally typing a post about potentially buying a Ferrari in the middle of an economic downturn!)
When looking to purchase, is there anything that I should be looking at that in particular on these cars? i.e recalls etc. Also, any "Must have" options? - I've never owned a car of this level before so not really sure what would be needed to make the car more desirable when the time to sell comes. For example, if I don't get a car with the daytona buckets or carbon interior, will it be harder to move on? Also, if anyone is able to provide some sort of insight to general servicing costs that would be great!
I will link 2 adverts below of ones that I found on Autotrader, I would be looking at around the £150k mark. Also, is anyone able to provide any sort of insight into financing Ferraris in general? - All broker websites that I have looked at (e.g Magnitude Finance, Charles & Dean, JBR Capital) state that you need to get in contact for figures on Ferrari's and nothing else? I'll be the first to admit that I'm a bit antisocial, so like doing figure research on the online calculators! Do I have to get in contact because of stronger residuals so higher ballons etc?
I'm not massively fussed on the exact spec of the car, it just so happens that both of the adverts are white spyders! I am open to coupes as well, just thought that if I could, why not get the hard top spyder as it may appeal to more people when time comes to sell.
The only thing that I can see myself having an issue with is that I like to do some track driving, hence always leaning towards Porsche GT products, I don't feel as though the "standard" 458/488 would have the same sort of potential on track (especially the convertibles) - So may have to get something else dedicated to trackwork, although I am open to any experiences that any of you may have have on track in your cars!
At the end of the day, It all boils down to if I can make the figures work, and If I can, then great! If I can't make it work, then I know that I have my next goal to aim towards...
If anyone is able to provide some insight to the points raised above it would be helpful, and also if you was in my position, which would you rather go for? 458 or 488?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208168...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209179...
Thanks for the advice guys, will defo have to experience both before making a decision. I remember going out in a 458 a fair few years ago when they were the shiny and new, but only from the passenger seat, not driving unfortunately. Thanks for bringing up the brakes on the 458, I've got the latest PCCBs on my GT4 so may take a while to get used to the older style ceramics!
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there
I drove both, went with a 458.
Engine: 458 just feels so special, you could sit in it blind folded and turn the key and instantly know its Ferrari. Amazing strong power band pulling hard from 2000rpm all the way to 9000rpm. It feels fast, helped by very short gearing meaning it gives me the thrills I want without going stupidly fast.
Brakes: 458 weak point, not bad once hot but otherwise not great, 488 has better brakes!
Residuals: 488s are dropping below 458's of similar age and miles now, this could make the 488 the better buy unless they keep dropping. The nicer 458's are strong money now, could keep going up or come down. If Speciale does the F40 thing, as in 1M plus cost in a few years, then 458 values will be strong whereas 488 be forgotton.
Handling: 488 is grippier and more planted but I found the 458 chassis more loose and as such more fun, still very capable but never need to push it so hard.
For me it was easy 458 every time, otherwise in Ferrari its look at F12/812 or a 296 or maybe even older like a 430.
If you consider the 488 then maybe also look at the Mclaren 600 LT Spider, its just way better than the Ferrari, sounds better, more direct handling, far superior steering and top exit exhaust.
I am lucky as I own a 458 coupe and a 600 LT Spider. I'd not take a 488 over either.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown, its much appreciated! I drove both, went with a 458.
Engine: 458 just feels so special, you could sit in it blind folded and turn the key and instantly know its Ferrari. Amazing strong power band pulling hard from 2000rpm all the way to 9000rpm. It feels fast, helped by very short gearing meaning it gives me the thrills I want without going stupidly fast.
Brakes: 458 weak point, not bad once hot but otherwise not great, 488 has better brakes!
Residuals: 488s are dropping below 458's of similar age and miles now, this could make the 488 the better buy unless they keep dropping. The nicer 458's are strong money now, could keep going up or come down. If Speciale does the F40 thing, as in 1M plus cost in a few years, then 458 values will be strong whereas 488 be forgotton.
Handling: 488 is grippier and more planted but I found the 458 chassis more loose and as such more fun, still very capable but never need to push it so hard.
For me it was easy 458 every time, otherwise in Ferrari its look at F12/812 or a 296 or maybe even older like a 430.
If you consider the 488 then maybe also look at the Mclaren 600 LT Spider, its just way better than the Ferrari, sounds better, more direct handling, far superior steering and top exit exhaust.
I am lucky as I own a 458 coupe and a 600 LT Spider. I'd not take a 488 over either.
Interesting that you bring up the 600LT, I was taking a look at them but given the stories that you hear about them from a reliability stand point and the history of McLarens and depreciation, I was looking at staying away from them to be honest, but never say never!
F12 is an interesting one as well, as I love them but feel as though they would be a nightmare if they went wrong in comparison to a 458/488. I feel as though it was also be too much of a stretch for my budget to be honest to get a decent one.
296/812 would be a dream!
av185 said:
Good advice to drive both Fs before you decide.
Personally I prefer the na 458 but both are great cars although reckon on the 458 being the better ££ residually (last of line na) but both will be strong.
White not the best colour for them and Spyder more scuttle shake than Italia which puts many driver orientated buyers off despite droptop advantages in other areas mainly summer weather.
Neither Fs essentially are suitable track cars (unlike the 718 GT4) unless you want to replace very expensive consumables. Speciale and Pista obvs more driver focused but different ballpark price wise esp Speciale now creeping up ££ and quite expensive for an older car.
Whilst the 458 has a superb engine with 9k rev limit same as the GT3, neither this or the 488 being autos will offer the driver focus of the 8k rev limit 718 GT4 particularly if yours is a 'manuel' which has one of Porsches best gearboxes (along with the 991.2 GT3) despite relatively highish gearing although this is rather overblown and more of a concern on the older 981 GT4 which has an inferior non GT Porsche engine with somewhat of a torque hole.
The 458 F1 gearbox is great but not quite in the same ballpark as the PDK S GT3 and this was confirmed by Steve Sutcliffe during his test of the Speciale v 991.1 GT3 in 2014.
As a rapid road car imo the 718 GT4 is hard to beat especially at the price and the Fs do not really offer any more pace than the smaller GT4 for real world road driving on most typical B roads being somewhat restricted by their girth.
458s as you know have seen huge price appreciation particularly over this last 18 months along with many other desirable cars including to a lesser extent the 488 and proper spec cars sell very quickly at very strong money. Whether you feel now is the best time to throw £150k+ at a c9 year old car is for you to decide but chances are they will be even more expensive as we near Spring along with most desirable and seasonal sports cars.
Good luck they are both great cars.
Thanks for the comments AV, I do a fair bit lurking in the Porsche forums, and think I've seen your username over there before?!Personally I prefer the na 458 but both are great cars although reckon on the 458 being the better ££ residually (last of line na) but both will be strong.
White not the best colour for them and Spyder more scuttle shake than Italia which puts many driver orientated buyers off despite droptop advantages in other areas mainly summer weather.
Neither Fs essentially are suitable track cars (unlike the 718 GT4) unless you want to replace very expensive consumables. Speciale and Pista obvs more driver focused but different ballpark price wise esp Speciale now creeping up ££ and quite expensive for an older car.
Whilst the 458 has a superb engine with 9k rev limit same as the GT3, neither this or the 488 being autos will offer the driver focus of the 8k rev limit 718 GT4 particularly if yours is a 'manuel' which has one of Porsches best gearboxes (along with the 991.2 GT3) despite relatively highish gearing although this is rather overblown and more of a concern on the older 981 GT4 which has an inferior non GT Porsche engine with somewhat of a torque hole.
The 458 F1 gearbox is great but not quite in the same ballpark as the PDK S GT3 and this was confirmed by Steve Sutcliffe during his test of the Speciale v 991.1 GT3 in 2014.
As a rapid road car imo the 718 GT4 is hard to beat especially at the price and the Fs do not really offer any more pace than the smaller GT4 for real world road driving on most typical B roads being somewhat restricted by their girth.
458s as you know have seen huge price appreciation particularly over this last 18 months along with many other desirable cars including to a lesser extent the 488 and proper spec cars sell very quickly at very strong money. Whether you feel now is the best time to throw £150k+ at a c9 year old car is for you to decide but chances are they will be even more expensive as we near Spring along with most desirable and seasonal sports cars.
Good luck they are both great cars.
My GT4 is a manual, but to be honest I'm not massively fussed about the transmission. Don't get me wrong, its great when you're in the mood, but sometimes I just want to sit back and chill, which I find you cant really do in any manual car. If the PDK was available at the time I placed my order, I may have actually gone for that. This may just be a by-product of my being from the "PlayStation generation" and some people reading this may think it is sacrilege lol.
Also with the F's, I feel as though I could use them in a more "relaxed" manner, cruising about with the roof down if it was a spyder
, I don't feel like you can do this in any of the Porsches. There's nothing wrong with my GT4 and I absolutely love it, however I feel like you always need to be going at minimum 8/10ths to experience it properly, which isn't really available to do on the road. Supposedly I've read that you can use lot of the 458 on the road, although I am yet to experience for myselfPeople say that even just driving a Ferrari at 30 mph is an experience, which unfortunately I don't really get with Porsches as I feel that they are too clinical (not necessarily a bad thing)
My particular GT4 is a lovely car, and absolutely loaded with options, but I do fancy having a little taste of the dark side with something Italian!
av185 said:
And why not!
Let us know how you get on.
Your GT4 looks great they are superb value for money is that Carrara white metallic or Crayon? Difficult to tell with the light.
MisterBigglesworth said:
For resale I would say a 458 Spider in rosso Corsa with carbon seats, carbon driving zone / dash inserts is the strongest spec but you'll pay a premium on the way in as well.
Whilst you can drive it in full auto roof down and pootle don't underestimate the cars willingness to encourage you to be an utter hooligan, it can turn into a exercise in restraint to not get banged up.
I think you gain more than you lose with the spider, its such a riot to drive roof down whatever stiffness you lose you wont notice.
I would buy from a horse peddler, as much for the Ferrari social benefits as anything - I already got a VIP hospitality visit to Salon Prive and the 296 GTS launch and Ferrari just sent me a lovely hard backed 2022 year review book. Factoring in the 2 year warranty, level of prep they are worth the premium and give you a lot more of a special buying experience than at a specialist. I'd recommend Harry Bowman at Dick Lovett, fantastic to deal with.
Financing I'd recommend Charles & Dean..you can get a quote off JBRs online calculator but an informal chat with a broker is well worth it.
To give you some numbers
My 458 deal when rates were at 4.9 percent
145k purchase price
50k deposit
95k balloon at 48 months
497 month interest only.
Was regulated so only cost me 58 days interest and 897 penalty to settle early.
Rates have gone up to around 8 percent so same deal would be about 800 a month now. If you put a big deposit in you'll pay and lose less than a new M3.
My old car is still for sale at DL - its the grigio ferro tailor made car.
I swapped to a F12 last summer but I miss my spider so much ill be buying a second when funds permit.
Be warned if you get a red one, expect to draw attention which is thankfully majority positive wherever you go in it - having experienced a red one vs grigio the grey car was a bit more under the radar but the red one caused mayhem.
The 458's charm is it's a bit ragged round the edges in a good way, it's not as surgical as a Porsche GT but has the character of an excited small dog that wants to play all the time. Its very hard not to find it endearing and it brings a genuine sense of joy that very few cars possess no matter their technical prowess.
Steering is something you have to get used to, sneeze and you'll change lanes, but once you are on it then it behaves like a hyperactive go kart.
Servicing was 900 normal and 1200 with aux belts.
Batteries tend to be very weak and drain in a matter of days so you absolutely need to keep it on a trickle charger all the time.
Insurance you want to go with Locktons on the Ferrari owners policy or First point. Under no circumstances try and cheap it on a meerkat policy. You want agreed values choice of repairer etc.
Only downside if you want to preserve value is mileage limitations. There are a number of value points at under 10kx over 20k and over 30k so if you want to put more than 1000 miles a year on it you are better off in a 25k mile car with the garage queen premium already removed.
Less of an issue on the 488 as it's not got the last NA premium.
This is my old car. God I miss it.
Thank you for such a detailed write-up on the 458, also make interesting food for though with your comments on the F12 a bit further down the post. I would like to use the car, so looking at "higher milage" examples to be honest, I think a 15-20k mile car would suit my needs most. Im going to post below some finance figures to compare your deal to what it would be now if you was to buy one now!Whilst you can drive it in full auto roof down and pootle don't underestimate the cars willingness to encourage you to be an utter hooligan, it can turn into a exercise in restraint to not get banged up.
I think you gain more than you lose with the spider, its such a riot to drive roof down whatever stiffness you lose you wont notice.
I would buy from a horse peddler, as much for the Ferrari social benefits as anything - I already got a VIP hospitality visit to Salon Prive and the 296 GTS launch and Ferrari just sent me a lovely hard backed 2022 year review book. Factoring in the 2 year warranty, level of prep they are worth the premium and give you a lot more of a special buying experience than at a specialist. I'd recommend Harry Bowman at Dick Lovett, fantastic to deal with.
Financing I'd recommend Charles & Dean..you can get a quote off JBRs online calculator but an informal chat with a broker is well worth it.
To give you some numbers
My 458 deal when rates were at 4.9 percent
145k purchase price
50k deposit
95k balloon at 48 months
497 month interest only.
Was regulated so only cost me 58 days interest and 897 penalty to settle early.
Rates have gone up to around 8 percent so same deal would be about 800 a month now. If you put a big deposit in you'll pay and lose less than a new M3.
My old car is still for sale at DL - its the grigio ferro tailor made car.
I swapped to a F12 last summer but I miss my spider so much ill be buying a second when funds permit.
Be warned if you get a red one, expect to draw attention which is thankfully majority positive wherever you go in it - having experienced a red one vs grigio the grey car was a bit more under the radar but the red one caused mayhem.
The 458's charm is it's a bit ragged round the edges in a good way, it's not as surgical as a Porsche GT but has the character of an excited small dog that wants to play all the time. Its very hard not to find it endearing and it brings a genuine sense of joy that very few cars possess no matter their technical prowess.
Steering is something you have to get used to, sneeze and you'll change lanes, but once you are on it then it behaves like a hyperactive go kart.
Servicing was 900 normal and 1200 with aux belts.
Batteries tend to be very weak and drain in a matter of days so you absolutely need to keep it on a trickle charger all the time.
Insurance you want to go with Locktons on the Ferrari owners policy or First point. Under no circumstances try and cheap it on a meerkat policy. You want agreed values choice of repairer etc.
Only downside if you want to preserve value is mileage limitations. There are a number of value points at under 10kx over 20k and over 30k so if you want to put more than 1000 miles a year on it you are better off in a 25k mile car with the garage queen premium already removed.
Less of an issue on the 488 as it's not got the last NA premium.
This is my old car. God I miss it.
Thank you to everyone that has posted their views above, I have read every single one of them!
Just incase anyone was wondering, I got in touch with Charles and Dean and they provided me a representative example for both a 458 and 488. Im going to post them here so that if anyone on here is also looking, that can get an example of what they cost.
Just for reference, these cars are both advertised at circa £150k. I asked them to also put in the minimum deposit possible, so anymore money you had for a greater deposit would bring monthlies down(the minimum deposit for a 488 was higher than a 458, so both examples done with the 488 minimum deposit value). Also, bare in mind that the cost of borrowing at the moment is very high in comparison to the past couple of years, so if you already have one of these cars it could be a good indicator of how much it would cost now if you didn't buy it previously at the cheaper rates!
Ferrari 458 Spider 2012 20k Miles
-HP + Balloon finance package (regulated)
-Advertised price: £144,490.00
-Deposit: £23,500.00
-Balance to finance: £120,990.00
-Interest charges: £50,511.00
-Acceptance fee: £150.00
-Option to Purchase: £10.00
-Balance payable: £171,661.60
-48no. Payments @ £1,470.45 per month
-Balloon at end of agreement: £100,770.00
-Annual Milage: 5000
-Total Amount Payable: £195,001.60
-APR: 11.90% (apparently due to age of car a 1% apr increase is applied)
Ferrari 488 Coupe 2017 20k Miles
-HP + Balloon finance package (regulated)
-Advertised price: £154,975.00
-Deposit: £23,500.00
-Balance to finance: £131,475.00
-Interest charges: £50,404.44
-Acceptance fee: £150.00
-Option to Purchase: £10.00
-Balance payable: £182,039.44
-48no. Payments @ £1,525.78 per month
-Balloon at end of agreement: £108,492.00
-Annual Milage: 5000
-Total Amount Payable: £205,379.44
-APR: 10.90%
Just incase anyone was wondering, I got in touch with Charles and Dean and they provided me a representative example for both a 458 and 488. Im going to post them here so that if anyone on here is also looking, that can get an example of what they cost.
Just for reference, these cars are both advertised at circa £150k. I asked them to also put in the minimum deposit possible, so anymore money you had for a greater deposit would bring monthlies down(the minimum deposit for a 488 was higher than a 458, so both examples done with the 488 minimum deposit value). Also, bare in mind that the cost of borrowing at the moment is very high in comparison to the past couple of years, so if you already have one of these cars it could be a good indicator of how much it would cost now if you didn't buy it previously at the cheaper rates!
Ferrari 458 Spider 2012 20k Miles
-HP + Balloon finance package (regulated)
-Advertised price: £144,490.00
-Deposit: £23,500.00
-Balance to finance: £120,990.00
-Interest charges: £50,511.00
-Acceptance fee: £150.00
-Option to Purchase: £10.00
-Balance payable: £171,661.60
-48no. Payments @ £1,470.45 per month
-Balloon at end of agreement: £100,770.00
-Annual Milage: 5000
-Total Amount Payable: £195,001.60
-APR: 11.90% (apparently due to age of car a 1% apr increase is applied)
Ferrari 488 Coupe 2017 20k Miles
-HP + Balloon finance package (regulated)
-Advertised price: £154,975.00
-Deposit: £23,500.00
-Balance to finance: £131,475.00
-Interest charges: £50,404.44
-Acceptance fee: £150.00
-Option to Purchase: £10.00
-Balance payable: £182,039.44
-48no. Payments @ £1,525.78 per month
-Balloon at end of agreement: £108,492.00
-Annual Milage: 5000
-Total Amount Payable: £205,379.44
-APR: 10.90%
These quotes have made my GT4 look even more of a bargain taking things into perspective (think my main dealer finance with VW finance is 5.9 % on a brand new car, cant quite remember exact rate though to be honest. You could also buy a very nice second car cash as a run around in interest savings!)
Different league of car I understand, but the change doesn't look like its worth it at the moment. I personally like to finance as wouldn't like to have x amount of cash tied up in a car, especially with big sums like all these cars are.
Italian girls aren't cheap like my Germans!
Different league of car I understand, but the change doesn't look like its worth it at the moment. I personally like to finance as wouldn't like to have x amount of cash tied up in a car, especially with big sums like all these cars are.
Italian girls aren't cheap like my Germans!
kbf1981 said:
I went for a 488. Sounds fantastic, more modern car, 180k gets you dealer cars with plenty of service plan left that are basically in brand new condition.
The 458 is getting older now. Yes its a classic but that means you have more issues to deal with, more sensitive about using it and loss of value, in car tech is older, and tbh I don't think it makes sense at more than a 488 if you're actually using it. They're great cars but I wouldn't trade my 488 for one. It depends if you want an emerging classic or a fun supercar to drive about and enjoy, imo.
Only opinions! I got the below 488 a few months back and its fantastic!!!
I quite like that blue, what shade is it? TDF Blue? Is the stipe painted?The 458 is getting older now. Yes its a classic but that means you have more issues to deal with, more sensitive about using it and loss of value, in car tech is older, and tbh I don't think it makes sense at more than a 488 if you're actually using it. They're great cars but I wouldn't trade my 488 for one. It depends if you want an emerging classic or a fun supercar to drive about and enjoy, imo.
Only opinions! I got the below 488 a few months back and its fantastic!!!
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