Help me justify buying a 2017 330e on 25k, to replace a 330i
Discussion
Man Maths assistance needed
I want to spend an extra £10k on buying a 2017 330e (with split fold seats) on 25k miles with one year's warranty....
to replace my 2009 LCI 330i SE Touring on 25k (yes 25k) miles, which also has 11 months BMW warranty outstanding.
I fancy the newer car, the plug-in hybrid tech, and the fresher look.
But Her Indoors is asking why I should give up the flexibility of the Estate body shell, and lay out £10k for the privilege.
Fuel saving is "probably" £700 pa on 12,000 miles a year ( no more than 15mpg (currently 35mpg, expecting 50mpg on the 330e.)
I have no estimate of electricity cost for the 330e, but I guess four nights worth of charge at home - call it just £150 a year.
(I used to do much lower mileage, but I'm expecting it to be closer to £12k going forward)
Road tax saving appears to be £105 pa (£145 instead of £250)
Maintenance: probably lower on the newer car - but can't really create a number.
Depreciation: I "guess" the 2017 330e will depreciate by £2.5 k a year, while the 330i Touring probably isn't depreciating at all.
Help me justify - or tell me why I shouldn't,....
I want to spend an extra £10k on buying a 2017 330e (with split fold seats) on 25k miles with one year's warranty....
to replace my 2009 LCI 330i SE Touring on 25k (yes 25k) miles, which also has 11 months BMW warranty outstanding.
I fancy the newer car, the plug-in hybrid tech, and the fresher look.
But Her Indoors is asking why I should give up the flexibility of the Estate body shell, and lay out £10k for the privilege.
Fuel saving is "probably" £700 pa on 12,000 miles a year ( no more than 15mpg (currently 35mpg, expecting 50mpg on the 330e.)
I have no estimate of electricity cost for the 330e, but I guess four nights worth of charge at home - call it just £150 a year.
(I used to do much lower mileage, but I'm expecting it to be closer to £12k going forward)
Road tax saving appears to be £105 pa (£145 instead of £250)
Maintenance: probably lower on the newer car - but can't really create a number.
Depreciation: I "guess" the 2017 330e will depreciate by £2.5 k a year, while the 330i Touring probably isn't depreciating at all.
Help me justify - or tell me why I shouldn't,....
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
Go the whole hog and do a manmath spreadsheet for a Tesla model 3 LR
You can lease um for £400 ish a month
I'd love to try a Tesla but I'd need a "Mammoth" spreadsheet to justify £5k a year to replace a 330i which is worth thruppence and isn't depreciating, even if it does save £2k in petrol. Brand new cars are for the Company car boys really. (And we thank you very much, Company car boys, we really do)You can lease um for £400 ish a month
The G Series is beyond my budget. I don't "do" new car depreciation - that's for the company car boys and girls.
I understand the that G series is viewed as being a better PHEV and a better car that the F series generally, but I won't touch it for another three years.
So it's F class or stay where I am with the E91 300i SE touring.
After the criticisms of the 330e, I'm beginning to wonder whether I should "modernise" by going for the 330d (SE or on adaptive suspension).
A 320d doesn't float my boat because of power and smoothness, and 330i's and 335i's just seem to be made of unobtainium.
Is it worth £10k to switch from my "worthless" 2009 330i touring to a 2017 330d saloon on similar mileage & BMW warranty ?
I understand the that G series is viewed as being a better PHEV and a better car that the F series generally, but I won't touch it for another three years.
So it's F class or stay where I am with the E91 300i SE touring.
After the criticisms of the 330e, I'm beginning to wonder whether I should "modernise" by going for the 330d (SE or on adaptive suspension).
A 320d doesn't float my boat because of power and smoothness, and 330i's and 335i's just seem to be made of unobtainium.
Is it worth £10k to switch from my "worthless" 2009 330i touring to a 2017 330d saloon on similar mileage & BMW warranty ?
Edited by MikeInWimbledon on Saturday 12th June 08:41
I’m looking at the 2017 car which has the smaller 7.7kw battery so should cost less to charge for my "electric twelve miles" each day I drive the car. Using your numbers, that still points to less than £200 per year.
I won’t drive a 330e more than 200 days a year ie 4 days a week. I don't use the car every day, or even every week. I don’t commute, I run three cars and I won’t beggar around with cables in the cold or or late at night. (A lot of 330e and 530e owners admit that they can't be bovvered to connect cables. And it's highly unlikely that their wives are ever be bothered to connect a cable.)
Maybe I should be assuming that I'll charge the car more often when I'm out and about: at shops, restaurants, car parks, whatever. If I do, then I'm treating that saving as a potential bonus.
I'm looking at the 330e as a more modern car than the E91.
The 330e is not an EV - I can't afford the enormous depreciation of an EV to run short, local mileages, it's a first generation PHEV. (I have friends who are losing £10k a year in depreciation to do 4,000 miles on a Tesla S. They only do it for the tax break and the Eco virtue signalling)
I couldn't bring myself to run a BMW i3: it has none of the driveability and quality of the 3 series, which is has always been the class leader amongst compact premium cars.
I won’t drive a 330e more than 200 days a year ie 4 days a week. I don't use the car every day, or even every week. I don’t commute, I run three cars and I won’t beggar around with cables in the cold or or late at night. (A lot of 330e and 530e owners admit that they can't be bovvered to connect cables. And it's highly unlikely that their wives are ever be bothered to connect a cable.)
Maybe I should be assuming that I'll charge the car more often when I'm out and about: at shops, restaurants, car parks, whatever. If I do, then I'm treating that saving as a potential bonus.
I'm looking at the 330e as a more modern car than the E91.
The 330e is not an EV - I can't afford the enormous depreciation of an EV to run short, local mileages, it's a first generation PHEV. (I have friends who are losing £10k a year in depreciation to do 4,000 miles on a Tesla S. They only do it for the tax break and the Eco virtue signalling)
I couldn't bring myself to run a BMW i3: it has none of the driveability and quality of the 3 series, which is has always been the class leader amongst compact premium cars.
Edited by MikeInWimbledon on Saturday 12th June 10:38
Edited by MikeInWimbledon on Saturday 12th June 10:45
Neat summary, Earthdweller.
Agreed on the 50% over 3 years thing. Tis true, that a 330e is probably going to lose £2500 a year in depreciation whereas the 330i won't.
As I said at the beginning, I'm assuming I would charge the 330e at home 200 times a year, but not more than that because of holidays, and days when the car's not used because I have two other cars, I don't commute, and I can be certain that my wife will cable up after she has been out and about.
I'm not counting a benefit from charging while out and about because I don't have a guess as to how often I'll be able to plug in for 2 hours.
I did expect more people to say "just update, it's not that much money, and you can't take it with you" but it's good to see that folks seem to be as positive about the 330i straight six petrol as I am.
So maybe this thread IS heading in the "stick with it" direction....
Agreed on the 50% over 3 years thing. Tis true, that a 330e is probably going to lose £2500 a year in depreciation whereas the 330i won't.
As I said at the beginning, I'm assuming I would charge the 330e at home 200 times a year, but not more than that because of holidays, and days when the car's not used because I have two other cars, I don't commute, and I can be certain that my wife will cable up after she has been out and about.
I'm not counting a benefit from charging while out and about because I don't have a guess as to how often I'll be able to plug in for 2 hours.
I did expect more people to say "just update, it's not that much money, and you can't take it with you" but it's good to see that folks seem to be as positive about the 330i straight six petrol as I am.
So maybe this thread IS heading in the "stick with it" direction....
Life is tough. My wife's runabout is an immaculate 2004 Mx5 which also has 25k on the clock and which never needs anything bar maintenance. It's worth pennies. She wouldn't swop it to a newer car for anything.
We'll get through it.
(Isn't depreciation wonderful when other people are picking up the tab? It's like flying Economy mid-week when you know you're being subsidised by the blokes in Business flying at short notice at the weekend)
But the 330e looks so shiny. And the tech is fascinating.
We'll get through it.
(Isn't depreciation wonderful when other people are picking up the tab? It's like flying Economy mid-week when you know you're being subsidised by the blokes in Business flying at short notice at the weekend)
But the 330e looks so shiny. And the tech is fascinating.
“Charge off peak and will be 1.5p per kWh, so 18p. So 4 times a week= 72p, per year, around £40. Peak prices are 14p - cheaper than most normal tariffs.”
Yes, the electricity cost is irrelevant. Especially for the 2017 330e which only has half the battery capacity of the “current” £40k 330e which has the 12kWh battery.
Especially when the achieved petrol mpg is reported to be 40 or 50mpg, which is hardly any distance away from the 35mpg consumption of a 2009 330i.
Yes, the electricity cost is irrelevant. Especially for the 2017 330e which only has half the battery capacity of the “current” £40k 330e which has the 12kWh battery.
Especially when the achieved petrol mpg is reported to be 40 or 50mpg, which is hardly any distance away from the 35mpg consumption of a 2009 330i.
I remember those MP3 players !
As Fagan once said:
“I’m reviewing the situation.”
The 330e is cheap, at well under half price, but maybe it’s not the right solution, just yet. I should either stick or stay old tech.
https://youtu.be/96rC4X_KWl4
As Fagan once said:
“I’m reviewing the situation.”
The 330e is cheap, at well under half price, but maybe it’s not the right solution, just yet. I should either stick or stay old tech.
https://youtu.be/96rC4X_KWl4
So here's "my" conclusion.
I couldn't convince myself about the cost, CO2 or 200kg extra weight case for a 330e, after test drives.
The numbers didn't add up for anyone outside of the Company car tax break wheeze.
So I bought a one owner 320i manual with 12k on the clock. Ticks the box of being "more modern" and delivers 45mpg rather than the 35mpg of my 330i. It's light, on standard suspension (no ratted teeth fillings) and has split fold rear seats, so "probably" meets my basic needs for the local runabout.
First impressions are excellent, but should I have laid out almost twice as much for a 2017 340i estate?
Maybe, maybe not: Wife doesn't see the need to update anyway. Perhaps in a year or two I'll do the Man Maths to justify it.
I couldn't convince myself about the cost, CO2 or 200kg extra weight case for a 330e, after test drives.
The numbers didn't add up for anyone outside of the Company car tax break wheeze.
So I bought a one owner 320i manual with 12k on the clock. Ticks the box of being "more modern" and delivers 45mpg rather than the 35mpg of my 330i. It's light, on standard suspension (no ratted teeth fillings) and has split fold rear seats, so "probably" meets my basic needs for the local runabout.
First impressions are excellent, but should I have laid out almost twice as much for a 2017 340i estate?
Maybe, maybe not: Wife doesn't see the need to update anyway. Perhaps in a year or two I'll do the Man Maths to justify it.
Edited by MikeInWimbledon on Sunday 27th June 11:02
survivalist said:
Interestingly, I’ve just upgraded from a 2006 335i Estate to a 2016 340i Estate. Had it 3 days, so early impressions, but if I had the choice of buying them new tomorrow, for the same price - I’d choose the 2006 model (well, really I’d choose a 2009 LCI model because it looks nicer).
The newer car is definitely ‘better’ but it all feels less raw and more ‘aloof’.
Aye, but the challenge is that we can't buy the E90 or E91 "new" any more.The newer car is definitely ‘better’ but it all feels less raw and more ‘aloof’.
Although my 2009 LCI 330i SE is loopy low mileage at 26k, it still doesn't look as new as the F30, and at 35mpg it is still a tad dearer than the 320i's 46mpg and, even with my BMW Authorised warranty, there's always that suspicion that the 12 year old car might have some kind of age related problem one day.
But then we've been through all this before when the E90 replaced the E46....
Thanks for these replies. All really useful.
I'd struggle to own an I3, even as a local runabout, because of the look. I'm sure I'd end up using my much larger grand tourer just for vanity.
It's interesting how the massive Benefit in Kind tax advantage made the 320e an obvious choice for the company car driver but not so much for the private, second owner.
Curious times for we "impoverished" (chuckle) second owners, as we look at the resale values and the huge number of PHEV's waiting for new buyers out there.
It's a shame there isn't a clearer way of modelling the ownership costs for second owners. But maybe that's just as well.
To be continued.
I'd struggle to own an I3, even as a local runabout, because of the look. I'm sure I'd end up using my much larger grand tourer just for vanity.
It's interesting how the massive Benefit in Kind tax advantage made the 320e an obvious choice for the company car driver but not so much for the private, second owner.
Curious times for we "impoverished" (chuckle) second owners, as we look at the resale values and the huge number of PHEV's waiting for new buyers out there.
It's a shame there isn't a clearer way of modelling the ownership costs for second owners. But maybe that's just as well.
To be continued.
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