Anyone been tempted to return to ICE for one last hurrah?
Discussion
Kind of like the title says!
I’ve had an i3 for just under a year. Great fun to drive, but it’s been the most unreliable vehicle I’ve ever owned. Did 80k across 3 Audis before I got this with 2 warranty issues in total, in 15k miles the i3’s been to the dealer 5 times with a 6th scheduled.
Without question it needs to go. Before I’d been thinking of going for another electric (Q4, e-tron, iX3 maybe as although BMW have been awful to me I love the interior), but I’ve seen a couple SQ5s that meet my (admittedly high) spec requirements.
With everything that’s happening, it may not be the most financially sound decision, but seeing as the ICE’s days are numbered has anyone else been tempted to get one more? I don’t think I’d be considering it for a boggo 40TDI Q5, but I feel with something (comparatively) special it might be worth it. I’m currently living well within my means so inflation isn’t (too) scary for me, and I could pay for the SQ5 with the cash in my current account plus the i3 trade in…
I’ve had an i3 for just under a year. Great fun to drive, but it’s been the most unreliable vehicle I’ve ever owned. Did 80k across 3 Audis before I got this with 2 warranty issues in total, in 15k miles the i3’s been to the dealer 5 times with a 6th scheduled.
Without question it needs to go. Before I’d been thinking of going for another electric (Q4, e-tron, iX3 maybe as although BMW have been awful to me I love the interior), but I’ve seen a couple SQ5s that meet my (admittedly high) spec requirements.
With everything that’s happening, it may not be the most financially sound decision, but seeing as the ICE’s days are numbered has anyone else been tempted to get one more? I don’t think I’d be considering it for a boggo 40TDI Q5, but I feel with something (comparatively) special it might be worth it. I’m currently living well within my means so inflation isn’t (too) scary for me, and I could pay for the SQ5 with the cash in my current account plus the i3 trade in…
somouk said:
You’ll still be able to get ICE for years to come but they may not be new. The cost of running it will slowly increase though.
If you are moving somewhere new I would be more concerned about the ability to charge an EV in that parking space if it doesn’t already have a charger.
Running cost is definitely a big consideration - I don’t want to be running a petrol car in 10 years!If you are moving somewhere new I would be more concerned about the ability to charge an EV in that parking space if it doesn’t already have a charger.
I’m moving to London - I still need the car for work, so am definitely keeping it. Public charging doesn’t seem too bad, but then there’s the problem of more potential charges - I’ve quite enjoyed going into the congestion zone for free hahaha
Max_Torque said:
Have you got the range extender i3 version?
I've had 2 BEV i3's for 7 years in total and exactly nothing has ever gone wrong with either. Ok, sample of one, but i think the BEV version from around 2016 onwards is really very reliable as far as i can tell?
I’ve got an LCI 2018 BEV. To be fair, it’s not stuff like refusing to charge or randomly stopping - but I’ve had a battery module go (3k cost if it wasn’t in warranty), collision assist randomly go off a few times at 60+mph, unreliable adaptive cruise, a wind whistle that two dealers now have blamed on prior accident damage despite it being a CPO from Guildford BMW, and the 12V socket and USB port stop working. Oh and weirdly rattling windows, sat nav screen and seatbelt mounts! Reading BMW also absolutely ruined a door seal but that’s another story I've had 2 BEV i3's for 7 years in total and exactly nothing has ever gone wrong with either. Ok, sample of one, but i think the BEV version from around 2016 onwards is really very reliable as far as i can tell?
Edited to add the rattles, had completely forgotten them hahahah
Edited by johnjamesjack on Tuesday 24th May 22:11
SWoll said:
Sounds you've gotten unlucky and landed on a lemon. General consensus of later BEV models seems very good from what I've seen, I'd avoid the Rex though.
I know, and that’s the thing that’s a bit of a killer. When I bought it, I genuinely thought I’d keep it for 5+ years (longest I’ve had a car for before was 4). It’s still absolutely perfect for nipping to the shops or into London, where I genuinely can’t think of a car I’d rather be in.But the unreliability of this particular car is a joke. I’d traded in an A3 e-tron PHEV that was just about to pass 70k miles thinking this would be more reliable, how wrong I was! 6 dealer visits in 12 months is a complete joke.
DMZ said:
To the original question, I think ICE is superior so yes… I think EVs are probably minimally 2-3 years away from being good enough. I don’t mean stuff like range and charging but as an experience and in terms of packaging. We have an EV in the household so can use it but not something I do day to day. I think I’m actually gradually losing interest in EVs. I can’t think of one that interests me. There is a certain sameness about them and once you have done the whole “this is different from ICE” then you’ve kind of done it. The generic blob look is not that appealing either tbh. I’m sure in time manufacturers will figure this out or I will forget about how cars used to drive and what they looked like (and sounded like).
Exactly the same. I was excited when I saw the i3 as it was something different and fun. Test drove a Q4 and it didn’t even feel like an Audi imho, the e-tron is very nice too but not exciting. Not tried the iX3 but not expecting it to be anything that’ll knock my socks off. C.A.R. said:
To be fair the i3 is more of a small city car than a primary 'single vehicle' Jack-of-all-trades. Perhaps what you need is a decent modern EV rather than a city runabout?
SQ5's, as nice as they are, surely only at some point going to get priced out of London?
Yeah completely agree about the i3 not being great as a primary vehicle - 90% of the time I’m going somewhere, I’ll grab the keys to the BMW, but for the 10% of journeys that I’m using the Q7 for it would literally be impossible to take the i3 (a bunch of stuff, people, or distance covered!)SQ5's, as nice as they are, surely only at some point going to get priced out of London?
I’ve tried a few newer/bigger EVs. As well as being quite expensive for what I’d want (£10k more than the SQ5 for an e-tron, £20k for a properly specced Q4), they just don’t give me the same spark I got the first time I drove the i3. My grandma had a 2016 SQ5 I used when I was interning in the US one summer, and I absolutely loved it. I know it’s a different generation but can’t imagine it being that different from the ones I’m looking at.
SWoll said:
Not really understanding your point. EV's come in many shapes and sizes and from a packaging perspective are far superior to ICE in most cases. I also don't get the "all the same" argument. We've had 3 now and they've all been utterly different in the way they are operated and how they drive.
As a day to day drivetrain I don't miss ICE in the slightest. What I do miss is not having a car I'd grab the keys to just to drive for the sake of it. That's where they fall down for me at present, although not driven a Taycan yet.
Can’t speak for the OP but for me the VW platform has kind of ruined it for me. The enyaq/ID4/Q4 all look very similar to me, not completely sold on Tesla’s design, and the rest are either a bit too coupe/SUV (think ipace or EV6) or just a bit boring.As a day to day drivetrain I don't miss ICE in the slightest. What I do miss is not having a car I'd grab the keys to just to drive for the sake of it. That's where they fall down for me at present, although not driven a Taycan yet.
I definitely would miss the way electric cars go if I did the switch back. I love the fact that it goes so smoothly - I’d almost say the i3 is at the point where I’d go for a drive for the sake of a drive, but not quite as much as my mum’s 1.8tfsi A3 cabrio that I’ve been running whilst she’s on vacation. Taycan is lovely - although imho not as fun as an SQ5 and a bit out of my price range!
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Have you driven an i4 M50 or Model 3 Performance? Sound like they might be more your thing, if not I'd suggest EV's aren't likely to be for you.
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Unfortunately both are a bit out of my current price range. The thing is, I love EVs in principle, and absolutely love my i3 and would have kept it for another 4 years were it not for all the issues it’s had. Honestly the most tempting thing for me right now in terms of EVs is an e-tron, I just really didn’t love the Q4 and a sunroof is a must have meaning I’d have to spend 66k on a 50 vorsprung!
SWoll said:
If a 1.8 A3 and SQ5 are your idea of grab the keys fun then 100% stick with ICE.
For me to have one back on the drive it would need to be something pretty special from an engine perspective or just not worth the hassle. I'm thinking Maserati GT, XFR-S, M3 V8 etc.
With the A3 I think it’s more just having a cabrio in the nice weather!For me to have one back on the drive it would need to be something pretty special from an engine perspective or just not worth the hassle. I'm thinking Maserati GT, XFR-S, M3 V8 etc.
I’m not sure the SQ5 would be grab-your-keys fun - however I definitely think that it would be more fun than my i3, with the added bonus of not having to worry about the unreliability (and the weird predisposition to punctures it seems to have, never had one before but I’ve had 3 in 15k on the i3).
richolmes said:
I’ve got a 2018 LCI BEV i3 and had zero issues in the last 9 months I’ve owned the car and general consensus is 2017 onwards these are generally reliable. The adaptive cruise / city alert stuff is all camera based and inherently unreliable, if you have expectations of a radar system it just won’t meet them. Maybe keep the car, and hope you’ve found all the issues?
That said, I wouldn’t have it as an only car and I have a larger petrol car for long journeys (mostly comfort reasons, although partly charging) The i3 does the bulk of the mileage though.
Yeah I went into the deal knowing the adaptive cruise wouldn’t be quite as good as the radar system on the A3 I traded in / my mum’s GLA she had in 2014 / my friend’s 2009 Volvo (lol) - I just didn’t expect it to refuse to activate about a quarter of the time I tried to use it! And the collision assist going off randomly at high speeds is downright dangerous. Never had that happen before.That said, I wouldn’t have it as an only car and I have a larger petrol car for long journeys (mostly comfort reasons, although partly charging) The i3 does the bulk of the mileage though.
Even with all these issues the i3 does the bulk of my mileage too. But honestly, with everything that’s gone wrong, continues to go wrong (USB port still intermittent, rattling still not fixed), and the possibility of another expensive repair (I’m certainly not paying £3k for a battery module!) I actively don’t want to own this vehicle once the warranty expires. It’s a shame because (apologies if I’m repeating myself lol) I would have 100% loved to keep the i3 for a substantial period of time.
gangzoom said:
Whoo hold on....you are moving to London, the land where a 3 bed, 100 years+ end terrace just within Zone 3 with no off road parking will cost you 750k+!!
Is London likely where you are going to be for the next 5-10 years? If you have cash in the bank, it probably make more sense to see where you are interms of getting on the housing ladder, especially if a property price crash comes.
I’m definitely not planning on being there for a long time - tbh I plan to be moving to the states in a couple years! And don’t worry I’m definitely not looking at a 3 bed, very much pre-family right now hahaIs London likely where you are going to be for the next 5-10 years? If you have cash in the bank, it probably make more sense to see where you are interms of getting on the housing ladder, especially if a property price crash comes.
gangzoom said:
In which case don't waste time on a SQ5, get an Elise/old 911/350Z/S2000 basically RWD and not for families etc. If you want to 'enjoy' a petrol car might as well get something special versus family wagon. I suspect a thought after 'fun' combustion car (not a SQ5) will only go up in value over the next few years.
For EVs, the Twizzy just looks insane, sitting in one just feels mad and for London it would work really well, but its really a toy versus transport.
As much fun as they’d be, honestly I’m looking for something a bit more reliable than the BMW! Also as it’s my only car, I definitely want something that’s well behaved when you need it to be and can calm you down a bit - my sister had a Mini that was great fun, but no way would I want to be driving that to a client site in Slough in stop start traffic in November when it’s raining if you know what I mean. I’ve done that commute in the Mini, my i3 and the Q7 - by far my favorite car in that scenario (which is an unfortunately large part of my driving) is the Q7For EVs, the Twizzy just looks insane, sitting in one just feels mad and for London it would work really well, but its really a toy versus transport.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 25th May 07:32
blearyeyedboy said:
Have you considered selling your dodgy i3 and buying a not-dodgy i3?
If you like the way the i3 drives and most are much more reliable than your current example, is that the simplest fix?
That would have been ideal. Unfortunately I’ve been massively turned off by this particular car, and the atrocious treatment by BMW. I’ve had letters sent to me, free services, and charitable donations made in my name for significantly less critical issues from Audi dealers (think along the lines of delay, miscommunication and a rude staff member), whereas Reading BMW broke part of my car and didn’t even apologize or admit fault even when I came back with photographic evidence. If you like the way the i3 drives and most are much more reliable than your current example, is that the simplest fix?
Also I feel it’s a bit of fool me once, shame on you if you know what I mean
Moonpie21 said:
8 months on my 71 I3s and no issues at all apart from an oddly rattling drivers window, I have found just tapping the window down button quickly to move it a fraction gets rid of it... I can only assume it's a poorly fitting rubber seal or something, however for that I will not have the dealer look at it as it may come back worse (my experience when hunting niggles).
Exactly the same regarding small issues in my experience. Went to Reading to deal with rattly windows and wind whistle, came back with rattly seatbelt mount and sat nav screen too (somehow)plfrench said:
I've not even left ICE yet with my own car, but having driven my wife's EV a lot, there's no way I'd go back once I get mine (apart from my TVR, but that doesn't count 
). Certainly wouldn't go back for a Diesel SUV?!! I miss the immediacy of response of EV every time I drive my E350d. It's the gearbox as much as the engine itself, but as a drivetrain package it is so compromised in comparison.
Good thing I’m not going for diesel ). Certainly wouldn't go back for a Diesel SUV?!! I miss the immediacy of response of EV every time I drive my E350d. It's the gearbox as much as the engine itself, but as a drivetrain package it is so compromised in comparison. 
I’m looking at a 2018, which was when they still used petrol!I definitely would miss the immediacy of electric. However when the ICE would get to 60mph 30% faster I think I could forgive it hahahah
Electronicpants said:
Have you thought about going to a plug in hybrid, you get the convince/cost saving of the daily boring stuff in EV and if you want to hear some petrol being burned most have a sport mode so you can rev away?
Was really strongly considering it. Still could be tempted by a 55TFSIe Q5, they’ve got more power than the SQ5 anyway - only thing is they’re a bit more expensive too. Cheapest one I found that had everything the SQ5 did was £10k more and in turbo blue which I’m not crazy on - although it was also a year newer and had 15k less miles. blearyeyedboy said:
That's understandable after your experience.
Could you live with the shorter range of something like a Honda e? Or a Mini Electric? (I know it's a BMW brand, but still?)
Unfortunately no - as it is the i3 can only just handle my weekly ‘long trip’ into London (100ish miles on motorway). I was looking at EQAs too, but for some reason they’ve got rid of the premium plus model which is the one with all the kit I wanted Could you live with the shorter range of something like a Honda e? Or a Mini Electric? (I know it's a BMW brand, but still?)
SWoll said:
Best value performance EV for the minute is the Polestar 2. For < 50k you can order a new AWD LR with the performance upgrade to 480bhp, 0-60 of 4 seconds and 12 second 1/4 mile..
That is an excellent point I hadn’t considered. One tiny thing is the sunroof doesn’t open (opening sunroof is one of my must haves), but I thought it would be priced closer to the Model 3!Will book a test drive.
blearyeyedboy said:
^ That is a shame.
It seems there is a market for i3 type vehicles with just a *little* more range than a Mini or Honda e will give. Unfortunately, while there a chip/battery shortage there is a more lucrative market for upmarket vehicles with a bigger profit margin. Until that balance changes, I suspect that small BEVs with decent ranges will remain scarce.
Oi, Honda! Give us a Honda e with more range and people will pay you handsomely for the privilege!
Honestly I think it’s my weirdly specific criteria which are meaning I’m struggling (as outlined below):It seems there is a market for i3 type vehicles with just a *little* more range than a Mini or Honda e will give. Unfortunately, while there a chip/battery shortage there is a more lucrative market for upmarket vehicles with a bigger profit margin. Until that balance changes, I suspect that small BEVs with decent ranges will remain scarce.
Oi, Honda! Give us a Honda e with more range and people will pay you handsomely for the privilege! Must haves:
Physical buttons for climate controls OR separate screen as per e-tron / Q7
OPENING panoramic sunroof
Upgraded sound system
CarPlay
Seat memory
Keyless entry
Adaptive cruise control
Blind spot monitoring
Reversing camera / F/R parking sensors
(If staying electric) real world range over 150 miles at 80mph in winter
RWD or AWD
Strong wants:
None of those touch sensitive steering wheel buttons as per ID3, Q4
Button on steering wheel to fast forward tracks (I’m aware this is a bit crazy but not being able to do it on the i3 has been annoying!)
Rotary controller for central screen (like on the i3)
Multicolored interior lighting
Air suspension
Not to have to deal with BMW again!
Being real and having test drove the iX3, Q3, Q4 e-tron, a normal Q5, EQA, GLC and GLE I’m thinking the best option is a Q5 TFSIe or an SQ5. The iX3 has such a nice logically laid out interior, everything feels solid, and it meets all but 2 of my criteria - but my experience with the 2 dealers near me have been such a turnoff I’m 90% sure I wouldn’t go for one.
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