MP4 12C Deprecation and Brand Value

[APOLO1]

How do we feel that this is best dealt with, Instead of the never seen before discounts on new or almost new cars, would it not be better just to realign the price with what the market is saying with regard to Brand value, not unlike they have done in other markets.

IMHO

[APOLO1]

you could not burn cash, at the pace that these cars loose money. I bet the retailer above was happy just to recoup a tiny amount of his initial purchase outlay.

[APOLO1]

respectfully, you are forgetting one thing, I assume that the intention was to build the brand.

Take Porsche for example, one of the criteria on new product pricing is residual value, they understand the importance of a satisfied customer, i.e. repeat custom rate is at 7 out of 10.

I do not follow your logic or reasoning, how can be acceptable for a vehicle to lose over 85k in 9 months and 8k miles of ownership

[APOLO1]

nothing could be further from the truth. In my view the 12C is the best performance car to hit the market in the past 10 years. I am about to buy my 3rd

To put over 600BHP, into a rear wheel drive car that a person as in myself with limited skills, can drive on track within times that I have only dreamt about, let alone be used a continental daily driver.

I did over 15 full on track days in my coupe, It never missed a beat.

What I do no understand is as to why large % discounts are offered from new or nearly new cars, as such driving the residual prices into the ground. Why not just realign the price from new and hold firm. This IMHO would help the brand no end.

[APOLO1]

Guyer, respectfully. Your comments are not in line with the Facts. My Co director sits on the Supervisory board at AG, Residual values are discussed extensively when evaluating new product pricing.

It is also within my direct knowledge that in part the examples your give are perverse. Back in the UK my 991 S cost 86k new, ok with discount done 6k miles, part ex price agst , 991 tts 79k, perfectly reasonable. Cayenne 3.0 TDI, 25k miles part ex loss just over 1k, Ok the car was still in play at the time. Stupid comment with regard to 458 SP, trading over list in UK. Trying to sell my friends for past 6 months, best offer 35k behind with 700 miles

CC8 above, has the best way forward, as in stick to a Fantasy Garage.....lolllllll

Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 4th August 12:13

[APOLO1]

Guyer...respectfully your posts follow no logic, along with a lack of cogency. May I refer you back to the OP, we are not debating 10 year old Porsches.........lol

Cherry picking low hanging fruits' with the odd car over the past 10 years has no purpose on this topic. That being as to why offer a substantive discount on new or slightly used 12Cs, when IMHO the more suitable use of funds would be to realign the recommended retail price in line with that of the market.

Good Luck.

[APOLO1]

nah mate, you are wrong car for car, a 458 will out sell its equivalent 12C by around 30k advantage, forget what you see them advertised for it what they actually sell for that counts......this does not imply that the 458 is a better car, in particular a drivers car, its all down to IMHO the brand advantage......

[APOLO1]

its worse than that, they did not even want to talk about it, got cut off in mid conversation.

My SP was list at 260k 600 miles, it made more than 205, but not 210, my coupe a May 12, with 8.4k miles list was or is now, price adjusted. 217k, I paid 205k at the time, new tyres and brakes for sale, fully paint shield from new. Only one offer in 6 months, 135.5k. I sold my friends equivalent 458, ok 7.9k miles and in white April 12. Sold after 3 phone calls on same day for 167k......I rest my case

[APOLO1]

I assume that they have a big margin in the 12C, and they need the £ from these sales in order to fund other projects. no problem in that, but they should not assume that they can sit up at the dinner table with Ferrari, very arrogant to assume this

I can say with some comfort that IMHO a 20-25k price drop across the range would result in a big increase in sales not just here around the world. I have never ever seen so much appraise world wide on any car , to that of the 12C, Sp.

reminds me of when we were selling a medical product into Asia a few years back, we tried to price our self's in line with our competitors, we knew and more important the market knew as is with the 12c, that we had the best product, but we could not compete against established brands, so we dropped our price 15% sales increased 3 then 4 then 5 fold, ....they should do the same with 12c, it is by far the best drivers car out there, right now

off now till end Oct, good luck and good health

[APOLO1]

this is exactly were we are right now,I have several pms, from upset owners that have paid full up list, I am one x 2, far better to fezz up now, realign the price and hold firm.

lol.......im gone last post......

Edited by APOLO1 on Monday 5th August 17:31

[APOLO1]

If this were a publicly traded stock. I would have a very large short holding.

[APOLO1]

respectfully I do not agree with you that the 991 GT3 is a dedicated track day car, It is more compliant on the road than a 991S. You are also wrong about the 12Cs suspension, it is a very old tech. wise,For me the best part is the engine and Box, It feels so strong. Although having said this TWR have to take a lot of credit for the engine

Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 20th August 09:54

[APOLO1]

not quite right, the original design for the engine, as in a light weight, compact high power V8 turbo was TWRs. They needed an engine when the AMG deal did not go through.....IMHO.

Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 20th August 12:19

[APOLO1]

yes......it would be a good short IMHO,

[APOLO1]

I have done over 14k miles, on road and track, in 991S, and driven the 991 GT3, for 30 mins. In none sport mode IMHO the GT3, is more comfortable than the 991s

[APOLO1]

it was LHD I was asked not to push it. I get my RHD the back end of next month 1st one in UK. With regard to the 4.0, it is well known that the 997 is flawed ie front end track. For me i can drive the 991S much faster then the 4.0

[APOLO1]

Under steer due to the restricted width of the front end track, of which was designed out on the 991 chassis. Whilst the 4.0 is fun for 20 mins, in my hands I find it hard work,

The best car I have ever owned to date on both road and track has to be the 12C, I did over 12 full on track days in my coupe, never at any time missed a beat, About to buy my 3rd at my price......just waiting to see if they announce a GT3 version for next months show.

[APOLO1]

I recall AP, the GT3 is road car for the track, the RS is a track car for the road.

[APOLO1]

They have got this so wrong, in every way If they had F management at the helm they could not have done a worse Job, IMHO. Although the current MD I have to say is doing his best under the circumstances.

The ironic thing is, the car is brilliant and could just go down as the car of the decade.

The biggest mistake in my view is arrogance.

[APOLO1]

Nope.....almost. mine is the 1st RHD to be built out of the 1st run. As I intend to do a factory collection, there is a good chance my car will be 1st one in the UK. My LHD Monaco car is Nov build.......

Edited by APOLO1 on Wednesday 21st August 08:56