Thinking for long about a daily car. But options are few.
Discussion
I want a daily driver which is practical but somewhat rewarding. Something with a back seat. I would love a large type of coupe. Something like a BMW 6 coupe, if I didn't hate the look so much. But 4-doors could do as well, since coupes are rare these days. But I need petrol, RWD and 3-pedals. So options are not numerous.
I'm not sure I have the courage to go with a Jaguar because of reliability. And a XE is quite a boring looking car. S-type has more personality but again I fear the reliability.
Most of the Mercedes are diesel only for manual, or dull to drive. Or too much money.
Most of the BMWs are not my type. Either ugly or playing too hard the alpha male card.
Mustang and Camaro are similar. Although good looking. But still have that over aggressive boarding chavvy attitude.
I'm more for an understated style. For example if the Peugeot 406 was RWD. Or even a Monaro, which back then was maybe a bit aggressive but compared to most cars today is understated. Except that I need LHD. I'm living in the continent.
After much thinking and not coming up with many ideas, I basically force selected 2 options. A Lexus IS250 and a RX8. Neither is exactly what I want. But both offer parts of it or have advantages over the other.
The RX8 is sporty, supposedly a great steer, has back seats and even rear doors. Maintenance and reliability is what scares me as well as rust. If it wasn't for all the pros it wouldn't be considered at all. But where is one to find a RWD, 3-pedal great handling and fun coupe with rear seats and even rear doors?
The IS250 is selected basically because it's probably the only RWD 3-pedal saloon which is not a BMW or Mercedes. The pros of it is it's well built, reliable, cheap to run and sounds better than the RX8. But I find the styling so boring and it has very little appeal to me. I have no doubt that apart from looking better, the RX8 is also the much better drive.
But from where I'm looking there doesn't seem to be more options.
I've been thinking over this for sometime now.
I'm not sure I have the courage to go with a Jaguar because of reliability. And a XE is quite a boring looking car. S-type has more personality but again I fear the reliability.
Most of the Mercedes are diesel only for manual, or dull to drive. Or too much money.
Most of the BMWs are not my type. Either ugly or playing too hard the alpha male card.
Mustang and Camaro are similar. Although good looking. But still have that over aggressive boarding chavvy attitude.
I'm more for an understated style. For example if the Peugeot 406 was RWD. Or even a Monaro, which back then was maybe a bit aggressive but compared to most cars today is understated. Except that I need LHD. I'm living in the continent.
After much thinking and not coming up with many ideas, I basically force selected 2 options. A Lexus IS250 and a RX8. Neither is exactly what I want. But both offer parts of it or have advantages over the other.
The RX8 is sporty, supposedly a great steer, has back seats and even rear doors. Maintenance and reliability is what scares me as well as rust. If it wasn't for all the pros it wouldn't be considered at all. But where is one to find a RWD, 3-pedal great handling and fun coupe with rear seats and even rear doors?
The IS250 is selected basically because it's probably the only RWD 3-pedal saloon which is not a BMW or Mercedes. The pros of it is it's well built, reliable, cheap to run and sounds better than the RX8. But I find the styling so boring and it has very little appeal to me. I have no doubt that apart from looking better, the RX8 is also the much better drive.
But from where I'm looking there doesn't seem to be more options.
I've been thinking over this for sometime now.
Mr Tidy said:
To be honest if you rule out BMWs there isn't much left with RWD and manual gearboxes!
That might be why I'm on my 7th and 8th BMWs.
Lexus IS250 makes about the same power as my E46 325ti did, but Band M road tax in the UK isn't great!
RX8 manages 231 bhp but post 23 March 2006 also costs £570 a year in road tax, and has the potential for a £3K engine rebuild from time to time.
Good luck finding a 200+bhp manual Mercedes.
Honestly I'm totally fine with 200 hp or less. I will daily it. 200 hp is plenty. That might be why I'm on my 7th and 8th BMWs.
Lexus IS250 makes about the same power as my E46 325ti did, but Band M road tax in the UK isn't great!
RX8 manages 231 bhp but post 23 March 2006 also costs £570 a year in road tax, and has the potential for a £3K engine rebuild from time to time.
Good luck finding a 200+bhp manual Mercedes.
Edited by Mr Tidy on Thursday 22 October 04:38
Scootersp said:
Infinity G 3.7L
I agree outside of BMW pickings are slim!
I agree. This is naturally the reason I ended at IS250 or RX8 as a choice. If the RX8 had a conventional engine instead of the rotary it would be the obvious choice and quite perfect actually. Because it hasn't is the reason the IS250 is in the run.I agree outside of BMW pickings are slim!
The G35 and G37 fall in the same class as a Hyundai coupe or Toyota GT86. Not practical enough for daily, not sexy enough to overlook that or for a weekend car. The RX8 seems to beat them in every way, looks being subjective.
But the rotary though.
ChrisH72 said:
Wait, the G37 falls into the same class as a Hyundai coupe or GT86. In what way?
Isn't it a 2+2? So no practical enough for daily, not sexy enough to overlook that or for a weekend car. In this way.At least in photos the rear seats don't seem to have any more space than the RX8. But the RX8 at least has rear doors.
ChrisH72 said:
The infinity is a big car, almost 4.7m long. It's got a big boot and space in the rear so seems pretty practical. Also a 320bhp V6 which is a little more poke than a Hyundai coupe.
Yes more poke. But power is at the bottom of the list. As I said 200 hp is more than fine. It will be a daily. But the G37 is neither as practical as the RX8 or IS250 or good looking enough to make me want it so bad I would overlooked that. 
ChrisH72 said:
What kind of budget are you looking at?
I'm not sure budget would make much difference here? I think what cuts it down is RWD with 3-pedals. The more expensive we go, the more likely it will be an automatic I would say. Or be just 2 seats or a 2+2. What do you have in mind that is expensive, RWD, 3-pedals and practical apart from the Giulia Q4, which yes, is way over budget. But apart from that and BMWs I don't think there is anything regardless of budget?
ChrisH72 said:
Well you did say you wanted a large coupe with back seats ideally. The Lexus isn't a coupe.
I ran an E92 325i for 3 years and it was a decent car. About as practical as coupes get, there was no problems with child seats in the rear and as the back seats could fold flat the load area was huge. Good to drive, RWD, manual and 218bhp.
Looks are subjective.
I'm sure the is250 is okay although reviews put it a long way behind BMW for driving enjoyment. RX8 is a completely different car altogether, fairly small and hideously unreliable. Cheap though.
And budget does matter if you're asking people for suggestions.
An Aston Martin Vanquish has back seats and is a coupe. Or a 911, or an Evora. Or at the other end you could get an old Toyota Celica for £500
I didn't mean to be rude or anything. I didn't mean budget didn't matter in that way. I meant that I didn't think I would have more options regardless of budget. I ran an E92 325i for 3 years and it was a decent car. About as practical as coupes get, there was no problems with child seats in the rear and as the back seats could fold flat the load area was huge. Good to drive, RWD, manual and 218bhp.
Looks are subjective.
I'm sure the is250 is okay although reviews put it a long way behind BMW for driving enjoyment. RX8 is a completely different car altogether, fairly small and hideously unreliable. Cheap though.
And budget does matter if you're asking people for suggestions.
An Aston Martin Vanquish has back seats and is a coupe. Or a 911, or an Evora. Or at the other end you could get an old Toyota Celica for £500
Isn't the Vanquish auto only? 911 and Evora are highly impractical in my opinion. I think the G37 is very practical in comparison.
Yes, I would love a large coupe. I just didn't think the G37 was large. I thought it was about the size of a 350Z but with rear seats. I haven't seen one in a long time. Quite rare here.
But I meant large coupe like a
6 series or even new 8 series. Or the Maserati etc O S Class coupe. That type of thing.
ChrisH72 said:
The kind of car you describe is a BMW. And as you say, there's not really anything else that fits the criteria. So there has to be a compromise.
People do get really hung up on RWD which is fine if you like BMW. I enjoyed it for a while. But I now have a FWD hot hatch and in all honesty I can say it's more fun to drive than my old E92.
The Lexus is RWD but it's much more about comfort than handling and fun. If you're wanting a car that's great to drive I wouldn't buy an is250 just because it's RWD.
Practicality also depends on what you intend to use the car for. Do you need space for adults to sit in comfort in the rear? Or do you need good access which requires 4 doors? Or maybe you carry large items which need a big boot and folding seats?
Would AWD be an option, like Audi?
Space for 2 children in the rear seats. People do get really hung up on RWD which is fine if you like BMW. I enjoyed it for a while. But I now have a FWD hot hatch and in all honesty I can say it's more fun to drive than my old E92.
The Lexus is RWD but it's much more about comfort than handling and fun. If you're wanting a car that's great to drive I wouldn't buy an is250 just because it's RWD.
Practicality also depends on what you intend to use the car for. Do you need space for adults to sit in comfort in the rear? Or do you need good access which requires 4 doors? Or maybe you carry large items which need a big boot and folding seats?
Would AWD be an option, like Audi?
Yes options are thin on the ground. Hence why I said from the beginning it would be between the IS250 and RX8. I had thought about it already and couldn't come up with better options. Between the 2, which would you go for, based on the needs I put forward?
ChrisH72 said:
Between an is250 and an rx8 I would buy the Lexus. But I'd want the Mazda!
This is basically how I feel. I want the RX8. But I know the IS250 is the sensible choice.
ChrisH72 said:
I know that doesn't help much.
You already know the pros and cons of each.
Depends how old your kids are. As they get older they actually take up less space. The worst is infant with those huge travel systems and isofix bases with rear facing carriers. When they're a bit older (my boy is nearly 5) they can fit in almost anything, even with little leg room. But then when they are teenagers they might need headroom. If they're still very little maybe get the Lexus for now and look at 2dr in a couple of years?
They are 3 and 6. No more rear facing carriers. Just the forward booster seats.You already know the pros and cons of each.
Depends how old your kids are. As they get older they actually take up less space. The worst is infant with those huge travel systems and isofix bases with rear facing carriers. When they're a bit older (my boy is nearly 5) they can fit in almost anything, even with little leg room. But then when they are teenagers they might need headroom. If they're still very little maybe get the Lexus for now and look at 2dr in a couple of years?
ChrisH72 said:
Is it just the look of BMW you don't like?
.
Looks and also the whole aura they have. They also don't have the best reputation for reliability and I'm fully aware how that may sound coming from somebody considering a RX8. But the RX8 is special. But I would guess although not as reliable as the Lexus, BMWs are ok I guess..
So mainly the looks and the aura. But this is for the newer cars. BMWs of old are nicer looking.Things from the e46 and older are nicer looking. I would actually love an e46 M3 CSL. Not in black though. But that blue-silver they had. But they are big money. Actually any e46 2 doors here are already too much money for what they are. Even 318s. 330s are silly money for a 15 years old car. I guess they are getting into that semi classic territory already. e36 I never cared for. The e39 neither. Mainly a fat e46.
Things like the Z3 coupe are also nice looking in my opinion.The e34 and so on. But the new cars, specially M cars are just too chavvy for me. Just ugly too. As are newer AMGs. The e46 M3 CSL compared to newer M cars is very classy and understated.
But too old cars as a daily is not a smart idea. So I would say late 2000s and newer is a good range. 2006-2007 at least.
Edited by J4x4K on Saturday 24th October 13:36
Neither of the BMWs above is my type of car.
The cars I would really like, would be a Granturismo or a late XKR, if either were ever sold with 3-pedals. So a 2 door BMW is really far removed from that. I actually think BMW doesn't make any cars like that. They are either small 2 seaters like the Z4 or 2 door cars like a 4 series or 2 series. Nothing with a nice sport coupe shape.And nothing that doesn't look chavvy at this point.
This is why the RX8 is appealing. Despite the engine reputation it checks all boxes. I'm not even paying attention to the rust issues as here any car can rust because of the salt on the road. So you either find one without rust and take care of it, or don't buy.
A 350Z had it rear seats would also be appealing. Unfortunately the Infiniti G coupes are more like the 2 door BMWs and Mercedes than like the XKR or Granturismo.
So the more I think about it, the more the RX8 seems the only choice. I can't think of any other semi recent car in that style, Granturismo, XKR, 350Z, AMG GT, Vanquish MKI and the like, which is RWD, 3-pedals and has rear seats. They are either 2 seats or normal 2 doors cars, instead of that sport coupe shape with the long bonnet and all. If I'm obligated to go with a normal saloon, then I want at least have 4 doors. So a 2 doors 2 series, 3 series, 4 series, C-class and so on doesn't make sense. I then get the IS250. If I can't have a coupe, then a 4 door saloon it is.
If you go really old, like 90's I guess there is the 90's Supra. But that is just silly money and impossible to find stock at this point.
The cars I would really like, would be a Granturismo or a late XKR, if either were ever sold with 3-pedals. So a 2 door BMW is really far removed from that. I actually think BMW doesn't make any cars like that. They are either small 2 seaters like the Z4 or 2 door cars like a 4 series or 2 series. Nothing with a nice sport coupe shape.And nothing that doesn't look chavvy at this point.
This is why the RX8 is appealing. Despite the engine reputation it checks all boxes. I'm not even paying attention to the rust issues as here any car can rust because of the salt on the road. So you either find one without rust and take care of it, or don't buy.
A 350Z had it rear seats would also be appealing. Unfortunately the Infiniti G coupes are more like the 2 door BMWs and Mercedes than like the XKR or Granturismo.
So the more I think about it, the more the RX8 seems the only choice. I can't think of any other semi recent car in that style, Granturismo, XKR, 350Z, AMG GT, Vanquish MKI and the like, which is RWD, 3-pedals and has rear seats. They are either 2 seats or normal 2 doors cars, instead of that sport coupe shape with the long bonnet and all. If I'm obligated to go with a normal saloon, then I want at least have 4 doors. So a 2 doors 2 series, 3 series, 4 series, C-class and so on doesn't make sense. I then get the IS250. If I can't have a coupe, then a 4 door saloon it is.
If you go really old, like 90's I guess there is the 90's Supra. But that is just silly money and impossible to find stock at this point.
Shominy said:
IS 250 would be a good choice in my opinion for what you want, however, from all that I have read about the IS 250 the main takeaway points seem to be that it is just about the most reliable car you can buy, the main dealers are some of the best in the business, the V6 does not feel that powerful but is very smooth, and that the automatic is much, much better than the manual.
It was a car I'd considered for quite some time and I would always prefer a manual but everything I had read in reviews etc. said that the manual is not great in this, though it is very good in the earlier IS 200, and that the automatic is much preferred. Just something to take into account.
Yes, I'm not saying the IS250 is ideal. But RWD 3-pedal 4 doors saloons are rare.It was a car I'd considered for quite some time and I would always prefer a manual but everything I had read in reviews etc. said that the manual is not great in this, though it is very good in the earlier IS 200, and that the automatic is much preferred. Just something to take into account.
Shifter1 said:
Pretty much, unfortunately.
And the Mercedes don't even qualify as coupes in the proper sense of the word as the OP seems to mean. The C and E class coupes are just 2 doors saloons. Same with any BMW with rear seats. Not at all like a XKR, Granturismo or 911.
Yes. This is what I meant when I said the 2 doors 3 series and similar cars are normal 2 doors cars. They are not in the same league. The 2 doors versions of the Audi A5, C-class, E-class, 3 series, 4 series and so on belong together. But they don't belong with the Granturismo, XKR, 350Z, Astons and so on. Different style really. What is the same is they all have 2 doors. And the Mercedes don't even qualify as coupes in the proper sense of the word as the OP seems to mean. The C and E class coupes are just 2 doors saloons. Same with any BMW with rear seats. Not at all like a XKR, Granturismo or 911.
So the perfect car would be in that style of the Maserati or XKR or Aston, with rear seats, RWD and 3-pedals.
This is why I keep coming back to the RX8. It seems to come the closest while being affordable.
NewUsername said:
If cash is t an option I’ve seen a few of these converted with various engines, a VAG 4 pot turbo springs to mind retaining the rx8 gearbox.
That would be a fantastic car to own
That's interesting. Are there swap kits for that? Although will a swap really be more reliable? And will it ruin the famous handling?That would be a fantastic car to own
ChrisH72 said:
350z and 370z have no rear seats.
You can get coupes which are saloon based like the E92 and those which are hatchback based like the 3dr Mégane. They won't look like an XKR but they do have practicality and good rear seat space. As soon as you move to a more sleek and sporty shape you'll lose practicality, that's just physics. Can't have it all!
Really the two options you originally had, is250 or rx8, are the ones you should go and try.
I wanted a small hot hatch and knew from the start that the fiesta ST was the best car for the job. But they're common and the interior is cheap so I didn't really want one. I went round the houses looking for alternatives and in the end bought the fiesta. It was the right car all along.
I would think the practicality of a Granturismo or XKR would be sufficient. My kids are small. So the problem might not be the sleek shape but rather the lack of options of sleek shapes in RWD with 3-pedals.You can get coupes which are saloon based like the E92 and those which are hatchback based like the 3dr Mégane. They won't look like an XKR but they do have practicality and good rear seat space. As soon as you move to a more sleek and sporty shape you'll lose practicality, that's just physics. Can't have it all!
Really the two options you originally had, is250 or rx8, are the ones you should go and try.
I wanted a small hot hatch and knew from the start that the fiesta ST was the best car for the job. But they're common and the interior is cheap so I didn't really want one. I went round the houses looking for alternatives and in the end bought the fiesta. It was the right car all along.
I'm at the moment pursuing the idea of a RX8 and trying to muster the courage to risk buying one. Reading buying guides etc. I don't want to try it till I'm sure I can put up with it and decide to take the risk. Because I know if I drive one I will love it and I want to make the decision based not on heart but on brains.
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