So I test drove a 12C today
Discussion
Those who frequently visit the Aston Martin forum will know that I'm shortly to be parting ways with my V12 Vantage as I look for an automatic supercar that may be better suited for everyday use. I narrowed this down to the 458, 12C and 911 Turbo S.
I was incredibly excited to test drive a 12C this morning. Everything about it seemed perfect with the exception of the gearbox. It felt really slow and delayed compared to the 458. When you downshift in a 458 the change happens the microsecond you click the paddle, but it felt like the 12C had a slight delay which means it felt unresponsive to me. As a dual-clutch gearbox I assumed it would match that of the 458? (Apart from that, everything was perfect).
Looking forward to your thoughts?
I was incredibly excited to test drive a 12C this morning. Everything about it seemed perfect with the exception of the gearbox. It felt really slow and delayed compared to the 458. When you downshift in a 458 the change happens the microsecond you click the paddle, but it felt like the 12C had a slight delay which means it felt unresponsive to me. As a dual-clutch gearbox I assumed it would match that of the 458? (Apart from that, everything was perfect).
Looking forward to your thoughts?
Edited by controlz on Wednesday 17th June 16:07
cwin said:
As above, if you select track mode the gearbox is instantaneous, it was the whole package for me that did it the suspension is in a different league to anything else and it's that what makes it so usable IMHO
I like the option of having a superb gearbox in track mode and the suspension in normal mode for the road if I want to use it manually.
It's a hell of a car for the money !
Interesting, I didn't put it in Track mode as the salesman said the gear speed change doesn't change. Why do the put a slower shift in Normal/Sport? Seems a bit pointless.I like the option of having a superb gearbox in track mode and the suspension in normal mode for the road if I want to use it manually.
It's a hell of a car for the money !
mb1 said:
Hi Controlz, I witnessed you getting into the V12V as I was selling mine for a 12C.
Looks like you are considering the right option with the 12C.
If you are going to use the car regularely, which I think I remember you do, then forget the 458...
The Porsche will be bullet proof and easier to live with I am sure but will be boring.
The 12C has been such a brilliant car for the last 8 months for me. I do not regret the V12V.
Thanks for your post. Funnily, it was your thread in the AM forum that made me go and want to test drive the 12C! I'm still a bit unconvinced though, I really felt like the gearbox was sluggish - it reminded me of the Sportshift single clutch in the Vantage S. The 12C didn't seem any more practical to me over the 458 from a daily driver perspective. What makes you feel differently?Looks like you are considering the right option with the 12C.
If you are going to use the car regularely, which I think I remember you do, then forget the 458...
The Porsche will be bullet proof and easier to live with I am sure but will be boring.
The 12C has been such a brilliant car for the last 8 months for me. I do not regret the V12V.
Geoff Stilwell said:
Can I suggest you go back and have another drive. What year is the one you are driving and which dealer? Seriously as for day to day driving the McLaren will knock the socks off a 458. Comfort, fun, running costs if that bother you,
Make sure it has had all the latest software updates. Try driving it in auto to start with. Then put the car into track/sport mode and then drive it like you stole it!! Trust me you won't say it's slow then!! if you have it in manual and you are cruising round town it will not change up if you are not going fast enough so the change may seem slow. Personally..I leave mine in auto unless I want to play.
Mclarens are a whole different ball game from an Aston or a Ferrari You have to drive a McLaren differently...I left foot brake for example....they are simply stunning as to ride comfort. So go back ..have another drive. it took me a good few miles to understand how to drive it and now I tell you.....they are amazing.
Geoff, interesting post, thank you. It was 2011 and I am unsure regarding to updates. In terms of my thoughts on a suggish gear change, I am referring to the delay between clicking the paddle and the gear actually changing in manual as opposed to automatic changed. I've been watching some videos too online and it seems like the gap between selecting a gear and it engaging is double as fast in the Ferrari. Perhaps I'm imagining it! How do you think residuals will hold once the 570s and 540c are out?Make sure it has had all the latest software updates. Try driving it in auto to start with. Then put the car into track/sport mode and then drive it like you stole it!! Trust me you won't say it's slow then!! if you have it in manual and you are cruising round town it will not change up if you are not going fast enough so the change may seem slow. Personally..I leave mine in auto unless I want to play.
Mclarens are a whole different ball game from an Aston or a Ferrari You have to drive a McLaren differently...I left foot brake for example....they are simply stunning as to ride comfort. So go back ..have another drive. it took me a good few miles to understand how to drive it and now I tell you.....they are amazing.
isaldiri said:
The gearbox speed is quite throttle dependent, even on the track powertrain mode. Hard on the throttle it changes very quickly, otherwise.. much less so especially when compared against the 458. you can obviously use the precog function though for a faster shift....
Speaking of precog, this makes the paddles a bit firmer to push than the 458, I missed changing gears a few times. Oh god.. there goes Controlz complaining at the gear lever again 
I'm in a real dilemma here - -> Enjoyment of Ferrari + the Badge vs Incredible engineering of Mclaren + Less flash!!
isaldiri said:
That reminds me actually. the 2011/2012 cars have pretty firm paddle throw (you can adjust them to a certain extent). the 2013/650 have much lighter control weights the same paddles (much more like Ferrari). It's not pre cog that does that, simply the way they were setup, precog just gives you the slight indent before the actual gearchange switch triggers.
Have to disagree with mb1 earlier, the 458 is IMO every bit as usable as the 12c even if IMO the overall build quality of any 12c is a good bit better. Ok the suspension is firmer but the magride in the 458 really is very good (even if not quite as good as on the R8!) and the car is actually a good bit quieter idling around traffic than the 12c with sports exhaust. It's only above 3k rpm when the exhaust valves open that you get that really blaring and annoying ferrari noise..... Unfortunately the 12c draws no less attention as well....
Would say the cars are different enough to drive you'd instantly know which car you prefer once you drive one about a bit when able to put your foot down so if that doesn't decide you and it's down to other factors, if the Ferrari history badge thing matters to you though, arguably you should give the 458 a try.
A very insightful post, thank you. I believe there is a button on the steering wheel to loosen up the ride a bit although I didn't use it on my test drive I don't think. Do you find that makes a large difference?Have to disagree with mb1 earlier, the 458 is IMO every bit as usable as the 12c even if IMO the overall build quality of any 12c is a good bit better. Ok the suspension is firmer but the magride in the 458 really is very good (even if not quite as good as on the R8!) and the car is actually a good bit quieter idling around traffic than the 12c with sports exhaust. It's only above 3k rpm when the exhaust valves open that you get that really blaring and annoying ferrari noise..... Unfortunately the 12c draws no less attention as well....
Would say the cars are different enough to drive you'd instantly know which car you prefer once you drive one about a bit when able to put your foot down so if that doesn't decide you and it's down to other factors, if the Ferrari history badge thing matters to you though, arguably you should give the 458 a try.
Edited by isaldiri on Thursday 18th June 18:47
Mb1 - how are you finding the turbo lag compared to the v12. It's the first thing I noticed when it didn't pull away instantly!!
isaldiri said:
If I could be pedantic, you are talking about boost threshold not turbo lag. There is some lag above 4k rpm but it's really not such a big deal imo albeit no turbo really can compete with something like the 458's engine response and sharpness.
Bumpy ride button on the Ferrari, it does make a difference i find in taking the edge of the usually rubbish surface here and it is daft it isn't the standard setting with the button to firm up the ride like in most other cars but ride wise the 12c has a very clear advantage. The hydraulic suspension in the 12c can give one a slightly odd sense of 'float' though especially in normal mode. all in the 12c is a superb road car i think (there is a reason why i still have mine after 3.5 years and 20+k miles after all!!) but i can see why quite a lot more people have tended to prefer the 458 for various reasons.
You sound like you've had a lot of experience in both cars?Bumpy ride button on the Ferrari, it does make a difference i find in taking the edge of the usually rubbish surface here and it is daft it isn't the standard setting with the button to firm up the ride like in most other cars but ride wise the 12c has a very clear advantage. The hydraulic suspension in the 12c can give one a slightly odd sense of 'float' though especially in normal mode. all in the 12c is a superb road car i think (there is a reason why i still have mine after 3.5 years and 20+k miles after all!!) but i can see why quite a lot more people have tended to prefer the 458 for various reasons.
Any idea what the shift speed of the 12C is compared the 458. Still watching videos and there seems to be much of a delay between the "click" and the shift. Check these videos out, I have them starting at the right points.
https://youtu.be/LgMJOPggB6Q?t=61
vs
https://youtu.be/rRWV2OfSq8U?t=35
https://youtu.be/LgMJOPggB6Q?t=61
vs
https://youtu.be/rRWV2OfSq8U?t=35
breadvan said:
Forgive me if I'm stating the bleeding obvious, but the 12C does have a note-worthy slow gear-change when cruising (for comfort, etc) but it becomes lightning fast when you drive as Ron intended, irrespective of which setting you have the power-train in.
Does the powertrain dial affect the traction control or is that gearchange/throttle only?
I went for a longer test drive - Precog seems to fix the "slow" gear change I was talking about, so it seems like the 458 has the precog equivalent constantly engaged!?
One think I noticed is the power is very progressive - by that I mean not much power lower down the revs and then suddenly starts to boost you. It wasn't like that in my V12V and the ferrari also felt more linear. Is that a feature of turbo?
One think I noticed is the power is very progressive - by that I mean not much power lower down the revs and then suddenly starts to boost you. It wasn't like that in my V12V and the ferrari also felt more linear. Is that a feature of turbo?
Wozza said:
I knew I was going to be in the position to buy my first supercar this year. My V8 Vantage had been enjoyable but business has been good and at last I am in the position I'd always dreamt of!
I've spent lots of time in Car Clubs over the last few year as I love trying different cars and so I joined Auto Vivendi so I could test drive all of the cars on my short list properly. ie by doing 300 miles in each of them, on my own, without sales people around. I couldn't possibly consider spending that amount of money on one without a proper test. I find you learn so much about a car once you are over the initial excitement of the first 50 miles.
I expected to want to buy a 458, so the order was to be to try the 12C first, then a Huracan and save the 458 for last and for glory. Things didn't quite work out as expected though.
12C first. An early coupe with the crashing iris, heavy paddles, no sports exhaust, etc. The one that the press says is too Ron-like and had been rushed out into production and is so forgettable compared to a 458. WOW. It was bloody brilliant! The driving position, the visibility, the speed, the steering and of course the incredible ride. Had a couple of unforgettable drives in it and was shocked at how much I enjoyed the car over a weekend. Wow how good is the 458 going to be if it blows the 12C away!
Huracan next. After 15 miles (or a normal test drive?) I was smitten. This must be the one. The looks. The drama. The awesome dashboard. Everyone taking photos and smiling. It makes you feel like a rock god! Took it out for a proper drive late that night. Hmmmm. Something wasn't quite right. (It didn't have the Dynamic Steering by the way). It was all a bit too...easy. Any junction / roundabout - plant your foot, a few gear changes and you're in license losing speeds without really doing anything? It was too easy. It hooked up and WENT VERY FAST. Around corners, it felt so planted that you just guided it carefully at VERY HIGH speeds. it was TOO easy to go TOO fast. Hmmmmm. The 12C felt emotional and the Huracan felt sterile in the way it drove. Even more confusing!
So finally the 458. The crown is waiting to be claimed. Every review I have ever devoured said just says how incredible it is.
But it doesn't start very well. After half an hour in busy traffic on the M40 at 50 mph I'm struggling to modulate my speed. I'm either accelerating or decelerating. This is annoying. After an hour my ankle hurts as its in an awkward position and bent back slightly (I'm about 5' 10"). This car needs to be amazing when I finally get going because getting anywhere far is going to hurt. Finally I do get to the good roads and yes, the engine is a screamer and my enthusiasm is back!
But. This thing when the valves open. Its REALLY annoying me in 'normal' use. Its fine when youre on it and the car is screaming but you can't always be on it! In normal/brisk/quick driving, you accelerate a little bit, normal response and then the valves open and you get BLARE straight away. Stop it! Be loud when I'm on it yes but stop BLARING when I want to drive briskly. Its not a nice noise. Its just a loud BLARE>. I don't remember that in the reviews? I do remember Clarkson saying it gets a bit shouty but dismissed it as his nonsensical winding up of James May but that actually is spot on.
I get home that night dejected by the Ferrari - as you can probably see, I had the found whole experience ruined by lots of irritating quirks. I couldn't possibly consider doing any road trips in that car. I've dreamt and worked hard for 20 years to be at this point - when I can commit to buying the Ferrari I had always assumed I would buy. Even when I hadn't particularly enjoyed the 430 I'd tried before I had still assumed I would want the 458.
So there was a very clear, and unexpected, winner for me. Skip forward a month or two and a 12C Spider is due to arrive in my garage in the next week or two. Cannot wait!
Very interesting - I'd been considering joining one of these clubs for a while but wrote it off as a waste of money and I thought you need to book the cars far in advance. Perhaps I should join?I've spent lots of time in Car Clubs over the last few year as I love trying different cars and so I joined Auto Vivendi so I could test drive all of the cars on my short list properly. ie by doing 300 miles in each of them, on my own, without sales people around. I couldn't possibly consider spending that amount of money on one without a proper test. I find you learn so much about a car once you are over the initial excitement of the first 50 miles.
I expected to want to buy a 458, so the order was to be to try the 12C first, then a Huracan and save the 458 for last and for glory. Things didn't quite work out as expected though.
12C first. An early coupe with the crashing iris, heavy paddles, no sports exhaust, etc. The one that the press says is too Ron-like and had been rushed out into production and is so forgettable compared to a 458. WOW. It was bloody brilliant! The driving position, the visibility, the speed, the steering and of course the incredible ride. Had a couple of unforgettable drives in it and was shocked at how much I enjoyed the car over a weekend. Wow how good is the 458 going to be if it blows the 12C away!
Huracan next. After 15 miles (or a normal test drive?) I was smitten. This must be the one. The looks. The drama. The awesome dashboard. Everyone taking photos and smiling. It makes you feel like a rock god! Took it out for a proper drive late that night. Hmmmm. Something wasn't quite right. (It didn't have the Dynamic Steering by the way). It was all a bit too...easy. Any junction / roundabout - plant your foot, a few gear changes and you're in license losing speeds without really doing anything? It was too easy. It hooked up and WENT VERY FAST. Around corners, it felt so planted that you just guided it carefully at VERY HIGH speeds. it was TOO easy to go TOO fast. Hmmmmm. The 12C felt emotional and the Huracan felt sterile in the way it drove. Even more confusing!
So finally the 458. The crown is waiting to be claimed. Every review I have ever devoured said just says how incredible it is.
But it doesn't start very well. After half an hour in busy traffic on the M40 at 50 mph I'm struggling to modulate my speed. I'm either accelerating or decelerating. This is annoying. After an hour my ankle hurts as its in an awkward position and bent back slightly (I'm about 5' 10"). This car needs to be amazing when I finally get going because getting anywhere far is going to hurt. Finally I do get to the good roads and yes, the engine is a screamer and my enthusiasm is back!
But. This thing when the valves open. Its REALLY annoying me in 'normal' use. Its fine when youre on it and the car is screaming but you can't always be on it! In normal/brisk/quick driving, you accelerate a little bit, normal response and then the valves open and you get BLARE straight away. Stop it! Be loud when I'm on it yes but stop BLARING when I want to drive briskly. Its not a nice noise. Its just a loud BLARE>. I don't remember that in the reviews? I do remember Clarkson saying it gets a bit shouty but dismissed it as his nonsensical winding up of James May but that actually is spot on.
I get home that night dejected by the Ferrari - as you can probably see, I had the found whole experience ruined by lots of irritating quirks. I couldn't possibly consider doing any road trips in that car. I've dreamt and worked hard for 20 years to be at this point - when I can commit to buying the Ferrari I had always assumed I would buy. Even when I hadn't particularly enjoyed the 430 I'd tried before I had still assumed I would want the 458.
So there was a very clear, and unexpected, winner for me. Skip forward a month or two and a 12C Spider is due to arrive in my garage in the next week or two. Cannot wait!
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