What,Can and Should Mclaren be Doing About Protecting Resale
Discussion
As the Mclaren Hatfield post turned into another depreciation disaster maybe it would be good to have a thread about how and what could be done and suggested to improve the situation.
As the constant depreciation talk obviously upsets many on here then this should be a way to look for positive solutions.
I'll start
All cars ordered to customer spec,one offs,should stop the panic selling of unsold stock cars at discounted prices further harming residuals
Don't build 100's of rubbish launch spec cars that just clog up the system and in the main are NOT what people want anyway when spending £250k, build desire and want in the market place
Get the list price right from the start (closer to the actual transaction prices) and address the ridiculous option prices then residuals wont seem quite so bad
Your go!!!
As the constant depreciation talk obviously upsets many on here then this should be a way to look for positive solutions.
I'll start
All cars ordered to customer spec,one offs,should stop the panic selling of unsold stock cars at discounted prices further harming residuals
Don't build 100's of rubbish launch spec cars that just clog up the system and in the main are NOT what people want anyway when spending £250k, build desire and want in the market place
Get the list price right from the start (closer to the actual transaction prices) and address the ridiculous option prices then residuals wont seem quite so bad
Your go!!!
I certainly agree with the above postings and the problems are pretty clear to see so the solution shouldn't be that hard to put into operation if you have the desire.
Dare I say it but as far as I am aware the the sales management of Mclaren has been run for some time by staff who have a previous career in volume manufacturer organisations and the outlook that goes with that segment.
Dare I say it but as far as I am aware the the sales management of Mclaren has been run for some time by staff who have a previous career in volume manufacturer organisations and the outlook that goes with that segment.
Engelberger said:
Nothing to add about depreciation. If you can afford one of these cars then you can afford the depreciation. Someone who cannot afford new can then benefit from your massive loss. I think they call that trickle down economics.
However, the reason for my post is that the reaction to one of these wonderful machines is that it is one of the few cars that turns heads even when being driven with some class and dignity.
Grabbed this pic in Brugge at the weekend. Just look at it. Cost is relative.
Not many brands can still do that. Plus, based on very limited experience of the Silverstone Classic McLaren owners aren't all weapons grade arses.
That does look truly impressive and purposeful However, the reason for my post is that the reaction to one of these wonderful machines is that it is one of the few cars that turns heads even when being driven with some class and dignity.
Grabbed this pic in Brugge at the weekend. Just look at it. Cost is relative.
Not many brands can still do that. Plus, based on very limited experience of the Silverstone Classic McLaren owners aren't all weapons grade arses.
GRD 8 said:
sjc said:
I’d also suggest they stand by their products. Give them a 5 year or longer warranty and show some faith in the quality of their own cars.
Doing that will take some of the guesswork and (perceived) leap in the dark out of buying 4/5 year old cars, gradually stabilising the values.Making more info available to the likes of Thorney as the cars get older will also help
I agree. Part of the problem, for potential customers of second hand cars, is being put off by the uncertainty of the cost of maintaining these vehicles as they get older. As there are very few independent repairers and lack of technical information available for potential repairers, then most vehicles will have to return to the dealers for repair. This is fine while the cars are under warrantee, but i think its making potential customers very nervous when it comes to vehicles outside warrrantee. A possible solution is to make the initial warrantee longer and the extended warrantee either less expensive or more comprehensive. I believe that as the cars get older then to keep prices up independent repairers are a must if independent retailers are to be convinced to sell these cars. Doing that will take some of the guesswork and (perceived) leap in the dark out of buying 4/5 year old cars, gradually stabilising the values.Making more info available to the likes of Thorney as the cars get older will also help
Rocketreid said:
Juno said:
As the Mclaren Hatfield post turned into another depreciation disaster maybe it would be good to have a thread about how and what could be done and suggested to improve the situation.
As the constant depreciation talk obviously upsets many on here then this should be a way to look for positive solutions.
I'll start
All cars ordered to customer spec,one offs,should stop the panic selling of unsold stock cars at discounted prices further harming residuals
Don't build 100's of rubbish launch spec cars that just clog up the system and in the main are NOT what people want anyway when spending £250k, build desire and want in the market place
Get the list price right from the start (closer to the actual transaction prices) and address the ridiculous option prices then residuals wont seem quite so bad
Your go!!!
As mentioned The McLaren Owners Club are attempting to influence the hierarchy to listen to grass roots owners and also potential new owners. They are having regular meetings with them now and this may have some effect.
Unfortunately the Bahrainian investors/owners still want profits and that is a dilemma for such a young car manufacturer to achieve both profits for shareholders and deliver a reliable, sustainable product. The main issue has been the demand for Macs around the world has been very strong and the unfortunate constant model changes which has had a negative effect on used car residuals.
McLaren will succeed and many wealthy individuals won’t care greatly about losses but many ordinary folks will. A positive is there will be a group of people who will be able to get into a McLaren who perhaps would not usually be able to
With regards to pricing I think retail prices are not far off when compared to the competition although the extras are rather ridiculous. My 570S with Track Pack was over £17,000 more with not a huge amount to show for it !!!
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, it’s a catch 22 when you are a newer and emerging brand!As the constant depreciation talk obviously upsets many on here then this should be a way to look for positive solutions.
I'll start
All cars ordered to customer spec,one offs,should stop the panic selling of unsold stock cars at discounted prices further harming residuals
Don't build 100's of rubbish launch spec cars that just clog up the system and in the main are NOT what people want anyway when spending £250k, build desire and want in the market place
Get the list price right from the start (closer to the actual transaction prices) and address the ridiculous option prices then residuals wont seem quite so bad
Your go!!!
As mentioned The McLaren Owners Club are attempting to influence the hierarchy to listen to grass roots owners and also potential new owners. They are having regular meetings with them now and this may have some effect.
Unfortunately the Bahrainian investors/owners still want profits and that is a dilemma for such a young car manufacturer to achieve both profits for shareholders and deliver a reliable, sustainable product. The main issue has been the demand for Macs around the world has been very strong and the unfortunate constant model changes which has had a negative effect on used car residuals.
McLaren will succeed and many wealthy individuals won’t care greatly about losses but many ordinary folks will. A positive is there will be a group of people who will be able to get into a McLaren who perhaps would not usually be able to
With regards to pricing I think retail prices are not far off when compared to the competition although the extras are rather ridiculous. My 570S with Track Pack was over £17,000 more with not a huge amount to show for it !!!
I get the bit that Mclaren will pick the low hanging fruit from the Rich List but IMO those types of buyer come and go and are not generally enthusiasts for the longer term,OK for now as cash cows.
Yes it is good for used car buyers and there are some great bargains to be had after the first owner has taken the hit. However I can’t see us Brits being prepared to take too many hits and that’s where it may stall, the UK market is still very important after all said.
Good news to hear the interaction between Mclaren and owners, let’s hope it bears some fruit.
justin220 said:
Car looks great but a pretty poor post IMO.
I'm sure you'd feel a lot better if your 720S hasn't cost you 50k depreciation. It's a good thread and we should be posting ideas how to avoid massive depreciation hits.
One for me is reduce the warranty costs. I don't understand how McLaren think £5k a year is acceptable. No wonder potential owners are put off.
The dealers should be supporting the used network. Buy in all the used stock and control the market. The used cars are clearly desirable as people are buying them. If McLaren dealers had all the stock they can dictate prices
They need to improve the perceived customer care. Personally I've had no issues but clearly others have. This rubs off onto potential owners and either reduces values or number of people willing to actually put their hand into their pockets. Any issues under warranty should be dealt with swiftly and efficiently. Like for like cars as replacements when work is being carried out
McLaren dont need to only match Ferrari etc, they need to be better
Your absolutely right about the crazy warranty costs,IMO these costs are saying either a. We have no confidence in our product or b. We are just going to rip your pants off, either way it’s not a good message.I'm sure you'd feel a lot better if your 720S hasn't cost you 50k depreciation. It's a good thread and we should be posting ideas how to avoid massive depreciation hits.
One for me is reduce the warranty costs. I don't understand how McLaren think £5k a year is acceptable. No wonder potential owners are put off.
The dealers should be supporting the used network. Buy in all the used stock and control the market. The used cars are clearly desirable as people are buying them. If McLaren dealers had all the stock they can dictate prices
They need to improve the perceived customer care. Personally I've had no issues but clearly others have. This rubs off onto potential owners and either reduces values or number of people willing to actually put their hand into their pockets. Any issues under warranty should be dealt with swiftly and efficiently. Like for like cars as replacements when work is being carried out
McLaren dont need to only match Ferrari etc, they need to be better
As an example there is a 570 that I’d buy right now at what I would say is a very reasonable price, I would probably only keep it for 10/12 months. The issue is at sale time I’d have NO chance of selling private and would be required to do an SOR and stump up for a warranty to sell it. That’s going to be circa 10k with vat excluding depreciation which even on this reasonably priced car will be another 5-10k. Sadly I just can’t bring myself to accept that 20k for a years motoring at this price point is acceptable.
If the warranty,service costs and ability to sell privately or back to the dealer existed then I’d be in like a burglar. I know for sure that currently the dealer network won’t even bid on these older higher mileage cars so half of your exit route is cut off before you enter the ownership arena.
In comparison I’ve always sold my cars privately including many Porsche,Ferrari,Lamborghini and the likes with no problem, that’s the confidence that I and assume others would look for to inspire confidence in Mclaren
It’s a shame but hopefully time will resolve the issues
AL001 said:
The first thing McLaren should do is subsidise the warranty costs so it is circa 50% cheaper than currently. This would help support the used market, which in turn feeds into the new market.
Perhaps they have left it too late as the hefty depreciation on new (and more than usual niggles) is well established in most buyers minds. That won't put off all but will deter many from buying new in future I expect.
When buying my pre-owned 570 recently, the Mac salesman did say there was talk of bringing in something new on the warranty front (without being specific).
In saying that, I can't recall if Lambo have even introduced an extended warranty yet and I should know as have a Perf! Italian logic, no need to worry on warranty pricing, there isn't one.
Isn’t the warranty on a new Lambo 4 years anyway ?sure it used to be.Perhaps they have left it too late as the hefty depreciation on new (and more than usual niggles) is well established in most buyers minds. That won't put off all but will deter many from buying new in future I expect.
When buying my pre-owned 570 recently, the Mac salesman did say there was talk of bringing in something new on the warranty front (without being specific).
In saying that, I can't recall if Lambo have even introduced an extended warranty yet and I should know as have a Perf! Italian logic, no need to worry on warranty pricing, there isn't one.
355spiderguy said:
I have been quoted a smidge under £8500 for a 4th year service and 24months of macwarranty when the time is due in October.
Normal service price at 4yrs is around £1350 so just over £3500 a yr for the warranty.
In jan a front strut had to be replaced due to signs of minor weeping...no warranty cost would be just over £3k.
Its was approx £270k 3.5 yrs ago....its an expensive car so for a near bulletproof warranty to cost £3500 a year i don't think its that bad...how much is a Ferrari warranty and how much is not covered by comparison?
With no warranty my Ferrari cost me the similar amount each year on bits and pieces.
Heck, my oldest lads M3 just needed pads, discs and 2 driveshafts...that cost around £1800....with lots of labour still to be added.
As a previous poster mentioned, if £3500 for a 5* warranty on a supercar seems expensive, maybe supercars are not for you.
With regards to depreciation, it appears as though there is almost a generation out there that have no idea this was the norm until recently and now normality is back in business and its a real shock to the system.
Best to get used to it...its not just a McLaren issue.
I think you will find if you come out from under your Umbrella Mclaren depreciation is Spectacular by any measurement Normal service price at 4yrs is around £1350 so just over £3500 a yr for the warranty.
In jan a front strut had to be replaced due to signs of minor weeping...no warranty cost would be just over £3k.
Its was approx £270k 3.5 yrs ago....its an expensive car so for a near bulletproof warranty to cost £3500 a year i don't think its that bad...how much is a Ferrari warranty and how much is not covered by comparison?
With no warranty my Ferrari cost me the similar amount each year on bits and pieces.
Heck, my oldest lads M3 just needed pads, discs and 2 driveshafts...that cost around £1800....with lots of labour still to be added.
As a previous poster mentioned, if £3500 for a 5* warranty on a supercar seems expensive, maybe supercars are not for you.
With regards to depreciation, it appears as though there is almost a generation out there that have no idea this was the norm until recently and now normality is back in business and its a real shock to the system.
Best to get used to it...its not just a McLaren issue.
unless of course you are the recipient of someone else’s hit! But don’t worry you will get used to it!IMI A said:
Here's cheapest good low miles 991 turbo s in UK.
http://www.nineexcellence.com/porsche-sales/sales-...
To save you doing the maths its held circa 67% of its original retail price 5-6 years on which is incredible. Mcl have some way to go to have their ordinary non LT vehicles doing that well. I'm hearing you can buy a virtually brand new 720s for £180k albeit not to your own spec. Thats not far off £100k off list on day 1!
And therein lies the crux of the problem,it may not be your spec but that shouldn't make it a 100k less than a specked car,its panic selling of stock cars to clear the decks. If the stock wasn't sitting there in the first place then the issue would not exist. Make all cars to customer order which would help stabilize things from day one.http://www.nineexcellence.com/porsche-sales/sales-...
To save you doing the maths its held circa 67% of its original retail price 5-6 years on which is incredible. Mcl have some way to go to have their ordinary non LT vehicles doing that well. I'm hearing you can buy a virtually brand new 720s for £180k albeit not to your own spec. Thats not far off £100k off list on day 1!
How would someone feel if they paid 280k to find out someone else paid 180k?
MDL111 said:
cypriot said:
IMI A said:
Here's cheapest good low miles 991 turbo s in UK.
http://www.nineexcellence.com/porsche-sales/sales-...
To save you doing the maths its held circa 67% of its original retail price 5-6 years on which is incredible. Mcl have some way to go to have their ordinary non LT vehicles doing that well. I'm hearing you can buy a virtually brand new 720s for £180k albeit not to your own spec. Thats not far off £100k off list on day 1!
Rather disingenuous post. You are quoting list price WITH NO OPTIONS for the turbo. So, using your method, a decently specced and relatively low milage 650s, 5 years old is £118k, which is 62% of its retail price. So, not too shabby, right?http://www.nineexcellence.com/porsche-sales/sales-...
To save you doing the maths its held circa 67% of its original retail price 5-6 years on which is incredible. Mcl have some way to go to have their ordinary non LT vehicles doing that well. I'm hearing you can buy a virtually brand new 720s for £180k albeit not to your own spec. Thats not far off £100k off list on day 1!
RobDown said:
I would imagine that one problem with the SUV idea for McLaren is that there cars are designed around a CF tub. Presumably an SUV would require them to start again from scratch? Ie heavy investment?
This is a good thread by the way and I hope McLaren read it and take onboard some of the suggestions
I can’t see them wanting to cut production, albeit limiting launch edition models might be a good idea.
So the answer then seems to be to find a way of increasing demand. I can only speak from my perspective here; but I’m probably McLarens prime target market 40-something already buying a competitors product. What puts me off is the warranty cost and (too many) horror stories from people I know. So if they could introduce longer warranties, support the independent network and generally reduce the risk of a poor ownership experience it would go some way to convincing me to buy one rather than feeling like it’s a gamble ; will I get a good one or a lemon?
But as I said before, kudos to the OP for the thread (we could do with one for every manufacturer) and I hope it leads to a brighter McFuture
Thanks RobThis is a good thread by the way and I hope McLaren read it and take onboard some of the suggestions
I can’t see them wanting to cut production, albeit limiting launch edition models might be a good idea.
So the answer then seems to be to find a way of increasing demand. I can only speak from my perspective here; but I’m probably McLarens prime target market 40-something already buying a competitors product. What puts me off is the warranty cost and (too many) horror stories from people I know. So if they could introduce longer warranties, support the independent network and generally reduce the risk of a poor ownership experience it would go some way to convincing me to buy one rather than feeling like it’s a gamble ; will I get a good one or a lemon?
But as I said before, kudos to the OP for the thread (we could do with one for every manufacturer) and I hope it leads to a brighter McFuture
Its good to see people being honest and objective.
I personally know Mclarens UK sales manager and could send him a link to this ?
I would like to scratch the itch but but just too many uncertainties for me right now!
Edited by Juno on Sunday 12th May 23:21
davek_964 said:
355spiderguy said:
and lets be realistic..if you can afford to spunk 6 figures on a car, you can afford the costs that go with it.
That's often quoted, but I think for many people - including me - it's simply not true.I can afford to spunk 6 figures on a car - with the understanding that I will get some of it back when it comes to sell. That does not mean that I have unlimited monthly outgoings - and ~£5K warranty + servicing + other running costs (tax, insurance etc) simply add up to too much.
And as I've already said - my belief is that I can afford the running costs that come with a £100k version of the competition. My perception is that I can't afford the running costs of a £100k McLaren.
Edited by davek_964 on Tuesday 14th May 13:49
footsoldier said:
Rocketreid said:
It isn’t just McLaren though who are finding it difficult to maintain residuals in the current climate .
Yesterday a friend went into a well known Porsche dealership to enquire about selling them back his GT3 RS which he had purchased from them at the end of 2018.
Car had only done 1,700 miles since he purchased , they offered him almost £50,000 less .
Porsche are dropping just as much but it is being kept as a better secret !!!!
He must have paid too much in "overs" then. Porsche dealers are a whole other topic...Yesterday a friend went into a well known Porsche dealership to enquire about selling them back his GT3 RS which he had purchased from them at the end of 2018.
Car had only done 1,700 miles since he purchased , they offered him almost £50,000 less .
Porsche are dropping just as much but it is being kept as a better secret !!!!
Laughable Sorry
Unless he was not the first owner and paid stupid overs in the first place,circa £250k,still making the car £200k today which is still 35k over list
Edited by Juno on Tuesday 14th May 15:38
The Surveyor said:
Juno said:
Fully specked GT3RS 2018 tops at £165k new,your telling me his dealer was offering £115k costing him £50k in depreciation when they are clearly selling in the market right now at £200k plus
Laughable Sorry
Unless he was not the first owner and paid stupid overs in the first place,circa £250k,still making the car £200k today which is still 35k over list
Nobody actually paid list for a GT3 RS though, nobody could just walk into a Porsche dealership and buy a brand new list price GT3 RS without having a long history of being financially buggered from buying and selling back other Porsches over years to climb up the ladder of dealer love. You try getting a new GT Porsche from a dealership cold, it simply won't happen.Laughable Sorry
Unless he was not the first owner and paid stupid overs in the first place,circa £250k,still making the car £200k today which is still 35k over list
Or... buy used and paying a ridiculous amount over list which is the position I has assumed this guy was in. Probably paid £250k for used Porsche that was listed at £165k and now being offered £200k to take it back would be my assumption. That's a £50k loss on an investment gamble rather than £50k depreciation, very different.
McLaren could learn a lot from Porsche on how to play with their customers, but I'm really glad they don't
It’s not easy to buy one for sure but also not impossible, I’ve just bought a new RS at list for July build and previously only bought GT cars from my dealer, it’s as much to do with your passion about the brand and the dealer!
Edited by Juno on Wednesday 15th May 10:55
Ferruccio said:
Juno said:
davek_964 said:
isaldiri said:
davek_964 said:
By McLaren?
Yes. Mclaren dealership.The Surveyor said:
Juno said:
……..it’s as much to do with your passion about the brand and the dealer!
I'm not sure how that works, but good news on the incoming RS.You need to be careful dispelling that myth though, once people think anybody can get a new GT Porsche the investors will leave the Porsche market and go on to other marques.
I just meant you don’t have to buy 20 cars to get one. I believe there are less than 100 RS WP cars coming though so fair to say pretty scarce!
s2000db said:
Juno said:
The Surveyor said:
Juno said:
……..it’s as much to do with your passion about the brand and the dealer!
I'm not sure how that works, but good news on the incoming RS.You need to be careful dispelling that myth though, once people think anybody can get a new GT Porsche the investors will leave the Porsche market and go on to other marques.
I just meant you don’t have to buy 20 cars to get one. I believe there are less than 100 RS WP cars coming though so fair to say pretty scarce!
Btw, you know the 991.2GT3 is the most common variant!
fridaypassion said:
Just seen a 991.1 gt3 clubsport pop up on my facebook 106k. That would have been 136 last year. .1 GT3RS have dropped 100k in the last 2 years. Some people have taken an absolute bath with these "investor" GT products.
A 991.1 GT3 ClubSport was £101k list and about £116k optioned so at £106k I have no idea where you are coming from LolGassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff