Tesla Ups and Downs
Discussion
Hi Everyone
My father and I have now had our Teslas for nearly 2 years now and I thought i would share the things we have enjoyed and disliked about our cars and general EV experience.
I should probably say that we have absolutely no green agenda we only bought these cars for what they offered us.
Positives
We love the way that they look and that they are quite different.
Very fast the instant torque really does make them point to point pretty hard to beat. Although they are lacking a bit of character and interaction for a large 4 door saloon the silent effortless speed quite suits the whole feel of the car. If you are looking to replace your AMG/M5/RS6 I would look elsewhere though.
Practicality really can't fault I am 26 with a wife and 1 year old son managed to take everything we needed for Xmas down to Surrey from Norfolk without having to put the seats down and bring back even more no trouble at all the double boots and space under the rear boot means it has more space than I know what to do with.
On long journeys this is the best car I have ever driven in terms of effortless comfort. The seats are great it is quite and with autopilot you really can relax. You do still have to pay attention as every now and then the autopilot will do something stupid and scare you, however this does seem to have improved with the updates.
Superchargers!!! The main reason we convinced ourselves to buy these cars was the supercharger network as both my father and I enjoy going long distances for weekend trips or holidays in Europe. As far as being able to go everywhere they are great and best of all free. The charging times are pretty fast at around 40 mins which most of the time is fine. They are not perfect but I will put that in Negatives.
The interior design is not to everyones liking but we like it because it is different.
As company cars they are a financial no brainer it costs me £15 a month personally to own my 70D.
Negatives
I hope this section isn't to aggressive but parts of ownership have annoyed both of us.
First of all we have been disappointed with the range. Mostly in that my father bought a 90D as the range was supposed to be 350 miles which would have worked very well. He paid 30K more than mine for his, there is a lot more options on his as well as he is my boss. So you can imagine he was slightly annoyed when he basically gets the same 200 mile range that I do. He felt like he got lied to a bit. He wasn't expecting to get the full 350 but was expecting at least in the 280 range or at the very least a lot more than the 70D that I have. We have asked on forums if anyone gets nearer the range and have had answers that some get a little bit over 250. But when we asked further there advice was to drive everywhere at 50mph. We refuse to do that as we didn't spend 65k on mine and over 90k on my fathers to have very fast cars to go everywhere at 50mph that would be big step backwards.
Something else that has annoyed a lot is that where we use the supercharger network a lot on our travels we have now found that we are limited to 90kw instead of the 120kw we should get when charging to protect our batteries this is something Tesla failed to mention when telling us how amazing the supercharging network was and we did tell them we intended to use these to go all over Europe. Something similar has happened with friends who use full power a lot from standstill they have now found the car limiting how much power they can use to accelerate to protect the battery. To us this is like Ferrari telling you they have dropped your rev limiter to 5000rpm because you have been using the performance to much.
The build quality is unfortunately not up to the standard we would expect for this money its not massive but you notice little things after a while like the rear wheel arch lining doesn't fit the wheel arch properly and the panel gaps on our cars are all over the place. Plus various rattles and trim coming away. How can Kia get this stuff right but Tesla can't?
Tesla customer service appears to range from sublime to appalling seemingly for no reason. I had a fault on my 70D battery that meant my car had to go in to be repaired they had my car for 8 weeks and thanks to my app I could see it sat outside for 7 of them. When they did look at the car they decided the battery had to be sent away to be fixed and they put a random battery they had around in my temporarily well it s coming up for around 14 months still have temporary battery in my car. My battery is now back in the UK was meant to be being sent to Milton Keynes so can be fitted back to my car have been waiting for a call back to arrange this for 5 weeks. This stuff though I can see being fixed as Tesla grow as a company and maybe I expect to much from a new company. What does everyone think am I being a bit to harsh?
Another one that will be fixed in time but can be frustrating is that although the superchargers are amazing we find you rarely take the route you want to a destination plus you can find yourself going 30 mins out of your way to charge for 40mins to go back 30 mins to get back on route meaning you can add 2 hours to your journey very easily. This stuff will be fixed as more chargers are put in simple as that and hats off to Tesla they are doing it slowly.
I'm not sure how this will be resolved but the strange thing with Tesla ownership is that you can't seem to do a journey any faster. By this I mean in a ICE car if you want to get there faster you go faster and you just accept your mpg goes down. With a Tesla I find that if I go faster I charge more or you go slower and charge less whatever you do though you seem to get there in the same time. Which can be infuriating if you have a meeting and you hit traffic because there is no way to gain that time back, so this has led to being late to some things that have been a little embarrassing and I have had to basically apologies for traffic/Tesla.
Conclusion
This post may seem like we hate our cars we really don't there are just some aspects that don't live up to expectation for us maybe we expected to much of the technology to soon. If we didn't do the mileages that we do I would completely recommend a Tesla to anybody as a daily driver for its comfort and ease to drive quickly and efficiently as well as being a great family car. But for us there are to many inconveniences and restrictions that mean in a year or so we will probably move back to petrol cars assuming EV haven't moved forward a huge amount, which is completely possible and we would definitely be willing to give EVs another go when they have moved on a bit.
If anyone has any suggestions or answers about dealing with some of the issues or has had a different experience please share
My father and I have now had our Teslas for nearly 2 years now and I thought i would share the things we have enjoyed and disliked about our cars and general EV experience.
I should probably say that we have absolutely no green agenda we only bought these cars for what they offered us.
Positives
We love the way that they look and that they are quite different.
Very fast the instant torque really does make them point to point pretty hard to beat. Although they are lacking a bit of character and interaction for a large 4 door saloon the silent effortless speed quite suits the whole feel of the car. If you are looking to replace your AMG/M5/RS6 I would look elsewhere though.
Practicality really can't fault I am 26 with a wife and 1 year old son managed to take everything we needed for Xmas down to Surrey from Norfolk without having to put the seats down and bring back even more no trouble at all the double boots and space under the rear boot means it has more space than I know what to do with.
On long journeys this is the best car I have ever driven in terms of effortless comfort. The seats are great it is quite and with autopilot you really can relax. You do still have to pay attention as every now and then the autopilot will do something stupid and scare you, however this does seem to have improved with the updates.
Superchargers!!! The main reason we convinced ourselves to buy these cars was the supercharger network as both my father and I enjoy going long distances for weekend trips or holidays in Europe. As far as being able to go everywhere they are great and best of all free. The charging times are pretty fast at around 40 mins which most of the time is fine. They are not perfect but I will put that in Negatives.
The interior design is not to everyones liking but we like it because it is different.
As company cars they are a financial no brainer it costs me £15 a month personally to own my 70D.
Negatives
I hope this section isn't to aggressive but parts of ownership have annoyed both of us.
First of all we have been disappointed with the range. Mostly in that my father bought a 90D as the range was supposed to be 350 miles which would have worked very well. He paid 30K more than mine for his, there is a lot more options on his as well as he is my boss. So you can imagine he was slightly annoyed when he basically gets the same 200 mile range that I do. He felt like he got lied to a bit. He wasn't expecting to get the full 350 but was expecting at least in the 280 range or at the very least a lot more than the 70D that I have. We have asked on forums if anyone gets nearer the range and have had answers that some get a little bit over 250. But when we asked further there advice was to drive everywhere at 50mph. We refuse to do that as we didn't spend 65k on mine and over 90k on my fathers to have very fast cars to go everywhere at 50mph that would be big step backwards.
Something else that has annoyed a lot is that where we use the supercharger network a lot on our travels we have now found that we are limited to 90kw instead of the 120kw we should get when charging to protect our batteries this is something Tesla failed to mention when telling us how amazing the supercharging network was and we did tell them we intended to use these to go all over Europe. Something similar has happened with friends who use full power a lot from standstill they have now found the car limiting how much power they can use to accelerate to protect the battery. To us this is like Ferrari telling you they have dropped your rev limiter to 5000rpm because you have been using the performance to much.
The build quality is unfortunately not up to the standard we would expect for this money its not massive but you notice little things after a while like the rear wheel arch lining doesn't fit the wheel arch properly and the panel gaps on our cars are all over the place. Plus various rattles and trim coming away. How can Kia get this stuff right but Tesla can't?
Tesla customer service appears to range from sublime to appalling seemingly for no reason. I had a fault on my 70D battery that meant my car had to go in to be repaired they had my car for 8 weeks and thanks to my app I could see it sat outside for 7 of them. When they did look at the car they decided the battery had to be sent away to be fixed and they put a random battery they had around in my temporarily well it s coming up for around 14 months still have temporary battery in my car. My battery is now back in the UK was meant to be being sent to Milton Keynes so can be fitted back to my car have been waiting for a call back to arrange this for 5 weeks. This stuff though I can see being fixed as Tesla grow as a company and maybe I expect to much from a new company. What does everyone think am I being a bit to harsh?
Another one that will be fixed in time but can be frustrating is that although the superchargers are amazing we find you rarely take the route you want to a destination plus you can find yourself going 30 mins out of your way to charge for 40mins to go back 30 mins to get back on route meaning you can add 2 hours to your journey very easily. This stuff will be fixed as more chargers are put in simple as that and hats off to Tesla they are doing it slowly.
I'm not sure how this will be resolved but the strange thing with Tesla ownership is that you can't seem to do a journey any faster. By this I mean in a ICE car if you want to get there faster you go faster and you just accept your mpg goes down. With a Tesla I find that if I go faster I charge more or you go slower and charge less whatever you do though you seem to get there in the same time. Which can be infuriating if you have a meeting and you hit traffic because there is no way to gain that time back, so this has led to being late to some things that have been a little embarrassing and I have had to basically apologies for traffic/Tesla.
Conclusion
This post may seem like we hate our cars we really don't there are just some aspects that don't live up to expectation for us maybe we expected to much of the technology to soon. If we didn't do the mileages that we do I would completely recommend a Tesla to anybody as a daily driver for its comfort and ease to drive quickly and efficiently as well as being a great family car. But for us there are to many inconveniences and restrictions that mean in a year or so we will probably move back to petrol cars assuming EV haven't moved forward a huge amount, which is completely possible and we would definitely be willing to give EVs another go when they have moved on a bit.
If anyone has any suggestions or answers about dealing with some of the issues or has had a different experience please share
Thank god it's not just us!!! I was starting to wonder if I was the only one in the world who didn't think the Model S is the perfect car.
I agree about the downloads being more annoying than helpful. I do worry that Tesla cars will become more like my laptop than my car which would not be a good thing as I find most of the stuff my computers are meant to do they don't properly.
I do think the biggest problem for Tesla from my point of view is that when I spend this kind of money I expect a certain type of product and at the moment they just aren't quite there especially when you look at them in the cold light of day next to there competition and forget about it being an electric car.
I don't think they are a million miles away if they could get a real 300+ miles and sort there quality control out they would be on to a winner.
I agree about the downloads being more annoying than helpful. I do worry that Tesla cars will become more like my laptop than my car which would not be a good thing as I find most of the stuff my computers are meant to do they don't properly.
I do think the biggest problem for Tesla from my point of view is that when I spend this kind of money I expect a certain type of product and at the moment they just aren't quite there especially when you look at them in the cold light of day next to there competition and forget about it being an electric car.
I don't think they are a million miles away if they could get a real 300+ miles and sort there quality control out they would be on to a winner.
gangzoom said:
Our 3 months old X is now written off thanks to a Seat driver who didn't understand how junctions work....
Am now in the process of getting a settlement sorted, third party has admitted liability (thanks to the dash cam).
The problem is despite all the issues associated with Tesla as a company I simply cannot see what other choice there is??
I've driven EVs for the last 2.5 years now, and range has never been an issue for us with our usage profile. There is no way I can go back to a petrol car, the inconvenience of petrol stations, the jerkiness of the drivetrain, having to press so many buttons to even start the thing. No way, you have to pay me to even think about it, and even than I'll just take the money and put it towards an EV.
I mentioned to my wife the possibility of pocketing the cash settlement and running around in a Leaf again till the iPace is out..... She's not having it, it's another X she wants and that's the end of it!!!
Come 2020 I think the choice for EVs will be much greater, but what ever you think of Tesla as a company you cannot deny they have pushed EV adoption forwards in a manner no one else could have.
Hopefully we'll be back in our own X soon... Given all the other problems facing the world I personally cannot complain that much about our Tesla ownership experience so far.
I totally agree Tesla have moved the game on hugely and have forced all the other manufacturers to get on with there development. I have no doubt in 5-10 years I will probably have another EV for instance both my father and I have agreed if the Porsche E-Mission comes out like the concept and has the performance, range and charging that they are claiming we will almost certainly buy 2.Am now in the process of getting a settlement sorted, third party has admitted liability (thanks to the dash cam).
The problem is despite all the issues associated with Tesla as a company I simply cannot see what other choice there is??
I've driven EVs for the last 2.5 years now, and range has never been an issue for us with our usage profile. There is no way I can go back to a petrol car, the inconvenience of petrol stations, the jerkiness of the drivetrain, having to press so many buttons to even start the thing. No way, you have to pay me to even think about it, and even than I'll just take the money and put it towards an EV.
I mentioned to my wife the possibility of pocketing the cash settlement and running around in a Leaf again till the iPace is out..... She's not having it, it's another X she wants and that's the end of it!!!
Come 2020 I think the choice for EVs will be much greater, but what ever you think of Tesla as a company you cannot deny they have pushed EV adoption forwards in a manner no one else could have.
Hopefully we'll be back in our own X soon... Given all the other problems facing the world I personally cannot complain that much about our Tesla ownership experience so far.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 5th July 10:41
You are absolutely right if EVs are your thing Tesla are in a class of there own.
I think for the time being as you say your usage profile either fits or it doesn't at the moment ours doesn't although I'm in the minority.
For instance my father has less problems than myself because he is retired and lucky for him very rarely is in the situation where he has to get somewhere by certain times. He usually tries to stop at chargers where he knows he can relax and have a good meal. I unfortunately am quite a lot busier and find the experience to add extra stress in some situations.
For now what I think will keep Tesla well and truly ahead is the supercharger network.
As it stands today even if the other big boys such as Audi brought out a full EV right now it would be very limited for any kind of long journeys as there is no network to support it. There is Ecotricity and a few people like that but in my experience you never know if they will be working or how fast so you can get stuck.
That is the biggest barrier for the others at the moment it will take time and money to build a network. I understand that some of the companies like Ford Audi BMW Merc etc have signed an agreement to share one big network but until that starts properly I can't see anyone getting close in terms of real world usability. Even if the product it 100 times better built and developed it won't be successful until there is the network.
Although one thing I don't look forward to is the day when EVs are widespread and there aren't enough chargers in a carpark. I can see there being a lot of confrontations.
As it stands today even if the other big boys such as Audi brought out a full EV right now it would be very limited for any kind of long journeys as there is no network to support it. There is Ecotricity and a few people like that but in my experience you never know if they will be working or how fast so you can get stuck.
That is the biggest barrier for the others at the moment it will take time and money to build a network. I understand that some of the companies like Ford Audi BMW Merc etc have signed an agreement to share one big network but until that starts properly I can't see anyone getting close in terms of real world usability. Even if the product it 100 times better built and developed it won't be successful until there is the network.
Although one thing I don't look forward to is the day when EVs are widespread and there aren't enough chargers in a carpark. I can see there being a lot of confrontations.
hunter 66 said:
I have a V12.... Ferrari and 12 V ... Tesla X . The Key is the supercharger network and use a nearby one when doing the weekly grocery shop as then do not have to pay the car park fee either ....
In London ... £10 a year congestion fee and maximum 80p a day parking charge will save you about £200 a week over a daily commute in a diesel..... without taking fuel and service costs ...
Yes they are more expensive but the X is very well finished ...
Sadly the V12 gets very little use.
I was wondering how much range do you get out of your X? I just ask as a friend had one for 2 months, him and some friends went to go cycling in France and he found he was barely getting 100 miles between charges he hit the roof especially as all of his mates got there in half the time. He had a Range Rover by the end of the week when he got back. In London ... £10 a year congestion fee and maximum 80p a day parking charge will save you about £200 a week over a daily commute in a diesel..... without taking fuel and service costs ...
Yes they are more expensive but the X is very well finished ...
Sadly the V12 gets very little use.
I'm not sure if he was exaggerating but I have heard rumours that with the big wheels they don't get that far range wise? He did also have a bike rack on the back which obviously makes a big difference.
I have forgotten to mention the biggest problem with Tesla ownership convincing the wife not to take the quiet comfortable free car to take the loud uncomfortable and extremely expensive Ferrari to the South of France instead.
I must apologise to everyone I have no idea were I got £15 from might have been when I worked out before I even bought the car ... I looked up my tax code yesterday this year I'm paying £92 per month still very good for the size, performance and expense of the car.
Unfortunately I have to report that once again Tesla let me down today. My car was meant to be collected from my work at 11am so it gets to 1pm I finish work and I give them a call I am told driver left hours ago so should be there any minute ... driver turns up at 3:30. By this point I am obviously pissed off as I was meant to take my wife shopping this afternoon for her Birthday instead I spent it sat at work waiting.
The bit that annoyed me most was no call to let me know the driver was going to be late and when he got there he didn't apologise. He spoke to me like it was so amazing they were collecting my car for me. No acknowledgment he was 4.5 hours late!!!!!
I feel like Tesla the company is 70% the problem not the product.
Unfortunately I have to report that once again Tesla let me down today. My car was meant to be collected from my work at 11am so it gets to 1pm I finish work and I give them a call I am told driver left hours ago so should be there any minute ... driver turns up at 3:30. By this point I am obviously pissed off as I was meant to take my wife shopping this afternoon for her Birthday instead I spent it sat at work waiting.
The bit that annoyed me most was no call to let me know the driver was going to be late and when he got there he didn't apologise. He spoke to me like it was so amazing they were collecting my car for me. No acknowledgment he was 4.5 hours late!!!!!
I feel like Tesla the company is 70% the problem not the product.
audi321 said:
imagine what??? Am I missing something obvious?
Also, re the OP. There's clearly something wrong with your dads car, a 90D should certainly be getting more than 200 miles range, my 75D gets 260 miles, so I really don't know what's going on there, what is his average m/kwh?
Finally.........that youtube video........James and Kate are great channel to subscribe to. Down to earth and I think he's an AA man (she could be also) so no surprise she was able to dismantle the MS so easily.
I have to ask where do you live what kind of driving do you do to get that 260 miles ours gets absolutely know where near that. As far as we can work out the only way to get that kind of range is to do 40-50 max which is just not going to happen living up here in Norfolk. Also, re the OP. There's clearly something wrong with your dads car, a 90D should certainly be getting more than 200 miles range, my 75D gets 260 miles, so I really don't know what's going on there, what is his average m/kwh?
Finally.........that youtube video........James and Kate are great channel to subscribe to. Down to earth and I think he's an AA man (she could be also) so no surprise she was able to dismantle the MS so easily.
I just got back from Austria in mine and basically at any kind of decent speed I was struggling to do 120 miles between charges on the autobahn. Which is kind of frustrating because the cars have so much performance but its kind of wasted on long journeys because you can't use it much which is a shame.
That 120 was cruise set at 90 then moving down to 85 when I started to get worried hahahah. I should point out it was raining and there was some hills which of course all effects range but every other car on the road has to deal with it.
At 70 the car does seem to do much better but when you start to wind the speed up the range seems to plummet pretty quickly. Which is of course like most cars just seems more severe than an ICE and of course in a ICE when the mpg drops you just put more dino juice in it as opposed to waiting at a charger or worse case scenario run out totally.
At 70 the car does seem to do much better but when you start to wind the speed up the range seems to plummet pretty quickly. Which is of course like most cars just seems more severe than an ICE and of course in a ICE when the mpg drops you just put more dino juice in it as opposed to waiting at a charger or worse case scenario run out totally.
I have had my car down to 250 why but f
k me it was painful driving like that. In the summer I hover around the 320 mark but in winter mine is around the 380.
It can be done to get much improved range but I find it very boring and inconvenient. To be brutally honest I don't see why I should have to compromise my driving enjoyment to get the range and I find it frustrating sometimes to be strangeled on long journeys.
I have a friend who works on the suspension and chassis for these out in the states he got head hubted from Lotus so that explains the handling.. he gets about the same as me and told me it was about right for the way I drive.
I went down to Cornwall in my wife's golf R estate on the bank holiday and I very much enjoyed driving fast and care free. Of course I am in the minority I do a lot of Long journeys quite often under pressure. Day to day staying locally I love my car.
k me it was painful driving like that. In the summer I hover around the 320 mark but in winter mine is around the 380.It can be done to get much improved range but I find it very boring and inconvenient. To be brutally honest I don't see why I should have to compromise my driving enjoyment to get the range and I find it frustrating sometimes to be strangeled on long journeys.
I have a friend who works on the suspension and chassis for these out in the states he got head hubted from Lotus so that explains the handling.. he gets about the same as me and told me it was about right for the way I drive.
I went down to Cornwall in my wife's golf R estate on the bank holiday and I very much enjoyed driving fast and care free. Of course I am in the minority I do a lot of Long journeys quite often under pressure. Day to day staying locally I love my car.
Edited by ntiz on Friday 1st September 14:53
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