370z, BMW Z4M, or Cayman

[PhilUK]

I've narrowed my next car choice down to 3 options.

The 370Z, Z4M or the Cayman.

I'm aware that the Z4M is arguably the best car, but the age and mileage of the vehicles that are in my budget worry me a little. I will have approx £16K. The same reason why I'm a little bit weary of the Cayman, also the possibility of expensive parts. I can afford some repairs but would like to avoid it obviously, and the older the car the higher the risk can be.

I can get a 370Z for £13-15K and it'll be much newer than the other two with much lower mileage. It'll have similar service costs but it'll be a good 5-7 years younger. The Porsche and BMW will probably be 2006 to 2008 latest, the 370Z 2010-2013 are within my budget.


Could anyone give me some thoughts on what their choice would be and what kind of common faults the 370Z can develop?

Thanks.

[PhilUK]

CX53 said:

I would go for the 370z for the advantages you've said + Nissan reliability.

If it really was money no option with running costs it would probably be the Porsche for me though.

I haven't driven one yet. I'll take one for a test drive, are they considered good cars to drive? I'd love to take a good roadster to the alps next year!

[PhilUK]

Bump!

[PhilUK]

Over over under steer said:

This is followed by the Z4M - this will also be a better investment in the long term. By the sounds of it you have £17k to spend and not £17k to lose, so this would make a lot of sense.

Do you mean they're more reliable? It's just I'd be getting quite an old car by todays standards.

[PhilUK]

Siy said:

surprised you would suggest the BMW is better than the Cayman - but equally happy to hear that, as I have just bought a 2013 Z4 35is ... havent got it yet, will be 10 days or so till prepped and delivered - you have the beauty of hard top rather than soft top.... and they do appear quite nice on the inside!

Edited by Siy on Wednesday 24th February 15:10

Well, as far as I'm aware it's the quickest and most nimble out of the two with an award winning 3.2L straight 6 engine, the 2006 onward ones anyway. I don't know about your model, you'd have to compare it to the 2.7L Cayman I'd guess.

I'm only going on what I've read anyway. I've not test driven any of these cars and I'm trying to narrow my choices down. I'm really thinking about the Z4M or the 370Z for a few reasons. The Cayman is a possibility but might be a bit too posh for my liking.

[PhilUK]

w1ntermut3 said:

You won't get anywhere near a 2009 cayman.2 for 15-16 - I've been looking for a while and had no luck. You can get the older 2.7 without any options and about 55-65 on the clock or an 3.4S with a gamble on bore scoring.

Neither will you get a very low mileage Z4M coupe - I assume if you were ok with a roadster you'd be looking at boxsters also? Be warned - if it's for your DD lots of people seem to find the Z4M's a bit crashy - great for a sunday drive but possibly not for you day in day out? Drive one?

Can't speak for a 370 so I' won;t.


If you'd consider other options; you could get a slightly bork-ier e92 m3 or rs4 for 15-16? If you want to go full bork, you could buy an M5 or M6 (with balls of steel)? A 996 would also fit similarly but be reasonably mid-higher mileage which would be pretty reliable (minus wear+tear bits). Gt85 / BRZ and probably enough money to supercharge? Or spend a good chunk less into an e46 M3 - I'm not trying to tell you you're looking for the wrong car here at all, just offering up thoughts based on what's available.

In this price bracket, the only other fast things are ex-boy-racer stuff with a lot less special factor and class.

Yea, I'd be looking for a 2006, 2007 Cayman. Not 100% on the Boxster styling. Plus all people keep saying to me is 'Poor mans Porsche' which I know is nonsense, but it would get annoying to hear all the time. I couldn't afford the insurance on a supercharged car. The M5 is a bit to big and the older M3 looks a little too boxy for my liking. The TTS is another I'm looking at. But I think that really it's down to the Z4M or the 370Z. I guess the choice will be made by whether I want a car that's over 10 years old. I do quite like the look of the 370Z. They're meant to be well made, powerful and fun to drive but the Z4 looks really nice and is meant to be a great car, but my budget would only allow an older one.

These two Z4M's are around my budget with decent mileage.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

I've also seen ones with 40K for around £15,000.

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 15:38

[PhilUK]

w1ntermut3 said:

4M Coupe

Everything else you listed was a coupe - I assumed you wanted the Z in coupe also. Personally, I hate the look of the Z4 in roadster format but think it's stunning in coupe format.

Would you consider a boxster?

Well, I'd prefer the coupe, but if I'm going for the better car I'd happily take the roadster, but you're right, it's not as nice as the coupe. Boxster is complicated. I'd prefer the Cayman, and the Boxsters would be a similar year within my budget and would have similar issues wouldn't it? Don't they have the same engines?

This one here is just out of budget. But with some haggling and patience and another grand perhaps I could get lucky. It is considerably older than what I could get a 370Z for less with, and it's at the upper end of the mileage I'd prefer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4M-3-2-340-BHP-M-CO...

I think a 2009 Boxster might just be out of my budget, but I could stretch to another grand but it would have to be the Boxster S 3.4. Also I don't think I could deal with people saying stupid things about them.

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 15:49

[PhilUK]

w1ntermut3 said:

There's a lot of info on the Porsche forum and on specialist owners forums, but it basically comes down to: Ignore the worries about IMS because the failures are few and far between. All engines can suffer from bore scoring but from dealer experience 95% of the time it's from 3.4s's (and often automatics) - however, weighed against that is that they sold more 3.4's. I think you'll just find a lot more boxsters to choose from around this era so it might be easier to a) find a peach and b) you'd be happier with the 2.7 because you've already made the decision to go for fun factor rather than HARDCORE DRIVER factor - if that makes sense.

You can get the bores scoped for a price at a porsche dealership, but obviously you'd have to factor this in.

The cheapest z4mc in reasonable mileage form (and not cat D e.t.c) come in a smidge under 17k. So a good chunk more. You could get a 60k e92 m3 coupe in manual for this, just for comparison.

Did you consider the e46 m3? Same engine as the 4mc? (but not as pretty obv).

I wouldn't get the 2.7. I'd want the full package if I'm honest and I'm not 100%. See the post above, I amended the post to include an example of a Z4M. Here it is.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4M-3-2-340-BHP-M-CO...

I haven't considered the M3 because its styling isn't to my liking at all. I just don't like the boxiness of it. I kinda like hot hatches and coupes/roadsters so the M3 just looks a bit saloony for my tastes.

I'm thinking that the 370Z is newer, similar power, V6, lower mileage, reliable. But the Z4M is the better car, but will be considerably older and more expensive. That's what I'm weighing up.

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 15:58

[PhilUK]

w1ntermut3 said:

3000 miles and a grand less?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4M-3-2-340-BHP-M-CO...

Red leather is a winner!

Well then if you're set on the 3.4 it would be advisable to have a bork fund for the bore-scoring. Read around - start with http://juansolo.co.uk/motas/porker13.html.

Edited by w1ntermut3 on Wednesday 24th February 15:58

That's why I wouldn't be looking at the older ones, and I may find them a bit risky. Although I'm aware that if they haven't gone wrong before 50k, they may not go wrong. I'm just not sure on the Boxster, I'd prefer the Cayman, and the 2.7 would be a little bit of a compromise that I might regret when looking at the 3.4. It's more of an option than anything else.

What do you mean by 3000 miles and a grand less?

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 16:05

[PhilUK]

Over over under steer said:

Not more reliable, but probably similar to the Porsche in running costs. The Nissan should be the cheapest to run but you really have to offset that against depreciation. The Nissan will depreciate the fastest, followed by the Cayman, however I can see the Z4M appreciating. If you buy well, and get a well looked after example, be a good person and do the usual preventative maintenance then you should be fine in the Z4M..

That's a good point. It's just a bit over budget and older. It's a big decision.

[PhilUK]

Siy]hilUK said:

Well, as far as I'm aware it's the quickest and most nimble out of the two with an award winning 3.2L straight 6 engine, the 2006 onward ones anyway. I don't know about your model, you'd have to compare it to the 2.7L Cayman I'd guess.

The Z4 35is Roadster has a 0-60 of 4.8 as opposed to the Z4M's 5.0 - its also a twin turbo which is easily map'able - if taht's your thing? plus you have the best of both worlds with the hard top / no top!

Totally out of my budget! But thanks!

[PhilUK]

Okay. Some good points. But I would like a bit of a bigger engine. I know they don't compete, but I have a Focus ST mapped to 260ish. I think I'd notice the power difference if I dropped to something with less, and that would disappoint.

Does no one recommend the 370Z then? Are they not good cars?

[PhilUK]

Over over under steer said:

Almost like apples and oranges. The power delivery will make the Focus feel almost faster than the S in day to day driving. You're going small capacity 4 pots with a blower to larger capacity 6 pots nasp. Your driving style will change to suit that. None of the cars mentioned are about big power figures, but more about chasing the revs and using the power, not the torque.

Honestly, try a few and you'll understand what I mean. You'll adjust in no time and they will all feel fantastic!

5 cylinder! I don't know, but the 370Z has more torque, faster 0-60, faster 1/4 mile etc. Surely it'll feel quicker? Or is it because the ST has turbo that it delivers the power quicker?

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 17:38

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 17:40

[PhilUK]

Toltec said:

How about trying a Cayman at the Porsche experience? Might help you decide if a Cayman is what you want.

Yea, I might do that. I'll have to wear my best clothes going into a Porsche garage.

Maybe I should explain my requirements when upgrading.

I have a Focus ST MK2 remapped to around 260. I plan to upgrade my car later this year or early on, so I'm looking for the car now so that I can start saving for it. I want something with more torque, more stylish, quicker and better handling. I don't want to feel like the car lacks when I'm spending 3x the amount of my last one. I want an upgrade in every way. My budget is around £15-17k.

Will these cars feel slower because they're NA? Will the ST feel quicker even though the other cars have a higher lb/torque and bhp? If I want that kind of torque, should I be looking for a car with a turbo?

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 18:11

[PhilUK]

sebhaque said:

I used to own a 370Z and loved it. There's a bit of a writeup in my My Garage section on my profile about the Nissan, but for the purposes of the thread I can weigh in with a few of the common issues with them.

The Z replaced an M6 so I probably didn't appreciate the acceleration as much - however what I would say is that it's very smooth and predictable, with plenty of power low down. It never felt slow, in fact the performance is probably pretty comparable to the Z4M. The Nissan doesn't sound as good as the Z4M out of the box (strangely enough, the S54 in the Z4M also sounds a little more muted than its placement in the E46 M3) but by adding an aftermarket exhaust the car is much, much better.

In terms of common faults, if you push the car hard then you'll likely experience high oil temperatures. An aftermarket oil cooler is a very common mod, particularly for Z owners in the US where it's warmer than it gets here. After a couple of laps on track on a very warm summer's day, my oil temps were north of 140C, and on a spirited drive around Wales a friend's 370Z overheated, whereas the rest of us in an MX-5 and S2000 were happily chugging along.

Clutches on the Z also don't last too long, and this can be exacerbated if you start modifying the car. Mine was starting to slip slightly as I got rid of the car (it had done about 26k, 10k of which was on a new clutch), I'd imagine the rev-matching feature knocks a bit of life off the clutch. Fantastically nifty feature though, I'd almost recommend the 370Z for that alone.

I also had a problem with one of the engine sensors, it'd send the car into limp mode which meant I had to get it recovered to a garage. It wasn't a particularly expensive fix, but a bit of a pain. They're not common failures, but certainly not unheard of. Nothing else went wrong with mine while I had it. I used to use Kaizer Motor in Southampton, it's a bit of a way to travel (I lived in Bristol at the time) but Sly really knows his way around Zs and GT-Rs.

Another thing to bear in mind with the 370Z - the tyres are pretty thin and offer next to no kerb protection, so as a result it's a very easy car to kerb. Since the rear wheels are on a slightly wider track they're normally the ones that get clobbered. I put a nick in one of my wheels within a few weeks of owning it, wasn't a problem as within a day of driving it the girl I was seeing had kerbed all four.

Another little niggle are the alarm sensors, if you leave the door-mounted air vents open on a windy day, sometimes the alarm can be triggered. Finally, the wing mirrors are enormous and can be difficult to see past, which can be awkward at roundabouts when you're trying to see if there's a car on your right.

In all honesty though, the 370Z is a fantastic machine and I do think they're quite underrated. I would have no hestitation in recommending you buy one over a Z4M or Cayman - having previously owned a 911 and M3 too, I do think the 370Z is the best at what it does - if I needed rear seats I'd obviously have one of the others, but in your selection, I'd pick the 370Z.

HTH

Thanks for the detailed post. I appreciate it. I guess that what I'm a little bit concerned with is that I've always had cars with turbos. And I'm realising that they won't have the torque that I'm used to. All the routes and roads I like are kinda mid speed roads. Lots of bends and stuff, and I ride sports bikes, so torque is kind of what I'm used to and what I like. I'm concerned that the 370Z will just feel a lot slower, and that would disappoint me a lot. :/ What do you think?

I'm wondering if maybe I should be looking at a newer ST and to remap it, or get a Megane 265 and do the same. The Audi TTS would be the ideal car in this situation. I really have to drive the others to feel what the power delivery is like, but I really do love that 'pushing you to the back of the seat' feeling.

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 19:15

[PhilUK]

sebhaque said:

The N/A cars still have plenty of torque to offer, but what you're probably used to in a turbo is it all arriving in a big lump. Have you considered cars like the Impreza or Evo? Again, having had both, the Impreza STi would be top of the pile for me. Your budget puts you in a good selection of well-cared for examples of the rally-esque cars.

In terms of the subject 3 cars, none of them will give you that aggressive shove like a turbo does, but the power's a lot more useable - i.e. you can amble along at half throttle and make reasonable progress, then turn the wick up if you want more. It took me a while to get used to the lack of turbo lag when I sold my Subaru, and very much welcomed it back when I bought my Evo later. If that's the kind of thing you're after, then I haven't had more fun getting thumped around by a turbo than in one of those two. Unfortunately I've never owned an ST or a Megane - I did have a V6 TT but I didn't really like that - but having passengered in an ST, the turbo lag from the Japanese cars is definitely more aggressive.

I don't like the look of the Impreza, but this has caught my eye.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2010-10-MITSUBISHI-EVO-X...

But I'm not 100% sure I like it more than the TTS, which would be top of my list for a car with a turbo. What do you think?

[PhilUK]

sebhaque said:

Purely subjective buddy as I'm not a big fan of the TTs, nothing wrong with them but personally I prefer the Jap stuff. The Evo will probably be cheaper to maintain than the TTS, and I'd imagine the 60bhp/60lbft of torque extra in the Evo will give you an even better shove in your seat. Practicaility notwithstanding, you also see fewer Evos on the road than you do TTs, so there's a bit of a rarity factor.

In fairness, I could go on for paragraphs about how I prefer the Evo to a TTS, but this is your car so it's down to what you want. Your head's given you the budget - your heart seems to be set on a TTS if it's a turbo you want. You'd have to double-check with a TTS owner, but I think the turbo's quite quiet on a TTS, whereas the Evo's turbo makes a couple of lovely sounds.

A little test I did before I bought a car (think it was the 911) was to write down the things I really wanted from a car on a bit of paper - I had performance, sound, engine size, aspiration etc all written down. I then looked at my budget and listed the car I most wanted in that category (e.g. for performance I had M6, for sound I had 911, engine size was M6, aspiration was an Impreza). I then prioritised each category - so I preferred a better sounding car than a quicker one. The long and short of it was that the 911 came out on top at the time, so I bought one. Funnily enough I replaced it after a few years with an M6, which was a close second position when I made my decision.

Well, the Evo is another option, so thank you for that. Again, I think it's a little bit loud for my liking, or maybe loud in the wrong way for my tastes. The spoiler, the hood etc. I'm not sure I'd feel entirely comfortable in it and picking up people who would also find it a little loud. It's a complex issue. What is obviously a great car just doesn't look the part!

I could always get an exhaust to compensate for a quiet turbo!

I have no idea what to get. I'm kinda torn between turbo and NA, the TTS vs the 370Z/Cayman. As said before, a good dilemma to have!

[PhilUK]

w1ntermut3 said:

I still think I'd find an m6 persuasive in this bracket, even if it is a heavy ass gt cruiser.

Bit out of my budget, and the only ones that are in budget are 2006, higher mileage. Unless you have something to show me. The insurance is a bit high really.

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 21:35

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 21:36

[PhilUK]

Shaoxter said:

Z4M Coupe is definitely the investor's choice.
You need to get the chip off your shoulder re the Cayman, none of the 911 owners I've been around have referred to it as a poor man's Porsche, and Porsche owners don't all wear expensive clothes either.
A 370Z might be a newer car but it will depreciate like a brick.

Out of those you've listed the Z4MC gets my vote, main reason being it looks awesome (especially on CSL wheels)! The Cayman might be the most balanced and driver focused car but the non-bore score 2.7 might feel a little underpowered.

The Boxster, you mean. I have a friend with a 911 who called it that just the other day, he called the Cayman the best in the range. No chip on my shoulder, I'd just rather not deal with other peoples ignorance and have to defend it all the time, I'm aware it's meant to be an awesome car and it is under consideration. And the 'expensive clothes' thing was a joke. I'll go down there in jeans, a t-shirt and some old vans, cool?

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 21:45

Edited by PhilUK on Wednesday 24th February 21:48

[PhilUK]

Thanks for the info

It's definitely on the list, I'll have to test drive it as I'm a bit concerned about the lack of turbo, but it might be fine.