Fun face off: Audi S4 (B8) vs BMW Z4 Coupe
Discussion
I’ve always loved the idea of a three-car garage and had I the money or space, I’d probably end up with an Audi S4 Avant S Tronic (B8.5), BMW Z4 Coupe and a Honda Integra DC2.
However, sadly I have neither cash nor space right now! So, I have been considering getting a second car to go with my Legacy 3.0 Spec B estate, with the Z4 Coupe topping the list for excitement, usability and style.
However, two sets of road tax, insurance and servicing feels a bit wasteful to me. Hence, I’m wondering whether a manual Audi S4 (B8) saloon could offer 90% of the fun of the Z4 and much of the practicality of the Legacy (probably not the Avant, as if I have one car I want it to be manual and manual Avants cost £200 more per year to tax and are heavier and slower...)
So, has anyone driven both S4 and Z4 - if so, how do they compare? Yes, the Z4 is a sports car and the S4 isn’t, but it sounds like it’s less than perfect for UK roads with over-stiff suspension and imperfect steering, while the S4 is bigger and heavier but potentially better set up for the UK.
I’d happily have both, but since that isn’t possible right now, is the S4 a good one-car alternative?
Thanks.
However, sadly I have neither cash nor space right now! So, I have been considering getting a second car to go with my Legacy 3.0 Spec B estate, with the Z4 Coupe topping the list for excitement, usability and style.
However, two sets of road tax, insurance and servicing feels a bit wasteful to me. Hence, I’m wondering whether a manual Audi S4 (B8) saloon could offer 90% of the fun of the Z4 and much of the practicality of the Legacy (probably not the Avant, as if I have one car I want it to be manual and manual Avants cost £200 more per year to tax and are heavier and slower...)
So, has anyone driven both S4 and Z4 - if so, how do they compare? Yes, the Z4 is a sports car and the S4 isn’t, but it sounds like it’s less than perfect for UK roads with over-stiff suspension and imperfect steering, while the S4 is bigger and heavier but potentially better set up for the UK.
I’d happily have both, but since that isn’t possible right now, is the S4 a good one-car alternative?
Thanks.
ZX10R NIN said:
They don't compare the Z4 will be a better steer despite it's short comings the S4 can be enjoyable with some chassis work, but there is a worthy alternative that as a steer is on par with the S4.
Take a look at the Insignia VXR they're an underrated steer & a simple map really turns them into a proper performance car, it's not the extra bhp but the torque that helps them seem more cohesive (because Vauxhall decided to take the torque away to make it feel more like an N/A) again a bit of chassis work will release a bit more fun but in all reality neither will get close to a 370z (which is my pick over a Z4) in terms of fun.
Saying that it doesn't mean you can't have fun with them.
Have read that the sport differential is key to S4 driving well, but very few have this. Do wonder how plausible it is to get one fitted.Take a look at the Insignia VXR they're an underrated steer & a simple map really turns them into a proper performance car, it's not the extra bhp but the torque that helps them seem more cohesive (because Vauxhall decided to take the torque away to make it feel more like an N/A) again a bit of chassis work will release a bit more fun but in all reality neither will get close to a 370z (which is my pick over a Z4) in terms of fun.
Saying that it doesn't mean you can't have fun with them.
Watched the Fifth Gear track test with the S4 and the Insignia; the Vauxhall came across well, but Audi seemed better all around. They are quite cheap but top tax band if I remember rightly, which isn’t ideal, and something like 300kg more than my Legacy, I think, which is bonkers.
Not a turbo fan, but might see if I try one out, though. Tiff seemed quite enamoured with it.
Mr Tidy said:
I've no experience of an S4, but have plenty with Z4 Coupes!
I can't help thinking an S4 might feel too similar to your Subaru in many ways, with 4 doors, AWD, etc.
I ran two 3.0Si Z4 Coupes for over 5 years alongside a few dailies - E46 325ti Compact, E91 325i Touring and E90 330i Saloon. And despite some chassis short-comings (that can be improved with new springs and dampers and non run-flat tyres) the Z4 Coupes always felt like a sports car, whereas the various 3 series just didn't. Maybe partly because you sit low and just in front of the rear wheels, but the Z4s just felt special instead of capable.
Then in December I bought a Z4M Coupe and it's in a different league altogether! If one of those might be in budget I'd recommend trying one, but be prepared to want one.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Well, in most ways I love the Subaru, so that’s no bad thing! I just wish it were a little torquier/quicker and a bit plusher inside. I can't help thinking an S4 might feel too similar to your Subaru in many ways, with 4 doors, AWD, etc.
I ran two 3.0Si Z4 Coupes for over 5 years alongside a few dailies - E46 325ti Compact, E91 325i Touring and E90 330i Saloon. And despite some chassis short-comings (that can be improved with new springs and dampers and non run-flat tyres) the Z4 Coupes always felt like a sports car, whereas the various 3 series just didn't. Maybe partly because you sit low and just in front of the rear wheels, but the Z4s just felt special instead of capable.
Then in December I bought a Z4M Coupe and it's in a different league altogether! If one of those might be in budget I'd recommend trying one, but be prepared to want one.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
I bought it for practicality following a house purchase, it’s been incredibly useful and I like it a lot more than I thought - it drives incredibly well for a 2005 estate. An S4, however, would cover the upmarket and power bases a bit better in one car. Or I simply keep the Legacy and get a Z4 for dedicated sports car fun...
I’m sure the Legacy and Z4 would cover more bases better, I just don’t really want two sets of running costs with a new mortgage, ideally, hence then S4 idea.
I always liked the low driving position of my 130is, so the Z4 appeals here. I’ve just always been put off by the cheap interiors, ugly, fat steering wheel connected to electric steering and dials that look like they come from a computer game. Funnily enough, I used to love the look and dials of the Z4 M, but very much sold on lighter, purer 3.0 Si now.
Think this probably requires a back-to back drive; know I like the Audi interior and not the BMW one, but have never driven either, so it’s down to the feel...
Shifter1 said:
I always found the Z4 coupe interesting. It's a nice alternative to a Nissan Z or even a Porsche. I agree that they are indeed special. I guess it's easy in this current environment where sports cars are so rare.
What I could never get past is the styling. I wish Bangle had not have his way with it. I can even forgive the blend steering. But I can't forgive the styling. It's funny because I should love it, as it has all the elements I love. Coupe, slopping roof, long bonnet. But the lines just doesn't do it for me in the way an AMG GT for example does. Real pity as the Z4 coupe is the definitive affordable special sports car. A Z car is just not special enough, a Porsche way too boring and common and a AMG GT is expensive.
That special and unusual factor is one of the selling points for the Z4 for me. What I could never get past is the styling. I wish Bangle had not have his way with it. I can even forgive the blend steering. But I can't forgive the styling. It's funny because I should love it, as it has all the elements I love. Coupe, slopping roof, long bonnet. But the lines just doesn't do it for me in the way an AMG GT for example does. Real pity as the Z4 coupe is the definitive affordable special sports car. A Z car is just not special enough, a Porsche way too boring and common and a AMG GT is expensive.
Definitely appeals in a way the 350Z doesn’t and over the Porsche, despite that being better in several ways.
Funnily enough, I absolutely love the looks of the Z4, but find the AMG, bulky, graceless and ugly! It’s the interior quality and design that makes me hesitate. The ones I’ve sat in feel cheap and a little heavy handed compared even with the 1 Series interior in my eyes. A small thing for a sports car, but a surprisingly irritating one for me...
ZX10R NIN said:
I'm not sure what your budget is but have you tried a 370Z?
Nope. Always struck me as thirsty, heavy and high-taxy. Did toy with the idea of the 350Z, but has similar issues compared with Z4. Oddly some people rave about the Nissan and others hate it; never knew a Nissan could be so divisive!
Raddors said:
Interesting conundrum to have!
I've got a S4 manual avant, Im not sure of exact figures but most websites have the avants either the same or +0.1s of a manual saloon 0-60 but yes it does come at the tax cost. I've driven both and my avant certainly didn't feel any slower.
Interestingly though I had it on the rollers at MRC recently and it was at 349bhp so about 20 up on the book figures (it is completely standard) and they reckon this is not uncommon on the manuals and various tests (inc. road and track) have clocked them under 5s to 60.
Tell me about it. Weighing up completely different cars is always tricky!I've got a S4 manual avant, Im not sure of exact figures but most websites have the avants either the same or +0.1s of a manual saloon 0-60 but yes it does come at the tax cost. I've driven both and my avant certainly didn't feel any slower.
Interestingly though I had it on the rollers at MRC recently and it was at 349bhp so about 20 up on the book figures (it is completely standard) and they reckon this is not uncommon on the manuals and various tests (inc. road and track) have clocked them under 5s to 60.
The Avant is more than fast enough, it's mainly the tax that puts me off. Don't reeeeally need an estate and would be nice to have something a little lighter...
Sounds like your car lives up to the VAG stereotype of being underrated power-wise. Fine by me! Motorweek in the US has a good manual S4 video - think that was 4.9 secs to 60mph.
browna said:
im in a similar conundrum, im considering either a family estate/hatch (civic/volvo, even a campervan!) and a z4/mr2 mk3, or going for a compromise do everything car which either wont be big enough for the family (mk2 focus ST), or exciting enough for me (Octavia vrs). either way I need something with 5/6 cylinders, lol
an S4 is just out of my budget and sounds almost ideal, but I might have to stretch if I cant find another do it all car. (I just cant bring my self to like the VXR)
could you go for the pricey S4 now as an only car, then in a couple of years save up and if you get bored pick up a cheap second car like MR2/Z4 for a few grand? which is what ill prob end up doing until we get a house move sorted..
May I recommend a Subaru Legacy Spec B as a fast, cheap, enjoyable six-pot estate!an S4 is just out of my budget and sounds almost ideal, but I might have to stretch if I cant find another do it all car. (I just cant bring my self to like the VXR)
could you go for the pricey S4 now as an only car, then in a couple of years save up and if you get bored pick up a cheap second car like MR2/Z4 for a few grand? which is what ill prob end up doing until we get a house move sorted..
Edited by browna on Friday 14th February 10:45
My logic is that if I have only one car I can afford to spend a bit more on it, since there's only one set of running costs.
I think that makes sense. Save up a bit for an S4 saloon, sell Legacy and then see whether I still have Z4 cravings or if S4 is good enough to compensate.
I hear what you're saying. As good as VXR probably is, I just don't want one. I'd rather keep Subaru, the more I think about doing that.
Annoyingly I've found a practically perfect S4 fir me now. Just not in a position to buy one for a few months. Doh.
Shifter1 said:
Not sure if serious. But for the record I prefer the styling of the Crossfire over the Z4 coupe in many ways and from many angles. I think what kills the Crossfire a bit is the Chrysler grill.
Was being facetious, but it does have a couple of plus points. Pretty cheap, too.Mr Tidy said:
But a Spec B will only ever be a fast, cheap, six-pot but with £500+ a year road tax post 2006 whereas my daily 330i (E90, but could be E91) is possibly quicker and "only" £325 for road tax.
I sort of don't mind paying £570 for road tax for my Z4MC - it's way quicker than any 370Z!
True, but that’s not a problem if you go pre-06; mine’s a 55-plate and £325 to tax.I sort of don't mind paying £570 for road tax for my Z4MC - it's way quicker than any 370Z!
Surprised to say that despite the 3.0-litre in my 130i being muscular and smooth, the Legacy engine is actually noticeably smoother, more revvy and sounds better.
Am sure 330i is a bit faster - mainly due to more of the torque being at particularly low revs, but the Subaru is still an impressive thing. Handles better than my 130is, too, which never fails to surprise me.
TameRacingDriver said:
Totally agree, the Z4C was the best looking car I’ve ever owned. Drop dead gorgeous. They’re really cheap now too. When I had mine a manual wasn’t possible for under 10K, now they’re 5K! This was only about 3 or 4 years ago too. I really thought they would have held their values better than they have. Almost tempted to get another!
Like the idea of both 350Z and Z4. Z4 looks that bit more special and isn’t so thirsty, though, so that seals it for me.Have been trying to second guess what will happen to values for Z4s over the next year or two - it’s hard to know but even if they go up a bit, they shouldn’t go up by more than the running costs I’d have saved by not having one for that time...
Just hope that if I get an S4 in a few months’ time and save up for a Z4 Coupe that they won’t have suddenly doubled in price!
Mr Tidy said:
Well looks are always a matter of opinion, but I think Z4 Coupes look fantastic. Although as I'm on my 3rd I probably would say that!
I bought my 1st 3.0Si Coupe in 2014 and sold it for £400 more than I paid in 2016.
As I realised what I had done I bought my 2nd 3.0Si for £8,600 a couple of days later. But the last year values seem to have dropped considerably and I had it advertised for £6,600 and sold it a week ago.
Partly because it isn't the best time of year to sell a 2 seater, but also because I needed to get some money back as I bought my M Coupe in December!
It was advertised for £14K but I got a deal because Christmas was only a week away. It's only done 76K miles, so any that are £18-20K should be much less-used examples.
There may be quicker hot hatches these days, but they just don't appeal to me - they still look like an A3, Golf, etc.
While there are loads of BMWs around, only just over 2,000 three litre Coupes were registered in the UK and less than 600 M Coupes, and they don't exactly look like any other BMW!
I can appreciate an S4 may be quicker and much more practical but for a fun car I'd much rather have a Z4MC, although I realise others may not.
Anyway I'm obviously a fan of the Z4 Coupe, so I might as well post a photo of my latest and look for my tin hat!
Always liked the standard Z4 M alloys, but those ones look very sharp. Good colour for the Z4, too.I bought my 1st 3.0Si Coupe in 2014 and sold it for £400 more than I paid in 2016.
As I realised what I had done I bought my 2nd 3.0Si for £8,600 a couple of days later. But the last year values seem to have dropped considerably and I had it advertised for £6,600 and sold it a week ago.
Partly because it isn't the best time of year to sell a 2 seater, but also because I needed to get some money back as I bought my M Coupe in December!
It was advertised for £14K but I got a deal because Christmas was only a week away. It's only done 76K miles, so any that are £18-20K should be much less-used examples.
There may be quicker hot hatches these days, but they just don't appeal to me - they still look like an A3, Golf, etc.
While there are loads of BMWs around, only just over 2,000 three litre Coupes were registered in the UK and less than 600 M Coupes, and they don't exactly look like any other BMW!
I can appreciate an S4 may be quicker and much more practical but for a fun car I'd much rather have a Z4MC, although I realise others may not.
Anyway I'm obviously a fan of the Z4 Coupe, so I might as well post a photo of my latest and look for my tin hat!
Realise the Z4 will offer a very different feel to the S4, with the massive bonnet, seats right in front of the rear axle etc. Since I need a somewhat practical car, though, will aim to replace the Legacy with an S4 in a couple of months and only then drive a Z4 and see if I have to have one as a fun car.
Hopefully if I do get one, I’ll be able to buy at this time of year when prices are low...
Mr Tidy said:
Thanks, the wheels are 19" CSL Replicas based on the E46 M3 CSL wheels.
If you need practical a Z4M really isn't going to work, but if you can live with the looks an E9* 335i with a remap might be worth considering.
I've had a couple of E46s, an E87, E91, E90 and 3 E86s - and the E86s just feel so special compared to the others!
Well, no, a Z4 wouldn't work as an only car for me! And as much as I like the 3 Series, I don't really want an E92. If you need practical a Z4M really isn't going to work, but if you can live with the looks an E9* 335i with a remap might be worth considering.
I've had a couple of E46s, an E87, E91, E90 and 3 E86s - and the E86s just feel so special compared to the others!
Not a turbo fan, so probably wouldn't go for 335i anyway, but think 330i would be disappointing having got used to that engine in the much lighter 1 Series.
Had a moment of madness last night and starting thinking about an e39 M5. Always told myself the key to a good BMW was to go for the one just below the M car, not the M car itself...
Mr Tidy said:
I completely understand you wanting an N/A engine - me too!
BMW quote 6.1 seconds to 100 kmh for the 130i, and 6.3 seconds for the 330i so I'm not sure it would feel that disappointing to be fair.
After 5 years with 3.0Si Z4 Coupes I finally bought a Z4M Coupe in December - believe me the M really is the one to go for!
But you might find an E39 540i.
It’s not the absolute figures, more the feel. The 130i just feels so alive and energetic compared with bigger cars, and I imagine that’s the case compared with the 330i. Imagine the Z4 is even more so.BMW quote 6.1 seconds to 100 kmh for the 130i, and 6.3 seconds for the 330i so I'm not sure it would feel that disappointing to be fair.
After 5 years with 3.0Si Z4 Coupes I finally bought a Z4M Coupe in December - believe me the M really is the one to go for!
But you might find an E39 540i.
Well, maybe, but I like the underdog; prefer the smooth, progressive 3.0-litre compared with the raucous, much heavier 3.2.
E39 is a nice idea on paper, but as exciting as the M5 surely is, a 540i was never going to cut it!
Mr Tidy said:
My 3 litre Z4C definitely felt significantly quicker than my 330i, but possibly partly because the 330i is so much more refined!
A 3 litre Z4C will definitely be cheaper to run than an M, but it's only about 100kg lighter. Mind you road tax is over £200 a year cheaper.
I'll take the 100kg saving! A 3 litre Z4C will definitely be cheaper to run than an M, but it's only about 100kg lighter. Mind you road tax is over £200 a year cheaper.
Spotted a very nicely looked after 130i LE earlier. Ok the LE is a high-spec facelift model, but it looks so much better quality inside than most Z4s.
Why couldn't they fit the leather on the doors properly in the Z4 and give it a nice-looking wheel and dials? The outside is so right it makes the interior look cheap and nasty even though it looks very much like a sports car cabin.
Mr Tidy said:
Looks good. Loads of Z4s look really tatty inside with scrunched up leather all around, while a few others look very tidy. Don’t get it...
Found a Z4 M with immaculate extended Amarone leather, including across the dash, but others look trashed at 70k miles.
cerb4.5lee said:
The interior and the way my Z4M was put together was a bit of a shock for me compared to the other Bmw's I'd had. So I'm not surprised that they don't wear well as they get older, and mine had 36k miles on it back in 2012 and the interior was full of rattles...I guess the punishing ride/suspension doesn't help much with that though.
Is this just simply the result of it being made in the US?My 130is - especially the facelift one - were notably better than the Z4s I looked at way back. And my Legacy is hardly the most soft-touchy thing in the world, but touch points like wheel and gearstick feel so much more tactile and solid.
Quality questions plus ability to climb out through the boot - yes the garage is that narrow! - are all pushing me towards the 130i. Anyone driven a 130i on sorted suspension and a Z4 - do you really lose that much handling-wise with 130i? Hoping to drive - or at least get in - a Z4 this weekend to answer at least one of those.
TameRacingDriver said:
Have to agree my old z4c did feel quite low rent inside compared with almost any other BMW I've owned or been in. Shame really as the exterior is (subjectively) the best you can get in this price bracket.
I'm also considering a 130i as my next car so I'll be interested how you get on. If they were better looking it would almost be a no brainer.
Every time I look at the exterior of the Z4 I get seduced. But every time I went and sat in one in the past I got turned off and bought a 130i!I'm also considering a 130i as my next car so I'll be interested how you get on. If they were better looking it would almost be a no brainer.
Now I’m in a position where I have a separate sensible car and would value the sports car feel - and there’s less price difference between 130is and Z4s - I feel like I should get a Z4. Interior quality is no doubt less noticeable in a second car than a daily...
Stupid question, but is there any chance in hell of climbing in/out over seat and through the hatch? If I knew I could get it in the garage and get myself out, I’m sure I would plump for the Z4, naff interior or not.
TameRacingDriver said:
You might be skinnier than me but I wouldn't have fancied my chances of climbing out of the boot, but it's been a few years so I can't remember exactly how small it is. I would have thought getting over the back of the seats might pose a significant challenge 
Thanks. I’m relatively slim, but can’t imagine managing it without destroying myself or the car! Damn. So, choice is Z4 on the drive or 130i in the garage. How stealable are Z4s - they’re not like Golf Rs, are they?
As much as I really want to park whatever I get in the garage, maybe I should just give myself a good talking to and jam the Z4 between the Legacy and garage door...
All depends whether Z4 is that much more exciting than 130i. Will hopefully find out over the weekend.
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