Orange Murcielago in Paris
Discussion
Afternoon,
A good day but not a great one - weather / nerves.
Flight out of London city was delayed and we landed in Paris Orly in the pouring rain - dealer was a 15 min ride away.
There were two guys working there, one who speaks English but knows nothing about the cars, and one of speaks French and knows about them.
Have you changed the oil filter ? - it leaked badly when I looked at it and they had said they would change it. I quite like the French mannerisms, there was genuine shrugging of shoulders, some little noises followed by a "NO". They had tightened it up. I tried to protest but gave up after more shrugging from them. Upon inspection it seemed to have stopped leaking - but yet another job to be put on the list.
What about my Warranty ?
I had cunningly negotiated a 3 hour warranty to get me to Calais, but had gone with a friend and I was going to pay for lunch. I managed to get them up to four and a half hours! 1 hour for lunch 3 hour drive. We both signed the paper, the car was very much "sold as seen".
It has 1 key and fob - they will send the other when they get it - hopefully.
The French speaker then started making noises about the clutch - this was translated to be careful when getting on and off the train -short steep gradients aren't its forte. They said it has about 20% clutch life left, not as much as I would have hoped for but so be it.
Will it get me to Calais, again some noises and discussion in French - a not very convincing yes...
Petrol ? yes it has some... In fairness it was half full and I put another €100 in filling it up it got me all the way home.
We then set off in the pouring rain.
I was surprised at visibility - the large wing mirrors are excellent, but rear vision is poor and I am not skilled enough to open the door and sit on the sill.
The first 5 mins were fine, a touch nervous a little discomfort in the pit of my stomach, but progress was good. We then hit the "periphery" and traffic ground to a halt. I don't know if any of you know the south east area of Paris, but as you follow the A3 and A86 you go through a lot of tunnels, some with modest inclines in them. I now felt sick and scared. On and off the clutch inching forward was not nice. Should it have died there I was in real trouble.
It then started to "hunt" now I have read about this - clean the throttle bodies and resync them on diagnostics, but 500 to 2000 revs and back again is a horrible feeling, when stuck in a 3 lane tunnel. I didn't feel very cool either.
Eventually the road cleared and the car felt better - it had nearly stopped raining. We stopped at Senlis - pretty little town, for a quick lunch - quick as 4 hour warranty was ticking away. Stalled a couple of times reversing it but no undue noises or smells.
Back on the A1 in the dry and the car came alive, once moving the clutch and hunting problems go away, I could accelerate hard in all gears without any clutch slip, it just pulled. I believe it has Tubi Sport pipes on it that make a great noise, the car wanted to pull to the right slightly but nothing too bad. No trim rattles, nothing fell off it was fast loud and very smooth. Oil pressure read a steady 6 bar cruising at 100, temperature gauges both oil and water worked sitting not quite half way, oh and the fuel gauge works - very quickly. The suspension was on Auto and could see it moving through the various settings, so that worked aswell. I doubt there was any difference in the way the car felt or drove than the orange one for sale on PistonHeads for £106,000, other than the pulling to the right.
Windows, mirrors, air con and the rear spoiler all worked as they should. Somebody had fitted an after market stereo with a 7 inch screen that kept opening and blocking the air con controls. The "vents" on the rear wings open on the button, but the car was never hot enough for them to open automatically.
We arrived at Calais 30 mins outside the warranty, but the car was either going to make it or it wasn't, 30 mins didn't make much difference. There had been a problem during the day so there was a 3 hour delay. This has caused a back up at UK passport - the queue snaked back through French passport control. This was when the hunting became embarrassing as it is so loud suddenly going to 2000 revs everybody looks at the boy racer. I would drive forward a couple of car lengths and then switch the car off, rather than have it making such a noise. Then all of a sudden it levelled out at 1000 revs and seemed ok. I am now thinking the clutch is ok, but the hunting is a problem and in turn is causing the clutch problems. As you are never quite sure what revs you are going to get when you pull away you either stall or pull away at 2000 revs which makes a hell of a noise and a smell. This morning I drove out of the garage down our little road on just the clutch - no drama nothing. I planned my journey to the MOT via the least amount of traffic lights as once warmed up it started hunting again.
Train was uneventful on and off, I waited until the queue on the ramp had gone as there was no way I was doing a hill start in it ! Biblical levels of rain on the M20, and due to the poor quality of our road a few trim rattles from the drivers door. Reasonably steady at speed in the rain and standing water.
Car will fail the MOT, but I asked that he only fail it on "cheap" items..
Bad points.
Ripped steering rack gaiters.
Hunting / possibly clutch
Front lift system worked when I went to view the car, but didn't seem to work at Calais
Interior needs a little tidying, some leather pulling away on door cards due to failed glue, the radio, and some of the rubberised coating is coming off the buttons - but no worse than the Ferrari 550, and not a huge job.
Handbrake - very difficult to get it to release, all I ended up doing was pulling it on more and more.
One of the rear vents doesn't sit flush - it works so just needs a bit of repositioning.
Tyres - I think they will pass MOT but the rears will be a "notice".
I have a lift in the garage with another car on top, as the doors open upwards I couldn't get out of the car !!
Good Points
Everything else, it is fast, wide, loud, orange and the doors go up !
I think I have been lucky here - although will report back MOT failings, yes it was a risk. I think the hunting and poor history put most people off. I don't think it was a hire or track day car. the drivers seat looks ok for 50,000miles. The car was sold new in Monaco and had been seen Switzerland and finally Paris, so perhaps the miles were motorway ones ??
Overall very pleased, not as pleased as our 7 year old who was up before 7 to sit in and rev it !
del
A good day but not a great one - weather / nerves.
Flight out of London city was delayed and we landed in Paris Orly in the pouring rain - dealer was a 15 min ride away.
There were two guys working there, one who speaks English but knows nothing about the cars, and one of speaks French and knows about them.
Have you changed the oil filter ? - it leaked badly when I looked at it and they had said they would change it. I quite like the French mannerisms, there was genuine shrugging of shoulders, some little noises followed by a "NO". They had tightened it up. I tried to protest but gave up after more shrugging from them. Upon inspection it seemed to have stopped leaking - but yet another job to be put on the list.
What about my Warranty ?
I had cunningly negotiated a 3 hour warranty to get me to Calais, but had gone with a friend and I was going to pay for lunch. I managed to get them up to four and a half hours! 1 hour for lunch 3 hour drive. We both signed the paper, the car was very much "sold as seen".
It has 1 key and fob - they will send the other when they get it - hopefully.
The French speaker then started making noises about the clutch - this was translated to be careful when getting on and off the train -short steep gradients aren't its forte. They said it has about 20% clutch life left, not as much as I would have hoped for but so be it.
Will it get me to Calais, again some noises and discussion in French - a not very convincing yes...
Petrol ? yes it has some... In fairness it was half full and I put another €100 in filling it up it got me all the way home.
We then set off in the pouring rain.
I was surprised at visibility - the large wing mirrors are excellent, but rear vision is poor and I am not skilled enough to open the door and sit on the sill.
The first 5 mins were fine, a touch nervous a little discomfort in the pit of my stomach, but progress was good. We then hit the "periphery" and traffic ground to a halt. I don't know if any of you know the south east area of Paris, but as you follow the A3 and A86 you go through a lot of tunnels, some with modest inclines in them. I now felt sick and scared. On and off the clutch inching forward was not nice. Should it have died there I was in real trouble.
It then started to "hunt" now I have read about this - clean the throttle bodies and resync them on diagnostics, but 500 to 2000 revs and back again is a horrible feeling, when stuck in a 3 lane tunnel. I didn't feel very cool either.
Eventually the road cleared and the car felt better - it had nearly stopped raining. We stopped at Senlis - pretty little town, for a quick lunch - quick as 4 hour warranty was ticking away. Stalled a couple of times reversing it but no undue noises or smells.
Back on the A1 in the dry and the car came alive, once moving the clutch and hunting problems go away, I could accelerate hard in all gears without any clutch slip, it just pulled. I believe it has Tubi Sport pipes on it that make a great noise, the car wanted to pull to the right slightly but nothing too bad. No trim rattles, nothing fell off it was fast loud and very smooth. Oil pressure read a steady 6 bar cruising at 100, temperature gauges both oil and water worked sitting not quite half way, oh and the fuel gauge works - very quickly. The suspension was on Auto and could see it moving through the various settings, so that worked aswell. I doubt there was any difference in the way the car felt or drove than the orange one for sale on PistonHeads for £106,000, other than the pulling to the right.
Windows, mirrors, air con and the rear spoiler all worked as they should. Somebody had fitted an after market stereo with a 7 inch screen that kept opening and blocking the air con controls. The "vents" on the rear wings open on the button, but the car was never hot enough for them to open automatically.
We arrived at Calais 30 mins outside the warranty, but the car was either going to make it or it wasn't, 30 mins didn't make much difference. There had been a problem during the day so there was a 3 hour delay. This has caused a back up at UK passport - the queue snaked back through French passport control. This was when the hunting became embarrassing as it is so loud suddenly going to 2000 revs everybody looks at the boy racer. I would drive forward a couple of car lengths and then switch the car off, rather than have it making such a noise. Then all of a sudden it levelled out at 1000 revs and seemed ok. I am now thinking the clutch is ok, but the hunting is a problem and in turn is causing the clutch problems. As you are never quite sure what revs you are going to get when you pull away you either stall or pull away at 2000 revs which makes a hell of a noise and a smell. This morning I drove out of the garage down our little road on just the clutch - no drama nothing. I planned my journey to the MOT via the least amount of traffic lights as once warmed up it started hunting again.
Train was uneventful on and off, I waited until the queue on the ramp had gone as there was no way I was doing a hill start in it ! Biblical levels of rain on the M20, and due to the poor quality of our road a few trim rattles from the drivers door. Reasonably steady at speed in the rain and standing water.
Car will fail the MOT, but I asked that he only fail it on "cheap" items..
Bad points.
Ripped steering rack gaiters.
Hunting / possibly clutch
Front lift system worked when I went to view the car, but didn't seem to work at Calais
Interior needs a little tidying, some leather pulling away on door cards due to failed glue, the radio, and some of the rubberised coating is coming off the buttons - but no worse than the Ferrari 550, and not a huge job.
Handbrake - very difficult to get it to release, all I ended up doing was pulling it on more and more.
One of the rear vents doesn't sit flush - it works so just needs a bit of repositioning.
Tyres - I think they will pass MOT but the rears will be a "notice".
I have a lift in the garage with another car on top, as the doors open upwards I couldn't get out of the car !!
Good Points
Everything else, it is fast, wide, loud, orange and the doors go up !
I think I have been lucky here - although will report back MOT failings, yes it was a risk. I think the hunting and poor history put most people off. I don't think it was a hire or track day car. the drivers seat looks ok for 50,000miles. The car was sold new in Monaco and had been seen Switzerland and finally Paris, so perhaps the miles were motorway ones ??
Overall very pleased, not as pleased as our 7 year old who was up before 7 to sit in and rev it !
del
Gareth - you wimp ! 
It was a nervy 10 mins - the front was worse than the rear.
The car failed its MOT on Steering rack gaiters only ! I view that as success, I have order a pair from Sevenoaks.
Offending items removed last night
The car is legal and safe to drive - granted the MOT makes no reference to the Clutch or Engine health, but I am half way there.
I removed the air intake hoses and cleaned out the throttle bodies;
I then replaced all the clips with new jubilee ones, the older ones were not a tight fit, the car now idles at 1100, without the hunting upto 2000 revs. It is much easier to pull away in now. No excessive revving - I even drove away on a slight incline without any problems.
It has K & N filters which need a good clean - part number 33 - 2573, they come up as an old BMW 5 series or Audi A6.
Some rust on the rear sub frame around exhaust brackets, but nothing a good scrub down and repaint wouldn't address. If I can remove them I will get them powder coated.
Will order engine oil, diff/gearbox oil and plugs and change all them - having a lift is wonderful and I am too tight to pay a dealer for a job I THINK !! I can do myself....
The last service used 10w60, which seems to go against the 5 or 10w40 - I know oil always creates much discussion - but what is everybody else using ?
There is a cd changer and sat nav system behind the passenger seat (LHD), I presume you need the original head unit with these ?
Del.
It was a nervy 10 mins - the front was worse than the rear.
The car failed its MOT on Steering rack gaiters only ! I view that as success, I have order a pair from Sevenoaks.
Offending items removed last night
The car is legal and safe to drive - granted the MOT makes no reference to the Clutch or Engine health, but I am half way there.
I removed the air intake hoses and cleaned out the throttle bodies;
I then replaced all the clips with new jubilee ones, the older ones were not a tight fit, the car now idles at 1100, without the hunting upto 2000 revs. It is much easier to pull away in now. No excessive revving - I even drove away on a slight incline without any problems.
It has K & N filters which need a good clean - part number 33 - 2573, they come up as an old BMW 5 series or Audi A6.
Some rust on the rear sub frame around exhaust brackets, but nothing a good scrub down and repaint wouldn't address. If I can remove them I will get them powder coated.
Will order engine oil, diff/gearbox oil and plugs and change all them - having a lift is wonderful and I am too tight to pay a dealer for a job I THINK !! I can do myself....
The last service used 10w60, which seems to go against the 5 or 10w40 - I know oil always creates much discussion - but what is everybody else using ?
There is a cd changer and sat nav system behind the passenger seat (LHD), I presume you need the original head unit with these ?
Del.
It was not the most expensive car in Europe, and the poor service history put people off ! I went to view it in August and then agreed a price when the Garage realised how much work was needed......
Registering the car.
You need to register it on-line via NOVA - 3 min job.
MOT
Form V55/5 - 10 days for the thing to turn up !
You may or may not need a certificate of conformity - a main dealer can supply these.
Chubb gave me 15 days coverage to get it to and from garages etc, you can pick and choose when you use the days. This Friday it will be MOT'd and I have used 4 days, but they now wont let me drive the car until it is fully registered. Which could be easy, but it could be a few weeks. They wont amend the policy to laid up or offer any reduction in premium for the period when they know the car cannot be driven - I will winge at them a bit more, that does not sound TCF "Treating Customers Fairly" !
The ashtray is broken - cheap plastic hinges with a heavy metal cover glued on it. Eurospares has the plastic base for £88 plus VAT !!! I removed it last night and it has an Audi part number stamped on it - £20 on ebay.
I went for Motul Oil for the gearbox / diffs and Millers for the Engine, along with NKG plugs from Opie Oils- £300 !
I cleaned up the underneath of the car, engine and gearbox diffs where the oil filter had been leaking. As it is now all clean I can look for any other leaks. Not as confident over power steering pipes, they seem wet. Original pipes are £400 plus VAT and as rigid a pain to fit. If they need replacing I was going to get some quality braided hoses made up - noting the increased pressure needed for the lifting system. Cheaper and easier to fit although I would probably still need to remove the front diff and prop shaft.
Things like this I am happy to have a go at, the experts didn't train for years to change a metal pipe, their skill is in rebuilding engines etc.
Del
Registering the car.
You need to register it on-line via NOVA - 3 min job.
MOT
Form V55/5 - 10 days for the thing to turn up !
You may or may not need a certificate of conformity - a main dealer can supply these.
Chubb gave me 15 days coverage to get it to and from garages etc, you can pick and choose when you use the days. This Friday it will be MOT'd and I have used 4 days, but they now wont let me drive the car until it is fully registered. Which could be easy, but it could be a few weeks. They wont amend the policy to laid up or offer any reduction in premium for the period when they know the car cannot be driven - I will winge at them a bit more, that does not sound TCF "Treating Customers Fairly" !
The ashtray is broken - cheap plastic hinges with a heavy metal cover glued on it. Eurospares has the plastic base for £88 plus VAT !!! I removed it last night and it has an Audi part number stamped on it - £20 on ebay.
I went for Motul Oil for the gearbox / diffs and Millers for the Engine, along with NKG plugs from Opie Oils- £300 !
I cleaned up the underneath of the car, engine and gearbox diffs where the oil filter had been leaking. As it is now all clean I can look for any other leaks. Not as confident over power steering pipes, they seem wet. Original pipes are £400 plus VAT and as rigid a pain to fit. If they need replacing I was going to get some quality braided hoses made up - noting the increased pressure needed for the lifting system. Cheaper and easier to fit although I would probably still need to remove the front diff and prop shaft.
Things like this I am happy to have a go at, the experts didn't train for years to change a metal pipe, their skill is in rebuilding engines etc.
Del
The headlights can be adjusted.
Eu cars have fog lights - I think it is the Japanese only cars that didn't.
Speedo - on new cars I think you do need to change them, that said I have a UK RHD Maserati Ghibli (90's car) and that had a KM speedo fitted from new, the factory "ran out" of mph ones and other than an HPI report looking odd has never caused any problems.
Del
Eu cars have fog lights - I think it is the Japanese only cars that didn't.
Speedo - on new cars I think you do need to change them, that said I have a UK RHD Maserati Ghibli (90's car) and that had a KM speedo fitted from new, the factory "ran out" of mph ones and other than an HPI report looking odd has never caused any problems.
Del
Morning,
Oil Filter - not yet, Sevenoaks wanted £21 plus VAT so not too bad.
Tracker no, and the quote sheet they sent out said "no tracker" - yes it is insured on the VIN.
Will investigate the return hose - thanks.
One of the "bat wings" did not sit flush almost as if something was blocking it returning to flush position. The "ram" the lifts and lowers can be wound in or out to adjust he height - simple fix !
Removing nearside air filter is a pig every bolt is blocked by something, whereas the off side comes off really easy. There is what I can only imagine is a oil breather pipe coming into the bottom of the nearside air box which is split will need to find and order one of those.
Del
Oil Filter - not yet, Sevenoaks wanted £21 plus VAT so not too bad.
Tracker no, and the quote sheet they sent out said "no tracker" - yes it is insured on the VIN.
Will investigate the return hose - thanks.
One of the "bat wings" did not sit flush almost as if something was blocking it returning to flush position. The "ram" the lifts and lowers can be wound in or out to adjust he height - simple fix !
Removing nearside air filter is a pig every bolt is blocked by something, whereas the off side comes off really easy. There is what I can only imagine is a oil breather pipe coming into the bottom of the nearside air box which is split will need to find and order one of those.
Del
Morning,
Have now changed engine oil/filter, gearbox and diff oils and plugs.
Plugs - what a pig of a job. You can't see all of them, unless you start removing throttle bodies and pipework, which I was not too keen to do. You can see 3 / 4 on each side the others are done blind. The car was missing 1 of the little metal clips that hold the coils in place, and if you drop one of them they seem to vanish...... I now need to buy 2 at £22 each !
Gearbox and diff oil are easy to do, I bought a large metal 500ml syringe to refill.
Engine oil is ok, drain the sump, remove the filter - this is trickier than it sounds as the filter is vertical as you start to undo it oil comes out coating the filter and your hands, to the point where I couldn't hold it and dropped it on the floor, the splash covered me and the front of the car behind it. Then drain the oil tank, I found removing the under tray by the tank made it easier to see what you are doing. 3.5l in the engine 8l in the tank and then just top up the oil tank as you check the level. Having never owned a dry sump car, checking the oil seems a ridiculous way to do it, and despite putting in 12l, I couldn't tell you whether it is fine or not.
Number plate turned up, so I am all ready to go, will book in with Carerra Sport and see what they think - hopefully a good solid car, just needs a little bit of tidying around the edges.....
You do not need a certificate of conformity for a car over 10 years old.
Del
Have now changed engine oil/filter, gearbox and diff oils and plugs.
Plugs - what a pig of a job. You can't see all of them, unless you start removing throttle bodies and pipework, which I was not too keen to do. You can see 3 / 4 on each side the others are done blind. The car was missing 1 of the little metal clips that hold the coils in place, and if you drop one of them they seem to vanish...... I now need to buy 2 at £22 each !
Gearbox and diff oil are easy to do, I bought a large metal 500ml syringe to refill.
Engine oil is ok, drain the sump, remove the filter - this is trickier than it sounds as the filter is vertical as you start to undo it oil comes out coating the filter and your hands, to the point where I couldn't hold it and dropped it on the floor, the splash covered me and the front of the car behind it. Then drain the oil tank, I found removing the under tray by the tank made it easier to see what you are doing. 3.5l in the engine 8l in the tank and then just top up the oil tank as you check the level. Having never owned a dry sump car, checking the oil seems a ridiculous way to do it, and despite putting in 12l, I couldn't tell you whether it is fine or not.
Number plate turned up, so I am all ready to go, will book in with Carerra Sport and see what they think - hopefully a good solid car, just needs a little bit of tidying around the edges.....
You do not need a certificate of conformity for a car over 10 years old.
Del
All done - clean bill of health !
The only things flagged that I was not really aware of were;
Light cracking on the tyre sidewalls - the fronts were dated 2007.
Too much oil in it, not enough coolant and a large nail in a tyre.
The rest was power steering pipes and general cosmetics - granted general cosmetics could be a few hundred or thousands of pounds but there are no major issues to worry about. It is not two cars welded together nor does it need an engine re-build. I know people have different views on measuring clutch wear but he felt on a purely mechanical set up it is impossible to measure.
They are going to e-mail a copy of the report that I will post when I get it.
The car has gone from being one which lots of people - including myself were wary of/ scared away from to one that has a value and people would be interested in - He who dares....
Although scruffy premises he did have some cars in there;
3 Countach
1 Diablo Roadster, the purple one with pink and purple seats - the interior is very impressive.
Ferrari 308 and 360.
Lots of big freshly built shiny engines !
Del
The only things flagged that I was not really aware of were;
Light cracking on the tyre sidewalls - the fronts were dated 2007.
Too much oil in it, not enough coolant and a large nail in a tyre.
The rest was power steering pipes and general cosmetics - granted general cosmetics could be a few hundred or thousands of pounds but there are no major issues to worry about. It is not two cars welded together nor does it need an engine re-build. I know people have different views on measuring clutch wear but he felt on a purely mechanical set up it is impossible to measure.
They are going to e-mail a copy of the report that I will post when I get it.
The car has gone from being one which lots of people - including myself were wary of/ scared away from to one that has a value and people would be interested in - He who dares....
Although scruffy premises he did have some cars in there;
3 Countach
1 Diablo Roadster, the purple one with pink and purple seats - the interior is very impressive.
Ferrari 308 and 360.
Lots of big freshly built shiny engines !
Del
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