Tesla Roll-Out

[Ares]

Bit of a road trip over the weekend, saw us call into an above average number of service stations.

Notable additions to most were a bank of Tesla superchargers being constructed:

[Ares]

Shiv_P said:

What about normal electric cars?
I doubt in the future everyone will buy a tesla...

'Normal' electric charging points on the there side of the cars park (a lot further away from the Starbucks....)

But shows the investment in infrastructure that Tesla are commuting to compared to others!

[Ares]

lost in espace said:

Shiv_P said:

What about normal electric cars?
I doubt in the future everyone will buy a tesla...

Best get buying now then. Ecotricity and Polar rapids for us mortals, only govt intervention will sort this out. Hasn't the govt said they will insist on chargers at every petrol station?

OP where was it?

That one was Hartshead Moor on M62.

[Ares]

Cold said:

Looks like an inspiring place to park for 45 minutes.

As inspring as all service stations.

There was a brand new Starbucks 3 feet to my right though. Ironically, the time taken to park up, get family out of the car, order, eat/drink and go to the toilet was more than the 20mins a Tesla would need to supercharge to 50% charge.

[Ares]

ILoveMondeo said:

I stopped somewhere on the M6 a few weeks ago, there was a good 10 maybe more Tesla bays. All full, and not one of the cars was a Tesla.

Must be wonderful to spunk 100k on a shiny new Tesla and not be able to access a charger as some tool is parked up in the Tesla bay because it's a bit closer to the McDonalds.

I'd love a Tesla, and have been thinking about the practicalities of stopping on longer trips to charge

The prospect of an argument with some balloon head who wont shift his car so I can get on a fast charger doesn't encourage me!

Most Tesla bays are separate, and as with the photo, there are loads of bays just as near as the Tesla ones

[Ares]

NDNDNDND said:

Ares said:

As inspring as all service stations.

There was a brand new Starbucks 3 feet to my right though. Ironically, the time taken to park up, get family out of the car, order, eat/drink and go to the toilet was more than the 20mins a Tesla would need to supercharge to 50% charge.

According to leccy.net a P100D will only supercharge to 50% in 20 minutes if it starts off from a charge of 25%. That's an increase in range of only 80 miles. To see a 50% increase in range from 25%, you'd have to supercharge for just over 50 minutes.

I hope you find the couches in Starbucks comfy.

Says it needs 37 mins for a 50% charge:

[Ares]

Disco Infiltrator said:

Spunagain said:

Odd, as How many left - model S shows well over 5000 model S's.
How many left - model X shows over 500 model X's.
And that can be up to 6 months out of date...

Edited by Spunagain on Tuesday 19th September 13:00

It's a figure I found on another site. I certainly don't see many.

Loads round here, more than their fair share of £100k cars represented.

Still nothing like as many as in the US though.

[Ares]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Disco Infiltrator said:

Spunagain said:

Odd, as How many left - model S shows well over 5000 model S's.
How many left - model X shows over 500 model X's.
And that can be up to 6 months out of date...

Edited by Spunagain on Tuesday 19th September 13:00

It's a figure I found on another site. I certainly don't see many.

Loads round here, more than their fair share of £100k cars represented.

Still nothing like as many as in the US though.

What do they cost in the US?

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

[Ares]

Disco Infiltrator said:

The only ones I see are minicabs or chauffeur cars. Less than one a month for sure. Worldwide sales of around 150000 in 6 years would suggest they aren't particularly common anywhere.

The Yank's best selling car, the Toyota Camry, sold more than 230000 cars in 2016 alone.

And the Model S starts at £60k or £70k USD.

Edited by Disco Infiltrator on Wednesday 20th September 08:50

Given Tesla is still ramping up production and numbers sold are growing exponentially, I'd say 150,000 is pretty good.

How many BMW 7-series or Audi A8s were sold?

Edited by Ares on Wednesday 20th September 10:36

[Ares]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

[Ares]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

Could you enlarge on your breaking even calculation?

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D. The maths told me that you could buy the BMW, fuel it for 4 years and throw it away and still be £££ in compared to the cost of the S.

Maybe if you're not paying personally and can manage with the limited range my argument's less valid but less than 3% of cars in the U.K. are bought by Companies and not all of us commute.

Time will tell; hopefully when Tesla get some competition, which they no doubt will, we'll see some realism come into the pricing.

I was basing it on something a lot spicier than a 530d!

Roughly, the Tesla was 200-250/mth more. Half of that (at least) was saved in fuel the rest eaten up by the reduced taxation.

[Ares]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

Could you enlarge on your breaking even calculation?

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D. The maths told me that you could buy the BMW, fuel it for 4 years and throw it away and still be £££ in compared to the cost of the S.

Maybe if you're not paying personally and can manage with the limited range my argument's less valid but less than 3% of cars in the U.K. are bought by Companies and not all of us commute.

Time will tell; hopefully when Tesla get some competition, which they no doubt will, we'll see some realism come into the pricing.

I was basing it on something a lot spicier than a 530d!

Roughly, the Tesla was 200-250/mth more. Half of that (at least) was saved in fuel the rest eaten up by the reduced taxation.

Why? In reality the S is no more useful than a cooking 5 series. You can't use the performance without decimating the range and the evidence shows that most owners wander along at a very sedate pace to maintain a half decent range. To be fair I tend to wander along in my 530, though even averaging 80/90 across Europe it will do well in excess of 400 miles on a tank.

Every review I've read, and my own experience, classifies the handling of the S as mediocre or similar; sound levels at motorway speeds are similar to a diesel 5 series. The build quality is not yet at 5 series levels, nor the quality of trim and interior. IMO from experience and research.

It's unreasonable, again IMO, to compare it with something 'a lot spicier' than a 530d. Give us an example. 0-60 times aren't the be all and end all.

Simply size and performance. I almost never driven more than 150 miles in one go, and if I do, I'll pass supercharger points. Range was a non-issue (as it is for most)

The P95D I was looking at was more akin to an S-Class size with AMG performance. I wasn't comparing it with that, I was comparing it with M3/Alfa QV/C63s.

It was the drive after the 'Tesla grin' inducing performance that put me off.

[Ares]

manracer said:

Ares said:

Disco Infiltrator said:

Spunagain said:

Odd, as How many left - model S shows well over 5000 model S's.
How many left - model X shows over 500 model X's.
And that can be up to 6 months out of date...

Edited by Spunagain on Tuesday 19th September 13:00

It's a figure I found on another site. I certainly don't see many.

Loads round here, more than their fair share of £100k cars represented.

Still nothing like as many as in the US though.

I've been in the US for the last 2 weeks. I've covered 1500 miles. I've send 4 model S and 0 model x.

And I'm not anti EV, I have a model 3 on order.
Certainly expected to see more. Maybe I will this next week in California.

I was in Chicago and the North Shore. 100s of them there.

[Ares]

manracer said:

Today I drove 400 miles from Vegas to northern California. I saw 2 model s bringing the total to 6. Still yet to see s model x over here. I'm not disputing the numbers of them over here, I'm just reporting what I'm seeing so far. I'm in San Francisco tomorrow and then working my way down the coast to LA and San Diego in the next week or so, so I'll probably see many more, just find it odd that in 2000 miles I've seen so few.

On my brother's street in Chicago (Evanston to be exact) there are 3 Model Ss and 2 Model Xs. See at least a dozen a day in the North Shore suburbs.

[Ares]

ukshooter said:

I'm on my second Tesla, I've recounted in the past how the first one ended up being free after driving 53,000 miles in 2 years in it thanks to the tax incentives, the free electricity from the superchargers and what I got back when I sold the car.

My new one, February 2017 is a loaded 90D, I've been overseas for 3 weeks so the mileage has dropped a bit but will be turning over 28,000miles in the next few days.

Is it perfect, hell no, if it had a petrol engine I wouldn't go near it as for the price (list on mine was around £99k) there is so many better alternatives. But as an EV, and a long range high mileage car I don't think it can be beat and it's going to be a while before something comes along to better it. Yes the iPace and perhaps a new BMW and even the Bentley will be a better overall car but until any of those manufacturers get a decent charging network in place they are still going to be also-rans.

The Tesla and all EV's I've looked at are soul-less compared to many sports cars but as a daily driver if you are able to have a second car for fun then they are the way ahead.

Exactly the target market.