F12 Berlinetta

[J-P]

Hi all,

Have been thinking about getting one of these for a while now. I've got an idea of the spec I'd want but the spread on cars available at dealerships is huge. (£160k to £400k).

What impact does mileage have? The cars seem to be very sensitive to mileage. I'd like a red car with the bucket seats but can't see one available at the moment. Is it worth getting a car from a Ferrari Indy or is approved used the best route?

How much is the annual cost to run the car? Just want to make sure I have the budgeting all down before I sell the concept to the Mrs

Also I'd want to do the occasional track no more than 3 a year but would also like to do some European trips - assume that this is well within the capability of the car but would like to get some owners' views.

Thanks in advance!

[J-P]

cake eater said:

I don't have an F12, could not quite afford it and bought a 599 instead.

F12 is the better car but I think the 599/F12 will be similar to run, especially concerning costs

I'm sure they can do the milage and trackdays. I'm also sure that they need to be well looked after. Too many miles will affect future value but you have to trade this against being able to enjoy the car.

Ferrari don't care if you bought from an independent when it comes to servicing or purchasing warranty. It just needs to pass their warranty inspection at +/- £400.
Extended new power 15 warranty costs £3,600.

If less than 7 years old standard servicing is free. To buy from main stealers will command +/- 20k privilege for equivalent car. Plan on around 1.5k for annual service.

Look at the tyres, most are still on their original Pirelli. So 1.2k to sort that.

When choosing, my though was:
Price, I set my upper limit.
Spec, I had a list of must haves and nice to have.
This narrowed the search.
Then mileage and servicing. I wanted a car that had been used but not too high milage and serviced annually.
This doesn't leave many cars.
Then the dealership. I got a bad feeling from some dealers and walked away. One main dealer thought I was just a tyre kicker. Needless to say I have since sent him a photo with my 599 and his lost sale.

Get a PPI done by an independent. Ferrari inspection is a waste of money and they missed a few things on my car.

Call the independent Ferrari specialists as they often have customers who haven't advertised but are open to selling.

Good luck with your search!

PS if you include fuel in your running costs, it's very high! I get 15mpg on the motorway but more often half that. I average £105 every fill and I was told not to let the car go below 1/4 tank.

Thanks, Cake eater - really helpful!

[J-P]

DeejRC said:

Buy post 2015 and get some peace of mind with the 7yr deal.

They bumble along at 70ish doing about 20mph. The bumpy road button is brilliant.

The sat nav works. The telephone stuff works. The air con works. It just…works.

They wake up at 3000rpm. You start worrying when you see the first change up. If you foot is still buried when the last one is lit then you’re a certified lunatic because they are unhinged by that point.

They are superbly comfy on a long drive.

I’ve just done 11,000 miles in 9 months in mine.

Wow - sounds great DeejRC!

[J-P]

johnnyreggae said:

Coincidence ? https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/ferrari...

Actually, that annoyed me (more people likely to be looking). Been thinking about one for a while. Just worried about how much it costs to run.

[J-P]

garystoybox said:

cake eater said:

There are notably less cars available for sale. F12 prices have seen a significant mark up due to speculation that Ferrari will not build any move NA V12 GT cars.

Think you’re right and will be interesting to see the future for (if any) the V12 in non halo models.
So many of the V8 forums go on and on about the 458 n/a sound. Honesty, I was really disappointed with the flat plane ‘noise’. A wonderful engine to use, but it never sounded anything special to me. I’m shaking my head at the continuous escalation of 458 prices.
The V12 however is other worldly across the rev range. The sound is the defining part of my 812 and I guess the same for the F12.
The mid engined cars will live on as hybrid V6’s, etc and will be non the worse for it. These front engined GT cars will be nothing without the huge V12’s (just look at how poor the Roma has been received, despite its handsome looks).

Good point - the car (F12) both looks and sounds wonderful from what I can tell. The dealership let me start the one they have and it did sound epic even on idle!

[J-P]

pancholi said:

J-P said:

Actually, that annoyed me (more people likely to be looking). Been thinking about one for a while. Just worried about how much it costs to run.

drive one first.....
the smile it will put on your face will be priceless
your heart will rule your wallet.

in reality, they are well built cars, with few issues.....
contrary to all the 'professional' pundits talking about the F12 depreciation...the opposite is happening.

Yeah - car looks epic and I do really want one. Looks like I'll have to see how a few things pan out over the next couple of weeks but if they do, I'll be getting one!

[J-P]

_Leg_ said:

J-P said:

Hi all,

Have been thinking about getting one of these for a while now. I've got an idea of the spec I'd want but the spread on cars available at dealerships is huge. (£160k to £400k).

What impact does mileage have? The cars seem to be very sensitive to mileage. I'd like a red car with the bucket seats but can't see one available at the moment. Is it worth getting a car from a Ferrari Indy or is approved used the best route?

How much is the annual cost to run the car? Just want to make sure I have the budgeting all down before I sell the concept to the Mrs

Also I'd want to do the occasional track no more than 3 a year but would also like to do some European trips - assume that this is well within the capability of the car but would like to get some owners' views.

Thanks in advance!

Anything over 200k is a TDF or Novitec. The price range is more like 150-200k for an F12 Berlinetta.

Some people are still hung up on mileage. I've got 30,000 miles on mine (and 30,000 miles on my 458 Spider) and as well as not having any issues with either JCT Leeds consistently tell me they are in better condition than garage queens. The lubricants etc do no good at all sat cold, not moving around the car.

Mine are red with carbon seats. I would only consider yellow other than red in a V8 Ferrari but in the V12s I personally also like the more subtle colours.

I've just had my F12 serviced outside of the included servicing for the first time. It was £1200 but I also had a few minor bits done and it came to £2100. A herbed wheel, a broken seat handle, that kind of thing. Tyres are under £1000 a set. Fuel is what it is.

I wouldn't track an F12, It's too heavy for proper track work. After testing a race car at Blyton a while back I took mine round for 3 laps and the dash lit up like Blackpool front and the front brake ducts locked open. Had to have it all reset at the dealer. Buy a lightweight track car for track work. You'll have more fun and not destroy your F12.

Mine's done most of it's miles around Europe and has been to every corner of the continent many times. Awesome GT car. However, I use it to tour with my wife (for the luggage space). When I tour with friends I take the Spider as it's more fun on the mountain passes. So it depends what type of euro trip you want to do? Tour in luxury or attack the mountain passes for fun.

Hope that helps.

Thanks _Leg_ . That's really helpful and encouraging. The £400k car is some kind of special edition (white with the number 22 on it) and very low mileage. It's for sale at Meridien Modena. I'm tempted by the Maranello car. It's red and looks absolutely sensational - I'll have to take it on the track at least once but hear what you're saying about weight.

[J-P]

Sounds good guys - I don't intend to use it as a track car, but would like to see what it can do at least once. You can't really do that on the road (unless you're happy to lose your license or a complete muppet, preferably both).

[J-P]

cake eater said:

J-P said:

Sounds good guys - I don't intend to use it as a track car, but would like to see what it can do at least once. You can't really do that on the road (unless you're happy to lose your license or a complete muppet, preferably both).

This was my thought. I spent one day at Millbrook with CAT Driver Training to get to know the car away from road or circuit. I also want to do just one trackday to explore the limit as well as a top speed run on the autobahn.

Unfortunately the two trackdays I have attempted so far, one was a no go before the start because of noise and the other ended early after one lap due to getting oil in the intake.

Oh no! Hope the car is OK now?

[J-P]

woodsypedia said:

I've had mine for a while now and it's fantastic. Running costs have been okay and I've been lucky that I haven't had any big surprise bills other than servicing / tyres. I'm not sold on Red Ferrari's so ended up with something more subtle in Grigio Titanio. As others have said - prices have started to rise, and I think we're starting to see the end for N/A V12's.

If you can afford it OP - do it - you won't be disappointed.

Cheers

Chris.

Thanks, Chris. Working on it!

[J-P]

jayemm89 said:

Quick snap taken just outside Letchworth

Oh wow - that's stunning! (And the view isn't bad either!)

[J-P]

That's stunning!

[J-P]

DeejRC said:

I *think*, or rather my instinct is that we have seen the top of the market, or at least there or there abouts. There is a very faint chance that for once I have sold at the right time and Ive come out of this one a winner.

Please note: Not only am I not a trader nor flipper, but Ive been the wrong side of the market on every other car Ive ever owned, so there is also a fair chance Im wrong on this.

. I feel your pain - been there myself more than once.

[J-P]

Curledge said:

Yeah more often than not I have bought the right cars at the wrong time.
Buy high and sell low seems to be my MO

me too buddy! The GT3 I bought was particularly painful, also the number of times I've been in a great position and made the wrong call is unbelievable!

[J-P]

MisterBigglesworth said:

I think you are right.

I think i’m going to take a pragmatic approach, if DL’s sales people do a good job and the numbers are favourable i’ll buy it, if the deal
Doesn’t work out for some reason I’ll at least have given the dealer the nod for the sort of spec i’m looking for, was hoping to hold off buying until end of summer to get through my 458 spider honeymoon period over the summer, but if I have the money for an F12 I’d rather get the purchase done so I do t have to worry about future speculation/values/availability.

Good plan! Can't see the black interior one on the website anymore.

[J-P]

MisterBigglesworth said:

This car was basically my dream spec - was a tailor made car and on the market last year for 250, sadly had just dealt on the 458 so missed out on it. Had the 599 GTO technical fabric and gloss black in place of carbon. Love the colour.



This one very similar

That red one is stunning - love it!

[J-P]

MisterBigglesworth said:

Agree - it’s one of the most beautiful specs I’ve ever seen and really makes the F12 look incredible.

Interior is quite a thing as well. More photos here

https://www.pegasusautohouse.com/product/ferrari-f...

Would love a tailor made F12 as I never realised my 458 was a tailor made car until I got the my Ferrari app

Video from when JCT sold it

https://youtu.be/qA-uFn5z46s

Turns out it has grigio ferro paint with a canne Di Fucile roof and windscreen surround - it always confused me why the roof was a shade darker and now I finally know why.

Must of cost the original owner a fortune, even the stitching is non standard.

Kind of amuses me I have a 1 of 1 tailor made car and got it cheap because it’s not resale red.

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Thursday 9th June 21:42

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Thursday 9th June 21:47

Thanks for the photos and the video - your car is an absolute beauty! I was also looking at a 458 spider. Egham has a lovely one in yellow. But think I'd want the F12 first.

[J-P]

MisterBigglesworth said:

J-P said:

MisterBigglesworth said:

Agree - it’s one of the most beautiful specs I’ve ever seen and really makes the F12 look incredible.

Interior is quite a thing as well. More photos here

https://www.pegasusautohouse.com/product/ferrari-f...

Would love a tailor made F12 as I never realised my 458 was a tailor made car until I got the my Ferrari app

Video from when JCT sold it

https://youtu.be/qA-uFn5z46s

Turns out it has grigio ferro paint with a canne Di Fucile roof and windscreen surround - it always confused me why the roof was a shade darker and now I finally know why.

Must of cost the original owner a fortune, even the stitching is non standard.

Kind of amuses me I have a 1 of 1 tailor made car and got it cheap because it’s not resale red.

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Thursday 9th June 21:42

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Thursday 9th June 21:47

Thanks for the photos and the video - your car is an absolute beauty! I was also looking at a 458 spider. Egham has a lovely one in yellow. But think I'd want the F12 first.

Thank you, I had my heart set on a red one, but I couldn’t get one anywhere near the spec of this which has every option I wanted ticked - after 9 months ownership i just realised it had HELE.

I think if I hadn’t been able to get my 458 and it had been just a standard car I would have done F12 first, i’ve missed out on 3 cars I would have wanted that were spot on spec wise including the above tailor made car but with a house move to get a 4 car garage it wasn’t viable to do both so quickly.

I think it’s easier to get a 458 spider than a F12 - there is a gorgeous light blue car at DL - never seen one in that colour and it looked stunning

I’m going back to DL on Saturday to check the seat thing again and discuss options, I really would prefer to deal local but there is a car at another dealer that would be my first pick, so want to sound them out to see if they can do some deal with the other dealer to trade it so I can buy through DL and have them prep the car to their standard which based on all the cars I looked at on Saturday was exceptionally high. If not then if DL can’t source the car I just have to be hard headed and accept that it’s the car I will live with so will need to sacrifice my chosen preferred dealer buying experience to secure the spec I want.

Tough call - there is a lot to like about the RB car - black minimalism reminds me of the 355/512TR era - if we were in last year’s market and it was 155-160 there would be more to like, but I feel it’s strong money for the spec age and miles and too close to cost of getting all my boxes ticked with a bit extra in the pot.

Can't see the blue one on the website. They do have a rather gorgeous 599 GTO though! Given where the market is, think I may wait for a bit. I suspect there'll be a reasonable to big drop in asset prices shortly given the inflation numbers we're seeing. Might get a deal on an F12 in a year or so. And I really want one of those.

[J-P]

MisterBigglesworth said:

J-P said:

MisterBigglesworth said:

J-P said:

MisterBigglesworth said:

Agree - it’s one of the most beautiful specs I’ve ever seen and really makes the F12 look incredible.

Interior is quite a thing as well. More photos here

https://www.pegasusautohouse.com/product/ferrari-f...

Would love a tailor made F12 as I never realised my 458 was a tailor made car until I got the my Ferrari app

Video from when JCT sold it

https://youtu.be/qA-uFn5z46s

Turns out it has grigio ferro paint with a canne Di Fucile roof and windscreen surround - it always confused me why the roof was a shade darker and now I finally know why.

Must of cost the original owner a fortune, even the stitching is non standard.

Kind of amuses me I have a 1 of 1 tailor made car and got it cheap because it’s not resale red.

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Thursday 9th June 21:42

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Thursday 9th June 21:47

Thanks for the photos and the video - your car is an absolute beauty! I was also looking at a 458 spider. Egham has a lovely one in yellow. But think I'd want the F12 first.

Thank you, I had my heart set on a red one, but I couldn’t get one anywhere near the spec of this which has every option I wanted ticked - after 9 months ownership i just realised it had HELE.

I think if I hadn’t been able to get my 458 and it had been just a standard car I would have done F12 first, i’ve missed out on 3 cars I would have wanted that were spot on spec wise including the above tailor made car but with a house move to get a 4 car garage it wasn’t viable to do both so quickly.

I think it’s easier to get a 458 spider than a F12 - there is a gorgeous light blue car at DL - never seen one in that colour and it looked stunning

I’m going back to DL on Saturday to check the seat thing again and discuss options, I really would prefer to deal local but there is a car at another dealer that would be my first pick, so want to sound them out to see if they can do some deal with the other dealer to trade it so I can buy through DL and have them prep the car to their standard which based on all the cars I looked at on Saturday was exceptionally high. If not then if DL can’t source the car I just have to be hard headed and accept that it’s the car I will live with so will need to sacrifice my chosen preferred dealer buying experience to secure the spec I want.

Tough call - there is a lot to like about the RB car - black minimalism reminds me of the 355/512TR era - if we were in last year’s market and it was 155-160 there would be more to like, but I feel it’s strong money for the spec age and miles and too close to cost of getting all my boxes ticked with a bit extra in the pot.

Can't see the blue one on the website. They do have a rather gorgeous 599 GTO though! Given where the market is, think I may wait for a bit. I suspect there'll be a reasonable to big drop in asset prices shortly given the inflation numbers we're seeing. Might get a deal on an F12 in a year or so. And I really want one of those.

Think you may be right on the market, Romans’ just knocked 5k off the ask on their 209k. If dealers are cutting prices at start of summer then it’s not a good sign, from what I heard there are more finance declines - funders probably getting nervous at these tippy prices and cutting balloons pushing up payments and deposits, lot of stock in the 200k plus market and not as many cash buyers with the stock crypto market heading into bearish territory.

This makes me happy, I’d prefer the market to slow down and be able to have more time to choose a car, and potentially get a better deal on a car that has gone unsold heading into winter, with a gloomy economic forecast next year imagine dealers will be aware they need to offload before winter or face depreciating stock for months into next year so patience may be a good thing here.

Here’s the 458 spider.
Takes a while for them to put them up I think. They had a lot of stock in not listed yet,]

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205065...

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Friday 10th June 22:39

Edited by MisterBigglesworth on Friday 10th June 22:39

Makes me happy too! That blue 458 does look lovely though! Still prefer to wait until the market softens a bit

[J-P]

MisterBigglesworth said:

Just got back from Dick Lovett,

Top marks to Steve the photographer at DL who let me talk his ears off and Harry who was incredibly patient and supportive and helped me make my own decision without pressure.

We talked through all the options on the car I liked and then went through the things it didn’t have to decide if I actually would need or want them or was simply chasing spec for the sake of it,

The conclusion I came to was Rosso Berlinetta really makes the car feel special - as much as I love flat Rosso the depth of the paint and the way it interacts with the light really adds a degree of depth that highlights all the curves and features of the F12 and makes it look a really special car. All the missing carbon bits are a relatively easy retro fit from Ferrari parts, as were the diamond wheels but the paint choice is what dominates the car.

So it came down to the sports seats vs Daytona’s. The other car is very well specced but with some gentle advice from Harry he felt my general leaning into the Ferrari race end of the brand rather than the luxury tourer meant the Nero race seat car would probably suit me better.

So the final selling points and why i’m happy with the car:

Was sold new from HR Owen in Kensington and services by them on the dot apart from one service by Maranello
Was last sold by JCT600 Leeds so has stayed in the dealer network and has good provenance
The Rosso Berlinetta paint was flawless - in terms of condition the car looks factory new and is better condition than 2015 cars i’ve seen
Has carbon front splitter, carbon sills and carbon treadplates - the only thing I’d add is the carbon foglamp which is a low cost thing compared to the other bits
Has grigio calipers - the paint is so special it doesn’t look right with red or yellow so grey or black calipers seem to work well.
Happy with grigio wheels - has Michelin tyres already, will buy a set of diamond cuts at some point but actually kind of like the stock wheels.
Sports seats - I think this is personal preference - I tried both and the Daytona’s are supremely comfortable, but the carbon seats are over 18,000 gbp to retrofit so if I do want Daytona seats it’s cheaper to start with carbons and order Daytona replacements.
Has lots of Alcantara - roof, rear bench and wall, side of boot trim.
White rev counter - suits the minimalist look I think,
Carbon driving zone
Has the ferrari full front and side PPF protecting the nose and carbon
Black grill - think it suits the look better and makes the all important horse stand out - plus chrome will just get covered in dead bugs and cow poo

In terms of missing options:

Actually ended up happy with the embossed headrests and Nero stitching, it just feels very old school 60’s GT
Lack of carbon bridge and dash bits -I think for Crema ‘ beige carbon looks good but with the silver door handles having an all black interior I think the splashes of silver work well so I will see how I get on - wasn’t a deal breaker as the cabin felt just right as is.
JBL audio - i’ve never used my 458 stereo once, with a V12 under the bonnet i’ll never listen to this one and it’s rubbish.
HELE - you are lucky to see enough people in Somerset to cause a traffic jam so you rarely stop.
Suspension lifter - managed fine with the 458 even in London so can live without it.

The final decision.
I’m buying from my local dealer Dick Lovett, and their showroom is one of the best Ferrari brand buying experiences.
2 year warranty plus DL’s reputation for goodwill on supporting cars they sold and the fact they will be looking after my cars long term now
The numbers made sense. I’d rather have a fully prepped car from Ferrari than a bit of extra carbon without that security - the centrepiece of the car is the engine, everything else is just lingerie.

So, my heart and head agreed, 5k deposit paid.

Haven’t driven the car yet, and don’t want to until it’s mine. Then if the deal falls though for whatever reason I won’t miss what I don’t yet know and the first time I want to fire up the engine is when my name is on the V5 - the anticipation of waiting will motivate me to get through all the finance paperwork and secure my new client contracts.

Proposal will go in to Ferrari finance next week and i’ll get a back up quote from Aldermore.

Many sleepless nights ahead, but pragmatic - it god was me to own this F12 it will happen, otherwise I will work even harder until it does.

I’m prudent usually, but this time I realised I can make more money but I will never buy more time, even if i’m Buying at the top of the market it’s still cheaper than the first owner paid and it is still one of the greatest Ferrari’s made.

Thank you for everyone’s advice, which I followed apart from the seats
The deal felt right
The car felt right
If it works out then I will be like a 4 year old at Christmas and know I made the right decision and love the car to bits.

Let’s hope the underwriters had a good weekend

Will admit to having a bit of a cry on the way home, i lost my dad to cancer the year this car was registered and I wish he had been here for this.

Congratulations buddy! Think you have an absolute stunner there. Your Dad would have been incredibly proud of you and I'm sure is looking down and smiling . I think you and that F12 is the beginning of a beautiful relationship. Enjoy buddy!