Charging EV's important info.
Discussion
Hi All,
Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
The Grenfell Inquiry has been 'got at' I'm afraid, the moment someone called for a public inquiry the door was opened to bribery and corruption!
They used the services of an 'American' electrical expert for their report into the cause of the fire a Dr. Duncan Glover, who didn't (and as he has now gone into hiding) still doesn't know that there is a 'fuse' inside a 13amp plug!
Can you believe that?
As the circuit breaker was a 32amp BS EN version, the i2 value of which is >46amps. All of the cabling in the ring circuit, the flex and inside the fridge freezer were vulnerable to ignition once the current flow slowly crept up passed 42amps.
It's just a case of which cable had the worst length to cross sectional area ratio, that would have decided which one caught fire first once the plug top fuse was wrapped in tin foil.
They used the services of an 'American' electrical expert for their report into the cause of the fire a Dr. Duncan Glover, who didn't (and as he has now gone into hiding) still doesn't know that there is a 'fuse' inside a 13amp plug!
Can you believe that?
As the circuit breaker was a 32amp BS EN version, the i2 value of which is >46amps. All of the cabling in the ring circuit, the flex and inside the fridge freezer were vulnerable to ignition once the current flow slowly crept up passed 42amps.
It's just a case of which cable had the worst length to cross sectional area ratio, that would have decided which one caught fire first once the plug top fuse was wrapped in tin foil.
Yeah sure the fridge freezer was certainly faulty, but it should have therefore blown the 10/13 amp fuse in the plug top.
Therefore the plug top fuse must have been 'wrapped' in tin foil (or similar).
Therefore if a member of the public (usually adolescent kid) wraps a fuse in silver paper, who do you blame for the house burning down?
(i) - the adolescent child; or
(ii) - the electrician who designed the installation (seeing as he knows full well that this will happen)
In this case the IET!
The 32amp BS EN circuit breakers they are using are not sensitive enough for a 2.5mm T&E ring main, they should be using the 25amp version.
D. W. Cockburn
Author - An Illustrated Explanation of Automatic Disconnection of Supply
Therefore the plug top fuse must have been 'wrapped' in tin foil (or similar).
Therefore if a member of the public (usually adolescent kid) wraps a fuse in silver paper, who do you blame for the house burning down?
(i) - the adolescent child; or
(ii) - the electrician who designed the installation (seeing as he knows full well that this will happen)
In this case the IET!
The 32amp BS EN circuit breakers they are using are not sensitive enough for a 2.5mm T&E ring main, they should be using the 25amp version.
D. W. Cockburn
Author - An Illustrated Explanation of Automatic Disconnection of Supply
Every Electrician knows that fuses get wrapped in silver foil, it is just a fact of life for all of us.
Therefore it is our job and our responsibility to prevent a wrapped fuse from setting fire to your house (to protect the third party). I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
OK, let's start by asking the question that usually sorts the men from the boys:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 2.5mm T&E domestic 30amp ring main against over-current?
Anyone answering '30amp' go to the back of the class and answer a second question:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 4.0mm T&E light industrial 30amp ring main against over-current?
Now you may answer '30amp'.
The answer to the first question is, in reality 20amp!
If further proof is needed, take a close look at the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and compare them to their immediate replacement - a BS 30amp circuit breaker.
They are almost identical!
Now compare those time current characteristics to a BS EN 32amp circuit breaker;
can you see the problem?
Therefore it is our job and our responsibility to prevent a wrapped fuse from setting fire to your house (to protect the third party). I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
OK, let's start by asking the question that usually sorts the men from the boys:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 2.5mm T&E domestic 30amp ring main against over-current?
Anyone answering '30amp' go to the back of the class and answer a second question:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 4.0mm T&E light industrial 30amp ring main against over-current?
Now you may answer '30amp'.
The answer to the first question is, in reality 20amp!
If further proof is needed, take a close look at the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and compare them to their immediate replacement - a BS 30amp circuit breaker.
They are almost identical!
Now compare those time current characteristics to a BS EN 32amp circuit breaker;
can you see the problem?
Character assassination and the invocation of chaos theory are the hallmarks of the cocaine user.
OK, it would appear that one can no longer compare the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and a BS 30amp circuit breaker; as many years ago when I pointed out the problem to the IET it appears that their response was to remove the appropriate information from the regulations!
Therefore who do you blame now?
(i) the electrician or;
(ii) the IET
OK, it would appear that one can no longer compare the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and a BS 30amp circuit breaker; as many years ago when I pointed out the problem to the IET it appears that their response was to remove the appropriate information from the regulations!
Therefore who do you blame now?
(i) the electrician or;
(ii) the IET
You are claiming that the "current carrying capacity of 6mm T&E is 50amps+"!
Would you like to show your working out please?
Oh, no need:
6mm T&E has a ccc of 51amps when installed 'in free air/on cable tray'.
Fair enough; but the cost of buying and installing cable tray would work out more expensive than simply buying 10mm T&E, plus you have to be lucky enough to be able to punch out from the mains straight into 'free air' in the first place.
I think we will just treat that as an attempt at invoking chaos theory into the minds of the readers!
Would you like to show your working out please?
Oh, no need:
6mm T&E has a ccc of 51amps when installed 'in free air/on cable tray'.
Fair enough; but the cost of buying and installing cable tray would work out more expensive than simply buying 10mm T&E, plus you have to be lucky enough to be able to punch out from the mains straight into 'free air' in the first place.
I think we will just treat that as an attempt at invoking chaos theory into the minds of the readers!
Edited by Coby1 on Wednesday 3rd June 16:46
The one thing I don't understand is why you people appear so 'desperate' to stop people listening to what I have to say, when you have no technical argument with what I am saying???
Given the importance of the subject matter:
Where are your morals for crying out loud?
Where is your respect for the sanctity of human life?
Are you advocating killing innocent people?
I'm afraid you are giving the impression that you must be dangerously psychotic rather than just misinformed!
It would make it easier to understand of course if this small number of faceless, nameless individuals following me around the internet 'bad mouthing' everything that have to say or write have something to fear.
Seventy odd charges of 'corporate manslaughter' perhaps?
What was the name of that girl who was electrocuted in her own airing cupboard?
Given the importance of the subject matter:
Where are your morals for crying out loud?
Where is your respect for the sanctity of human life?
Are you advocating killing innocent people?
I'm afraid you are giving the impression that you must be dangerously psychotic rather than just misinformed!
It would make it easier to understand of course if this small number of faceless, nameless individuals following me around the internet 'bad mouthing' everything that have to say or write have something to fear.
Seventy odd charges of 'corporate manslaughter' perhaps?
What was the name of that girl who was electrocuted in her own airing cupboard?
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