A 12c flying in face of reason?

[rootsandculture]

Last week I was on the precipice of 981 GT4 ownership recently when the contrarian voice inside me, said: ‘don’t buy the universally lauded best sports car on the market that will cost you little to run for a couple of years and will be easy to sell on, live with, track and maintain with a reliable dealer network. Buy a 12c which is likely to be the opposite of all of those things’.

Then spoke with a McLaren dealer who pointed out that I’d be better off going the PCP route on a more recent car than finance in a 12c without a GFV. He also said that I’d probably think something like an 600 LT was a better drive for a weekend toy.

But, I still want a 12c.

Absolutely no sensible reason why. I just think there’s something innately cool about the very subtle styling, elegant proportion and effortless ride that a 12c apparently has. I’m not really a supercar person, quite the opposite, but in my view a 12c at 75k is getting into the ‘interesting choice’ zone and away from ‘flash so and so’ territory. Different strokes for different folks.

So, if anyone could shine a light on a few buying related questions for me I’d be grateful...

- buy now or wait? The dealer I spoke to was fairly open about values being pushed down by depreciation in newer models. Anyone think there’s much to be gained by giving it 6 months?

- are the low mileage cars worth the premium? I’d have thought it would be safer to get something that have a few miles on it, say 25k, than a 10 year old car that’s barely moved. Is this nonsense?

- how far can I expect to push a McLaren dealer on price? I was thinking to ask for 2 year rather than 1 warranty. Imagine it’s a buyers market for these given the deals they’re offering in newer models.

- any specification or options that you’d recommended searching out?

[rootsandculture]

davek_964 said:

I ignored 12Cs when I was looking because I didn't want the 'old style' front end. But I find myself looking at them now and wondering if I should have bought one - they look stunning.

Yep, I thought the same until recently. Funny how a car’s looks can flip on you like that isn’t it.

[rootsandculture]

AndM said:

Given they are nearly 5k per annum that might be a stretch.

Presumably they don’t cost the dealer 5k though? Struck me as the natural opportunity that would suit both sides.

Thanks for your reply.

[rootsandculture]

JPCGT said:

I think there is a lot to be said for following the advice of the McLaren salesman of going down the PCP route on a more recent car with a GFV. I think this is coming by far the best method of getting both ‘in’ and ‘out’ of a McLaren.

Yep I can see that. The balloon on a 12c, 36 months, 6k is 48k. Are you thinking that there’s significant risk in that being too high or that they’re just likely to be difficult to sell?

[rootsandculture]

CTE said:

I`ve had mine for nearly 5 years now and whilst I get it serviced at Birmingham McLaren, I have also used Thorney`s for upgrades and a couple of jobs that needed doing and they were quite reasonable. I do not have a warranty and touch wood, so far am quid's in, but maybe longer term a Thorney warranty might be the way to go?

As has already been said the cars are way more special in all respects than most Porkers and a GT4 would not see which way a 12c went, even on track...and with the right electronic settings made to the suspension, engine etc, they can be very engaging. The later cars are improved, but its not night and day and I too prefer the styling of the 12c and longer term they will suffer far less depreciation than a newer car...and of course if people start buying them the residuals will go up!

I`d get a later car, ideally 2013/4 as they were better put together, but my 2012 car is fine and Mc Birmingham always say it is one of the best they see so I guess it can vary from car to car a bit.

As above get the car checked out before buying, warm it up/down properly before giving it the beans, and enjoy...and why wait?!!

Thanks

Do you reckon the saving on warranty at thorney and saving at purchase price in buying not through McLaren ultimately works out cheaper than buying approved, extending that warranty and then selling with full McLaren history?

I’m just thinking that given as the majority of cars on the used market have full McLaren history anyway would it not make sense to stay within it and get better value come sale time?

[rootsandculture]

Bispal said:

Buy with a warranty and expect some niggles but nothing serious. They are all fixed under warranty, in fact the £3,500 warranty (at the time) is all my 12C cost me to run apart from one £1,000 service and a set of tyres, £880. Almost all the other cars I have owned have ended up costing more than the McWarranty per year in repairs so you need to put that into perspective.

Thanks Bispal for the advice.

Out of interest, did the GT4 actually cost more on repairs than the 3.5k the McLaren or are we talking more generally and mainly older cars?

981 spyder I’ve never seen in the flesh, but had been thinking they are nice balance between that feels special and rare to own but can slide under the radar relatively well. Does sound like you’ve had a great run of cars.

I only ruled out an exige on the basis that it was actually going to cost me more to own for a few years than a GT4, but absolutely fantastic machine and significant appeal in the lack of badge snobbery involved in owning a lotus / nicer sales reps to deal with.

On that note, how often did members of the public feel the need to mouth w**ker at you / refuse to let you in at junctions in the 12c compared with the GT4?

[rootsandculture]

Bispal said:

TBH the most attention I ever got with a car I owned was a 1985 BMW M635CSi, people went nuts over it. But it cost a fortune to keep on the road and broke every time I used it.

I can believe that about an M635csi, I daily drive a 944 turbo and seems anything anything angular / box archy seems to chime with people in the right way at the moment. Expect a Ferrari 400i would be the top of that very particular tree.

Out of interest was the M6 worth the money over a 635 csi for the engine? Always felt they were a bit under appreciated given the M1 motor relationship but never driven one. The equivalent with a Porsche badge would have a zero on the end these days.

[rootsandculture]

Bispal said:

I had a standard 635CSi too, this was within past 5 years so not 'back in the day'. Although I had lots of experience as a young passenger in both. My 635 was an auto and wasn't that quick. The M635 was quite fast and sounded amazing. However both cars had diabolical steering.

As far as I know they never raced the M635 which had a 24 valve head, they always used the standard 12 valve car but with a manual box. As is the case with period 4 valve cars they are a bit 'toppy' and the 2 valve cars have more low end grunt. I expect a well set up 12 valve car with a manual box and LSD might be the pick of the bunch if properly set up. In retrospect my M635 was probably a bit of a dog and the other car I considered at the time was a 944 S2 or turbo, which I still have a yearning for.... The 80's shark nose BMW's look amazing BUT the steering on all of them is truly appalling, I won't own another. I was almost tempted by an E12 M535i last year but the reliability & driving numbness of all my previous BMW's put me off.

An immaculate E28 M5 or even E34 M5 would be my pick now over the E24 M635. Even the door seals drove me mad, you will never get the door glass to seal properly! In fact the point of classics is the shape now so I would take an E28 535i or E30 325i over an M car. I will never ever buy any M car ever again...

Your car history is class from the sounds of it.

Actually quite excited to know now that the people you see driving around in, say, McLarens are also the people looking for door seals on a m635i on ebay.

At the risk of derailing the thread further, I thought that the m635i had essentially a tweaked version of the 24v engine they used in the M1. And I always thought that was quite cool given as they’re not crazy crazy money.

I’m into the e28’s but recently felt they're strong money when you put it up against the hotter end of the transaxle Porsche’s.

If you ever want to scratch the 944 turbo itch, let me know and you might be helping me on the way to 12c ownership!

[rootsandculture]

cgt2 said:

I had an E39 M5 in the early 2000's, that was a great car, so underrated. Rock solid build quality too.

To bring things full circle to McLaren there was a famous BMW advert for the E36 M3 Evo parked next to a McLaren F1 and it was generally accepted at the time the McLaren V12 was two E36 Evo engines stuck together (not sure of the veracity of this but the BMW advert certainly played that link up).

Ah yes. There’s a collecting cars podcast In which they touch on this. From memory they tested the v12 in an e39 m5, which if it l exists now is a bloody cool car.

Infact someone with more disposable income than me should really be putting the current McLaren V8 into an old m5 in homage.

Here’s a link, it’s episode 2

https://collectingcars.com/podcasts/

[rootsandculture]

@cgt2