An interesting time to be a car fan?
Discussion
Putting aside all the chatter about range and being cohearsed into accepting EV's etc ..
Is this not quite an exciting time to be a car fan? After decades of steady progression it feels like something of a quantum leap has occurred in the last decade. Electrification of the powertrain is simplifying and improving so much about daily driving cars, and adding a few smiles at the same time.
We've gone from the comedy that was the G-whizz to cars that whisp along silently with several hundred horsepower. The ability to refuel at home and always start with a full 'tank' is a big deal in terms of lifestyle too.
Anyone else enjoying the rapid pace of change right now?
Is this not quite an exciting time to be a car fan? After decades of steady progression it feels like something of a quantum leap has occurred in the last decade. Electrification of the powertrain is simplifying and improving so much about daily driving cars, and adding a few smiles at the same time.
We've gone from the comedy that was the G-whizz to cars that whisp along silently with several hundred horsepower. The ability to refuel at home and always start with a full 'tank' is a big deal in terms of lifestyle too.
Anyone else enjoying the rapid pace of change right now?
I definitely think that the range of EV's at present is down to what types of car are easiest to design and package, and sell. That's why crossover and full size EV's are so prevalent.
But once those markets are well serviced and the bans are looming, we should see more 'fun' cars.
They will be stuck with very limited range in order to keep the weight down, at least until solid state cells are mainstream. But what's wrong with a fun car being impractical? If Mazda released an EV MX5 with just 100 miles range I think it'd sell. I'm sure they will release something along those lines too - it's either that or kill off one of their best selling cars.
But once those markets are well serviced and the bans are looming, we should see more 'fun' cars.
They will be stuck with very limited range in order to keep the weight down, at least until solid state cells are mainstream. But what's wrong with a fun car being impractical? If Mazda released an EV MX5 with just 100 miles range I think it'd sell. I'm sure they will release something along those lines too - it's either that or kill off one of their best selling cars.
plfrench said:
100% agree. Fascinating time of evolution to experience. The rate of change is going to be increasingly rapid as the manufacturer's are able to release themselves from the albatross of legacy ICE models they still have in their ranges now and can really focus 100% on EV development.
In my opinion, key opportunity areas that were naturally restricted with ICE will be packaging efficiency, aerodynamics & torque vectoring.
The biggest release and benefit over ICE has to be removing reliance on the multi-ratio gearbox. This, in conjunction with the flat torque curve of EV motors has made cars so much more responsive and smooth that they are just much better machines for everyday use.
Yes it is sad that the more interesting ICE cars are in their closing chapter, but I think this new chapter is going to be very interesting to watch and experience unfold.
On the torque vectoring point... Oh yes. Regen has forced manufacturers to develop very high tech fly by wire braking systems and the result of those as 'e-diffs' along with an EV's ability to precisely moderate torque from the motors is astonishing. My two plus tonne SUV is like a limpet, it defies everything I had come to expect from a car - and it isn't even intrusive, it's so subtle.In my opinion, key opportunity areas that were naturally restricted with ICE will be packaging efficiency, aerodynamics & torque vectoring.
The biggest release and benefit over ICE has to be removing reliance on the multi-ratio gearbox. This, in conjunction with the flat torque curve of EV motors has made cars so much more responsive and smooth that they are just much better machines for everyday use.
Yes it is sad that the more interesting ICE cars are in their closing chapter, but I think this new chapter is going to be very interesting to watch and experience unfold.
And on the packaging front, sure, batteries are heavy but it all lives on or beneath the axle centres. There is an argument that it's better to have more weight there than less weight in the form of ICE hovering above the front axle. I wouldn't want to track my car because it's weight would eventually be it's undoing - but on public roads you simply can't push so hard for it to be an issue.
EV has so far proven many of my original assumptions wrong. I was looking at EV with an ICE mindset and all I could see was the weight and range figures. It's very much a bridge you have to cross before it starts to make sense and you realise how much potential the simplified and entirely sub floor powertrain layout has to offer.
DMZ said:
There certainly was rapid change and I think Tesla did some remarkable things but at the moment it feels like we’re moving at a snail’s pace as EVs have become more mainstream. To me it seems like everyone is just trying to churn stuff out while there are incentives to tap into without really focusing on the experience a whole lot. Some of the best to drive EVs came out years ago.
I do like the fact that EVs exist and their zero emissions footprint. It is obviously impossible to argue against those benefits from an intellectual point of view vs driving around poisoning the surroundings. Maybe the rest isn’t so important at the end of the day.
I think the environmental benefits are great, but truth be told I'm more about the car itself. It's great if it's a little greener but mostly I just enjoy the superior drivetrain and convenience of EV as a daily.I do like the fact that EVs exist and their zero emissions footprint. It is obviously impossible to argue against those benefits from an intellectual point of view vs driving around poisoning the surroundings. Maybe the rest isn’t so important at the end of the day.
I agree its a bit dull right now watching each manufacturer in turn dish out essentially the same crossover or towncar as each other.. but they'll all look to more niche cars as the end of ICE draws closer. They have to.
I'd say in recent times BMW and Porsche are putting out the most interesting and fun new EV's.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sometimes the most satisfying thing is to have a comfortable and easy to drive car. A drivers car suggest more involvement is required which is great when you're blasting down a b-road for fun, but not so great in stop-start town traffic. The fun ICE car is also always costing you more to run, which is no fun if at least half the time you can't do anything fun with it.What I would say is that I agree with SWOLL right now, if I had that £100k budget - there would be a decent EV with plenty of gadgetry and tech, but there would also be a V8 M3.
But if the scenario was to choose just one car, it would be EV, specifically my iPace which is plenty fun to drive, almost unreasonably so given it's size and weight, but it's also a very relaxing and luxurious place to sit in traffic - surrounded with soft leather, breathing HEPA filtered air, listening to music on the 825w sound system and all whilst the car automatically follows the chain of traffic ahead. For the best of all worlds you need an EV, but it has to be a good one - not some plasticky piece of tut that ticks the 'EV' box but leaves all other boxes empty.
Terminator X said:
"Silent" how can you extract any joy from that.
TX.
Ask a deaf person if they ever find joy in the world?TX.
In terms of cars, we're used to sound validating the physical experience. There are other ways of getting that same validation though.
Cars that have immense and instant power are a different yet perfectly valid experience, and can be very fun. Once the weight issue is solved, they could be a lot more fun too.
OutInTheShed said:
TheDeuce said:
Terminator X said:
"Silent" how can you extract any joy from that.
TX.
Ask a deaf person if they ever find joy in the world?TX.
In terms of cars, we're used to sound validating the physical experience. There are other ways of getting that same validation though.
Cars that have immense and instant power are a different yet perfectly valid experience, and can be very fun. Once the weight issue is solved, they could be a lot more fun too.
Those who find thrills with things like mountain bikes, sailboards, kite surfing, racing dinghies, racing bikes, hang gliders and so on ....
Those who need loud exhausts and silly noises
One of my big regrets in motorcycling is I wish I'd adopted earplugs a lot sooner!
I love the feeling of energy that comes from a roaring engine/exhaust, and the mechanical feel of certain cars. But I think once you fully embrace newer tech you can find the same level but different type of appreciation for the way these newer machines go about the job of giving the driver the best overall weapon to pilot.
As I always say, if you're alive and hold a driving license today, you'll be dead before it becomes particularly difficult to drive the very best of ICE (or the best they ever get before game over) if you get the itch. Those that come after won't care either way, they'll be born with EV and learn about the previous in history lessons. And hopefully see them in the flesh at various events. The same as we see steam engines and have all sorts of emotions about them, but we wouldn't vote for their mainstream return - no matter how visceral they are compared to what killed them off.
gmaz said:
Terminator X said:
"Silent" how can you extract any joy from that.
TX.
There's probably less than 5% of cars on the road that sound interesting, and of those, less then 5% of their time moving is spent making a fun sound, e.g. accelerating through the gears.TX.
If you like the sound of a Peugeot diesel van idling, i.e. a typical common vehicle, then fine, go and listen to that.
ICE makes a very small % of cars great fun.
EV makes most cars more fun than ICE. It makes many cars a lot of fun too.
An affordable EV such as the e-Up, far more fun than the petrol and costs at least as little to own and run for a daily - along with all the other EV advantages.
A lot of EV's are crossovers and SUV's, a lot of people like such cars. The EVs are by far the best handling and fun though.
GT9 said:
Despite my stance on EVs, only a handful of them can raise my pulse. I'm actually quite conflicted in that I love old school petrol cars yet I've spent the best part of my career designing and developing technology to replace the old school.
I'm very aware that I come across as very dismissive of alternatives to EVs, notably hydrogen and synthetic fuels. There was time when these technologies did interest me, I suppose before it became feasible to mass produce fully electric cars. There was also a phase around 20 years ago when alternative engine technology was being promoted, either for direct propulsion, or for hybrid cars. Things like microturbines, and some weird and wonderful rotary and recip concepts.
With all of these things though, the excitement eventually gives way to the slow but unavoidable realisation that none of them have any hope of meeting the passenger car needs of a global population of billions and billions of people. In some respect, EVs arguably also fit that description. The difference being that they stand a far greater chance than anything else, and due to their massively higher efficiency, are undisputedly, the least worse choice.
My personal mission statement on this topic is probably best described as simply 'trying to save the car'. It just so happens that, to me, there is but one road left to achieve that. To answer the thread title then, yes, it is interesting. It will be interesting to see just how successful we are at overcoming the massive hurdles that exist to get the point where EVs are the saviour of the car, and that we can actually sustainably produce and operate hundreds of millions and maybe even a billion of them worldwide.
It will also be interesting to follow the progress of the alternatives, particularly fuel cell cars, to see what kind of market share they can actually attract, and if anything fundamentally changes that gives them a better look-in. Strangely, despite having probably the lowest possibility of getting any sort of look in (for the myriad of reasons I've vocally posted on that topic) I'm intrigued by what Toyota are doing with hydrogen ICE, my heart over head indulgence if you like.
Sure, it's an interesting time to be car fan, but I think it's also undeniably a somewhat concerning time too.
I must admit I do feel that it's a shame some in development ideas and technologies surrounding ICE never really got their day - and now will not.I'm very aware that I come across as very dismissive of alternatives to EVs, notably hydrogen and synthetic fuels. There was time when these technologies did interest me, I suppose before it became feasible to mass produce fully electric cars. There was also a phase around 20 years ago when alternative engine technology was being promoted, either for direct propulsion, or for hybrid cars. Things like microturbines, and some weird and wonderful rotary and recip concepts.
With all of these things though, the excitement eventually gives way to the slow but unavoidable realisation that none of them have any hope of meeting the passenger car needs of a global population of billions and billions of people. In some respect, EVs arguably also fit that description. The difference being that they stand a far greater chance than anything else, and due to their massively higher efficiency, are undisputedly, the least worse choice.
My personal mission statement on this topic is probably best described as simply 'trying to save the car'. It just so happens that, to me, there is but one road left to achieve that. To answer the thread title then, yes, it is interesting. It will be interesting to see just how successful we are at overcoming the massive hurdles that exist to get the point where EVs are the saviour of the car, and that we can actually sustainably produce and operate hundreds of millions and maybe even a billion of them worldwide.
It will also be interesting to follow the progress of the alternatives, particularly fuel cell cars, to see what kind of market share they can actually attract, and if anything fundamentally changes that gives them a better look-in. Strangely, despite having probably the lowest possibility of getting any sort of look in (for the myriad of reasons I've vocally posted on that topic) I'm intrigued by what Toyota are doing with hydrogen ICE, my heart over head indulgence if you like.
Sure, it's an interesting time to be car fan, but I think it's also undeniably a somewhat concerning time too.
Renault were making some great progress with 'modern' two stroke engines on the testbed a few years back, the idea being that an engine could become simpler and lighter whilst maintaining a competitive power output - it was all only possible because of the latest fabrication technologies allowed the precision required to make two stroke clean and efficient. I'm sure they've since had to drop it though, the ICE bans were moved forwards five years which must have shut down most such projects aimed at improving them for the future. There is no future in that direction now so...
I'm also sure at least some such projects were intended to be wheeled out in front of governments to justify hanging on to ICE a little longer, so long as it's ultra efficient etc.. But the governments mostly seem committed to a BEV future now and I think the politics and industry is now so far down that road, with billions of spending committed to it, that there is no practical way to change course.
And afterall, so far nothing beats the overall efficiency of BEV and if the only problem is getting enough cells produced, the answer becomes better and easier to produce cells.. and that's something that would benefit us all and the world at large beyond just cars, so it's not a bad thing to go chasing.
BorkBorkBork said:
gmaz said:
After driving an EV, the concept of an ICE just seems ridiculous:
Just to start the thing you need
1. A 12v battery
2. An electric motor
3. The engine itself
4. An electric motor wired backwards (alternator) to put the electricity back in the battery.
It has so many parasitic loads that take the energy from the engine before it gets anywhere near the wheels
1. Alternator
2. Oil pump
3. Fuel pump
4. Water pump
5. Radiator fan
6. Vacuum servo
7. Hydraulic power steering pump
An ICE is effectively an air pump with added explosions, but the air movement is restricted by
1. Air filter
2. EGR system
3. DPF
4. Catalytic converter
5. Resonator / back box
To create the explosions, you need to seal the cylinder using a valve spring. Have you ever tried to compress a valve spring? Imagine the energy required to compress one thousands of times a minute.
Likewise the fuel/air mixture has to be compressed 10:1 or more for diesel. That uses a vast amount of energy.
Then there's all the metal-on-metal friction of 100's of moving parts - piston rings, big end bearings, gears, camshafts on valve stems, all requiring oil, and all not quite fitting together until it is up to temperature.
Even stuff you've never heard of like "crankshaft windage" affects the energy loss.
I’ve often thought the same since the recent rebirth of the EV. It just seems absolutely potty that ICE has been with us so long. It’s so archaic in today’s world. Why manufacturers waited so long to revisit the EV is puzzling too. They really could, and should, have taken this technology seriously decades ago. Then who knows where we’d be now. Just to start the thing you need
1. A 12v battery
2. An electric motor
3. The engine itself
4. An electric motor wired backwards (alternator) to put the electricity back in the battery.
It has so many parasitic loads that take the energy from the engine before it gets anywhere near the wheels
1. Alternator
2. Oil pump
3. Fuel pump
4. Water pump
5. Radiator fan
6. Vacuum servo
7. Hydraulic power steering pump
An ICE is effectively an air pump with added explosions, but the air movement is restricted by
1. Air filter
2. EGR system
3. DPF
4. Catalytic converter
5. Resonator / back box
To create the explosions, you need to seal the cylinder using a valve spring. Have you ever tried to compress a valve spring? Imagine the energy required to compress one thousands of times a minute.
Likewise the fuel/air mixture has to be compressed 10:1 or more for diesel. That uses a vast amount of energy.
Then there's all the metal-on-metal friction of 100's of moving parts - piston rings, big end bearings, gears, camshafts on valve stems, all requiring oil, and all not quite fitting together until it is up to temperature.
Even stuff you've never heard of like "crankshaft windage" affects the energy loss.
Sure, for some car types ICE remains superior. But the fact that the whole car industry now has to go BEV will put further hundreds of billions into higher energy density batteries, which in turn will solve the weight and range issues.
And give us mobile phones we can charge in a few minutes that will last days.
This is a path we have to head down in order to solve the remaining issues - issues that for most drivers even today, aren't really an issue anyway.
SWoll said:
benny.c said:
I had an extended drive of my brother-in-law’s e-tron 55 the other day. I know it’s an SUV and not meant to be that exciting but by Christ it’s dull. Our crappy school run up! is ten times more entertaining to drive. Ditto the Hemi Grand Cherokee I had and even the tractor of a Wrangler I currently drive daily. I think I’m a dinosaur.
We've got one at the minute and if you're looking for excitement, entertainment or fun you're going to be out of luck I agree. Set your expectations for a 2500Kg Audi SUV more realistically though and it's an incredibly comfortable, refined, practical and well built car with a surprising turn of speed. Edited by benny.c on Monday 20th June 21:57
As a daily car that's exactly what we were looking for, but will admit I am finding myself increasingly drawn to the autotrader website looking for something to run alongside it that will sate my inner PH. The only thing stopping me for the minute is the high prices of used cars and the expectation that will change in the next 6-12 months.
This is deliberate though, there are different types of EV design philosophy for different types of driver demand. The etron is one of those EV's that seems to want the type of powertrain to be largely unnoticeable. You get all the EV benefits of course, and a decent bit of poke, but the car setup and design isn't at all focussed on making that power enjoyable in a dynamic 'fun' way.
The the iPace is more or less ground up designed to be as sporty as a crossover can reasonably be. But I suspect for every person that cares about that, there's another several people that would plump for the overall more practical etron or eqc!
Part of the expectation for EV cars to blow your socks off is definitely down to Tesla kickstarting the EV revolution with cars that were always marketed by how fast and sporty (in an American way..) they were. The reality is that whilst several EV's will put a smile on anyone's face, there are a lot more that just want to offer an electric alternative to the pretty standard, not fun cars that most people drive already.
Obviously, this is PH so a far higher % of this particular community does demand some fun from their car.
jamesbilluk said:
Certainly will be interesting to see where companies go from here. I'm sure now my next car will be an EV. As much as I love the Panamera, and the V6 sound, I find my self using it more and more using the EV mode alone, lovely and relaxing to drive! I would love a Taycan, but the prices don't agree with my wallet at the moment. I've been very tempted by an I - pace as well.
My ideal situation would be an EV as a daily driver, and something like the Morgan Super 3 for a weekend fun car (if I had the space of money)
I'll always put in a vote for the iPace, it's been fantastic! I just wish they'd do a hotter SVR version as I'll soon need to order another.. might go for the i4 M50 if not.My ideal situation would be an EV as a daily driver, and something like the Morgan Super 3 for a weekend fun car (if I had the space of money)
jamesbilluk said:
TheDeuce said:
I'll always put in a vote for the iPace, it's been fantastic! I just wish they'd do a hotter SVR version as I'll soon need to order another.. might go for the i4 M50 if not.
It does seem a great bit of kit, how long have you had yours for now? I imagine of I had a test drive, I would end up wanting one. Certainly that and the Taycan are the EVs tempting me out of ICE at the moment! You'd need a full day with it ideally. My first hour or so testing it I actually wasn't impressed because part of my head simply refused to accept such a car could be acceptable
ETA: it's obviously not on Taycan level but if you appreciate practicality and luxury along with sportiness, hard to beat.
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 21st June 19:07
jamesbilluk said:
TheDeuce said:
2 years and 20k. You definitely need a test drive because I don't think there's any other way of convincing a car person that a two plus tonne SUV can actually behave in a fun and sporty manner. It would fail quickly on a track but on the open road... It's insane how hard you can push it without it feeling flawed by size/weight. I'll probably get flamed on here for saying that...
You'd need a full day with it ideally. My first hour or so testing it I actually wasn't impressed because part of my head simply refused to accept such a car could be acceptable
ETA: it's obviously not on Taycan level but if you appreciate practicality and luxury along with sportiness, hard to beat.
That sounds great, plenty of time to get to know it then You'd need a full day with it ideally. My first hour or so testing it I actually wasn't impressed because part of my head simply refused to accept such a car could be acceptable
ETA: it's obviously not on Taycan level but if you appreciate practicality and luxury along with sportiness, hard to beat.
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 21st June 19:07
I may have to give one a go sometime! I've been watching quite a few reviews on it, they all seem very good! My brother's friend has one, they love it, saying it's not just a good electric car, bit a great car full stop.
Also as a ground up EV, and this is where I get back on topic, they were able to throw out the rule book in terms of car layout. Hence the wheels pushed right into each corner, the stubby bonnet, the batteries mounted as low as possible and a flat rear floor. At present a lot of EVs are either adapted ICE platforms or new platforms designed to accommodate electric AND ice powertrains. You can imagine the compromises.
I expect many more ground up EV platforms over the next few years - there has to be, the lifespan of being able to sell ICE cars is now close to being within the development time of a new platform.
Max_Torque said:
gmaz said:
I'd like to test that to see just how much torque is required. If what you're saying is true, it should be possible to turn a camshaft by hand using the camshaft pulley. I've never tried it, and I may be wrong, but I imagine it could not be done.
what? Think about it :-)Have you noticed when you change a cambelt that the cam wants to "jump" into another position when you take the belt off? because when free'd from the crank it will jump around and spin until the net clockwise and net counter clockwise forces are balanced. If you were strong enough to turn the cam by hand, you would indeed feel the load go up as the spring is compressed and then the cam will jump out of your hand and spin round as the spring pushes the cam round on the closing ramp
This causes what we call camtrain torsion vibration and is a major issue in cam drive design, however as mentioned the forces sum to very nearly zero so the overall power losses are small.
It's not a big win for ICE efficiency but its valid
OutInTheShed said:
TheDeuce said:
He's right. Friction aside the energy used to compress a spring is reclaimed when it exerts the same energy against the element that compressed it in the first place.
It's not a big win for ICE efficiency but its valid
You may reclaim a lot of the energy when you turn the camshaft slowly, but, at high RPM the springs are struggling to return the valves to their seats, traditionally springs are sized to just eliminate 'valve float' at max revs. So at cruising revs, maybe 2/3 of the energy might be recovered?It's not a big win for ICE efficiency but its valid
Personally the only cams and belts I touch are Ducati Desmo engines, which only have baby springs to back up the closing cams.
Even so, the effort to turn the cams seems significant in terms of the effort to turn the crank, but I'd not guess at any numbers.
The torque to generate 50psi with the oil pump probably matters too?
It's a spring.. other than friction you pretty much get out what you put into it overall!
The effort to turn the cams is significant because your arm can't reclaim the energy as it lurches forward after each quarter turn or whatever, and put that same energy into the next part turn. And the tolarances do mean that friction is a constant factor.
Yes the various ancillaries attached to any ICE all steal energy - and there's a fair few, which is one of the reasons they're not all that efficient. Hundreds of moving parts are never going to be efficient, every single one generates heat, noise, vibration. It's all wasted energy. A hermetically sealed electric motor straight through to an also sealed reduction box on to the axle is undeniably a better way to power the machine - if the challenge is to design the machine in the most efficient and logical manner.
OutInTheShed said:
TheDeuce said:
If a spring fails to fully return and doesn't feed that energy back into the cam, then roughly the same amount of energy lost is also saved the next time the cam compresses a not fully decompressed spring.
....r.
No, that's wrong, the spring has inertia and will be travelling towards the cam when the cam comes around again, increasing the force on the cam. If the spring hasn't caught up with the cam by then. Which it likely will have because the cam is maybe 120 degrees of opening and 240 degrees of base circle?....r.
I think there was an era of 2V pushrod engines where the valves were launched away from the cams at high RPM and a lot of 'lash' could actually be a good thing, up the point where it all got messy and expensive. Valve opening periods (angles) were less at lower RPM when the valves followed the cam profile closely, resulting in more low down grunt. There must be an art to getting that right!
I'm told that several manufacturers are working on less wasteful oil pumps.
Thinner oil to reduce viscous loss is a big thing.
Electric water pumps...
As for lower viscosity oil, that's all well and good. As is bio and synthetic fuel. But these things were explored to extend the life of ICE and they all make substantial improvements. But as I said, none of it can approach the efficiency of the simplified electric drivetrain and with the impending ICE bans, most such initiatives are losing momentum. You simply cannot have the complexity of all those moving parts and expect to compete on efficiency terms - you can make them 'more' efficient but never 'as' efficient as a machine that doesn't have the complexity in the first place.
OutInTheShed said:
granada203028 said:
Sony's development of the lithium ion battery was a game changer indeed but quite along time ago now and design has changed that much since.
Maybe solid state batteries will be another leap we will see. Batteries a much harder nut to crack than say Mores law for semiconductors where performance doubles every two years by just making the devices ever smaller to get more on the same chip for the same cost. Similarly the rapid progress in flat panel displays over the last 20 years.
Actually, vast amounts of research have gone into batteries and fuel cells over more than a century.Maybe solid state batteries will be another leap we will see. Batteries a much harder nut to crack than say Mores law for semiconductors where performance doubles every two years by just making the devices ever smaller to get more on the same chip for the same cost. Similarly the rapid progress in flat panel displays over the last 20 years.
Whoever eventually cracks the problem takes the entire world forward a leap and will make an unbelievable amount of money.
GT9 said:
Witchfinder said:
LasseV said:
https://www.apricalecars.com
Unveiled today in FOS. Hydrogen hypercar. Weight 1000kg. Customer delivery starts early 2024. British company.
LMAO, a fuel cell car... that also uses a battery. I wonder how long it can sustain performance before the fuel cell can't keep up. And of course, hydrogen is a joke when it comes to efficiency.Unveiled today in FOS. Hydrogen hypercar. Weight 1000kg. Customer delivery starts early 2024. British company.
Let's see if they are still in business at the end of next year.
Far better, if the tech really works, to convert a continent crossing truck to the tech at cost price as a showcase. If the prototype does its job and saves money along with the efficiency to blah about, job done.
OutInTheShed said:
LasseV said:
DMZ said:
Efficiency, funny. It's a 1,000+bhp supercar that weighs 1,000kg if we believe the stats and if it works. Nobody is going to care about efficiency much like nobody cares about the efficiency of a V12. The interesting bit is that it's not some 2,500kg EV bore fest. There might be some little bit of inkling of hope for more interesting cars if this thing is real.
That said, I'm not sure why one wouldn't just buy a V12 and enjoy the full fat zero hassle experience. There are a few of them within the £1.5m price after all.
Why? Because zero emission. It is the future of transportation.That said, I'm not sure why one wouldn't just buy a V12 and enjoy the full fat zero hassle experience. There are a few of them within the £1.5m price after all.
It might be zero tailpipe emission, but it's chronic overconsumption, lots of resources used to make something with very little function.
There might be some point to a dozen of them racing on a circuit, keeping lots of people entertained.
But on increasingly monitored public roads, I can see the market for these things shrinking to a point pretty soon.
But for as many years as I can remember people have gone on about over policed roads, no proper driving roads anymore etc..
All that has happened over the decades is cars have got progressively more powerful, and at a faster rate than they've got bloated. Today, anyone with a decent disposable income can buy a 1000hp+ car. In the world of EV, power is 'cheap', which why school mums with no real interest in cars other than wanting a 'green'(er) electric one are driving around with several hundred horsepower under their right foot.
Many EV's aren't fast because their target market demands it, they're fast simply because it doesn't cost very much more to make a fast one, so why not - it adds a little extra appeal. So big bhp has now become both cheap and casually accepted.
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