Replacement for a Z4
Discussion
So I do like to try cars out, im not really wedded to any particular brand but I do have a few needs in a second weekend/fun car.
I'm currently driving a Z4 3.0si coupe. Its a cracking car. So overlooked and underappreciated. Prior to that I have had in order...
VX220 turbo
Celica GT4 ST205
Skyline R33
VX220 NA
Nissan 350z
VW Scirocco 1.4TSI
Prior to that going back into my yoof numerous Fiestas/Orions/Corsas etc.
Im really enjoying the Z4 but I know at some point I will look to try the next thing, but what is the next thing? I like the power it has, sub 6 second sprint time and great in gear acceleration. I am not into hot hatches at all, the idea of a Golf GTi as my second car fills me with dread, it has to be something that would turn heads as its not a common hatchback box. I dont have a drive so I am not looking for something that would need to be up on stands half the time being restored, it has to be bought and driven. If I was to move the Z4 on and stick ten grand on something next, what would it be?
I dont like the idea of of a 986 boxster, and I would be scraping the barrel of any cayman purchase. I dont feel excited as I say looking at Golfs and other hot hatches. Ive read a few horror stories of MX5 conversions so looking to stay away from those. I feel a little stuck like I am running out of 'next cars' to have.
I'm currently driving a Z4 3.0si coupe. Its a cracking car. So overlooked and underappreciated. Prior to that I have had in order...
VX220 turbo
Celica GT4 ST205
Skyline R33
VX220 NA
Nissan 350z
VW Scirocco 1.4TSI
Prior to that going back into my yoof numerous Fiestas/Orions/Corsas etc.
Im really enjoying the Z4 but I know at some point I will look to try the next thing, but what is the next thing? I like the power it has, sub 6 second sprint time and great in gear acceleration. I am not into hot hatches at all, the idea of a Golf GTi as my second car fills me with dread, it has to be something that would turn heads as its not a common hatchback box. I dont have a drive so I am not looking for something that would need to be up on stands half the time being restored, it has to be bought and driven. If I was to move the Z4 on and stick ten grand on something next, what would it be?
I dont like the idea of of a 986 boxster, and I would be scraping the barrel of any cayman purchase. I dont feel excited as I say looking at Golfs and other hot hatches. Ive read a few horror stories of MX5 conversions so looking to stay away from those. I feel a little stuck like I am running out of 'next cars' to have.
I can afford something better, I just set myself a rough 10k budget as a weekend play car (thats been agreed with the missus!)
I dont see the 370z as that much a step up from the 350z to warrant owning that chassis again.
I am thinking keep it a bit longer, but I am certainly not in the 'keeper' camp, I see cars as experiences and not something where I end up driving the same one for years on end.
I dont see the 370z as that much a step up from the 350z to warrant owning that chassis again.
I am thinking keep it a bit longer, but I am certainly not in the 'keeper' camp, I see cars as experiences and not something where I end up driving the same one for years on end.
Yes not looking for a big car is good/bad barney on here!
The GT86 is not on the radar, I owned a VX220 turbo not so long ago and that was multiples the fun the GT86 is plus oodles faster too. As well as being a huge adrenaline rush on top of it all.
The Z4 is very capable, lazy power, comfort and lovely interior...even at 13 years old the interior is better quality than the 370z. So I cannot see myself going into a 370z.
The Porsche definitely has the bork factor, I can't be bothered with that.
It still leaves me rubbing my chin. I looked at TTS's and possibly throwing a remap at them but I heard they are very numb to drive. Shame the country went JDM mad and all the old 90s Japanese cars have gone stupid prices.
The GT86 is not on the radar, I owned a VX220 turbo not so long ago and that was multiples the fun the GT86 is plus oodles faster too. As well as being a huge adrenaline rush on top of it all.
The Z4 is very capable, lazy power, comfort and lovely interior...even at 13 years old the interior is better quality than the 370z. So I cannot see myself going into a 370z.
The Porsche definitely has the bork factor, I can't be bothered with that.
It still leaves me rubbing my chin. I looked at TTS's and possibly throwing a remap at them but I heard they are very numb to drive. Shame the country went JDM mad and all the old 90s Japanese cars have gone stupid prices.
Crudeoink said:
XKR with a manual swap (check out the DriveTribe video)
BBR MX5 Mk3
Toyota MR2 with the 2ZZ swap
Abarth 124 Spider
SLK350 ?
Or stay with BMW and get a Z4M
Your list of requirements of Cheap, Fast and Reliable are somewhat comflicting unfortunately, especially outside of the Hot Hatch segment.
Thanks, my previous cars have all been in budget, been reliable and pretty fast. So its very achievable. I think I have burnt through a few good options and just checking really Im not missing anything obvious. The TTS is relatively cheap fast and reliable as I understand it, but Ive heard its lacking feel (so not related to those three words) which is putting me off. BBR MX5 Mk3
Toyota MR2 with the 2ZZ swap
Abarth 124 Spider
SLK350 ?
Or stay with BMW and get a Z4M
Your list of requirements of Cheap, Fast and Reliable are somewhat comflicting unfortunately, especially outside of the Hot Hatch segment.
BBR MX5s again heard not positive things about them in terms of reliability, but again I guess you only hear the bad stuff.
I did almost buy (even had a deposit down on one) an RCZ R before I got the Z4 ... so I am trying to think of left field options like that.
Porsches for sure are more chuckable than the Z4, but isnt that the point. Its like when people point fingers at things like the 350z and compare it to a Porsche, they are designed for two very separate things. The Z4 is wonderfully designed as a GT car, the Boxster isnt. I am amazed how much this debate comes around comparing apples with oranges and only looking at how citrusy each is.
Thanks for ideas though, I think many are starting to float well out of budget especially things like Corvettes and Porsches!
Thanks for ideas though, I think many are starting to float well out of budget especially things like Corvettes and Porsches!
msportpanda said:
As biased as I am I'd chuck in a recommendation for a Z4M.
I was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
Yep all good stuff but well out of budget so not a considerationI was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
TameRacingDriver said:
I'm not going to try and change your mind, but I'd be interested about what, and from whom you heard that. I've had my BBR Super 200 NC for nearly a year now, and until whatever suspension part failed at xmas (not a BBR component), it has been super reliable despite having nearly 140k on the clock.
I've had a similar(ish) car history to yourself OP, and rank this as one of the most fun cars I've had, but I've not had a VX220. I would imagine the BBR would be a good middle ground between your bigger sports cars like your Z4 or a Boxster / Cayman / 3x0Z in that it's reasonably refined, but still light and raw enough to be engaging.
I have no other input really, except to say I'm interested to see what you end up with. I have also had a Z4 3.0Si Coupe and they are great cars I reckon. OK not the best ride and handling, and the exhaust note needs liberating, but they feel quite special to me. Given the all-round capability and running costs, I think it would be a fairly difficult car to replace in many respects.
I've had a 986 Boxster S too, and while the Porsche is definitely a sweeter handling car, I wouldn't say it felt massively more fun than the Z4, but there was always that thing in the back of my mind about it presenting me with an enormous bill. That said, it hasn't stopped me thinking about a Cayman, but see the point about enormous bills
The 370Z is said by some to be a much better chassis than the 350Z but I haven't driven a 370Z to confirm.
GT86 with some mods would be a good shout, wouldn't have a standard one though personally. I think like the NC MX5, it needs a few small mods to get it where it should have been in the first place.
Super helpful thanks a really good write up. I've had a similar(ish) car history to yourself OP, and rank this as one of the most fun cars I've had, but I've not had a VX220. I would imagine the BBR would be a good middle ground between your bigger sports cars like your Z4 or a Boxster / Cayman / 3x0Z in that it's reasonably refined, but still light and raw enough to be engaging.
I have no other input really, except to say I'm interested to see what you end up with. I have also had a Z4 3.0Si Coupe and they are great cars I reckon. OK not the best ride and handling, and the exhaust note needs liberating, but they feel quite special to me. Given the all-round capability and running costs, I think it would be a fairly difficult car to replace in many respects.
I've had a 986 Boxster S too, and while the Porsche is definitely a sweeter handling car, I wouldn't say it felt massively more fun than the Z4, but there was always that thing in the back of my mind about it presenting me with an enormous bill. That said, it hasn't stopped me thinking about a Cayman, but see the point about enormous bills
The 370Z is said by some to be a much better chassis than the 350Z but I haven't driven a 370Z to confirm.
GT86 with some mods would be a good shout, wouldn't have a standard one though personally. I think like the NC MX5, it needs a few small mods to get it where it should have been in the first place.
The BBR I heard from a few guys talking at a few car meets whenever I spoke about MX5s with them. Obviously all second hand but heard that said by different people. Yes the Cayman would be what I want but going for the cheapest one doesn't fill me with confidence lol
Took the Z4 for an MOT and went through no problem, happy days. I do it over by my parents house which is about 90 mins away as an excuse to go see them etc. and driving it there and back it is a great car I have to say. No B roads around here but its ability to zip out of lanes and power past stuff is pretty impressive for a non M car in the BMW range.
So for all the talk of B roads, how often do I actually end up on one, without traffic in front of me? Definitely a consideration.
Also regarding the comments about a muted exhaust, for those that don't know, the Z4 has a noise pipe that ports noise from the induction/engine bay into the cabin. I took out the foam inserts to allow the noise to flow freely and under load it makes an amazing nose in the cabin, proper engine noise, not noise from an exhaust. The straight 6 just howls in fact I prefer it to some large bore exhaust if I am honest.
So where am i now. I might just have to hold on to it for now if the only other options are modified cars, a slower Toyota or a potential borking Porsche. Might not be a bad thing actually.
So for all the talk of B roads, how often do I actually end up on one, without traffic in front of me? Definitely a consideration.
Also regarding the comments about a muted exhaust, for those that don't know, the Z4 has a noise pipe that ports noise from the induction/engine bay into the cabin. I took out the foam inserts to allow the noise to flow freely and under load it makes an amazing nose in the cabin, proper engine noise, not noise from an exhaust. The straight 6 just howls in fact I prefer it to some large bore exhaust if I am honest.
So where am i now. I might just have to hold on to it for now if the only other options are modified cars, a slower Toyota or a potential borking Porsche. Might not be a bad thing actually.
cerb4.5lee said:
C70R said:
coldel said:
Took the Z4 for an MOT and went through no problem, happy days. I do it over by my parents house which is about 90 mins away as an excuse to go see them etc. and driving it there and back it is a great car I have to say. No B roads around here but its ability to zip out of lanes and power past stuff is pretty impressive for a non M car in the BMW range.
So for all the talk of B roads, how often do I actually end up on one, without traffic in front of me? Definitely a consideration.
Also regarding the comments about a muted exhaust, for those that don't know, the Z4 has a noise pipe that ports noise from the induction/engine bay into the cabin. I took out the foam inserts to allow the noise to flow freely and under load it makes an amazing nose in the cabin, proper engine noise, not noise from an exhaust. The straight 6 just howls in fact I prefer it to some large bore exhaust if I am honest.
So where am i now. I might just have to hold on to it for now if the only other options are modified cars, a slower Toyota or a potential borking Porsche. Might not be a bad thing actually.
It sounds like for your use the Z4 is probably a good choice of car. It's a sensible car, that's cost-effective to run, nippy and entertaining up to 7/10ths. Lots of people would kill for a car like that.So for all the talk of B roads, how often do I actually end up on one, without traffic in front of me? Definitely a consideration.
Also regarding the comments about a muted exhaust, for those that don't know, the Z4 has a noise pipe that ports noise from the induction/engine bay into the cabin. I took out the foam inserts to allow the noise to flow freely and under load it makes an amazing nose in the cabin, proper engine noise, not noise from an exhaust. The straight 6 just howls in fact I prefer it to some large bore exhaust if I am honest.
So where am i now. I might just have to hold on to it for now if the only other options are modified cars, a slower Toyota or a potential borking Porsche. Might not be a bad thing actually.
The engine is a peach and the manual gearbox is tight and great to shift. I bought it because I wanted something I could relax in and enjoy vs the often terrifying VX220. And I need to keep reminding myself thats why I bought it!
TameRacingDriver said:
What is the engine like for reliability and running costs compared with the N52?
They are really, really pretty cars though for sure. In a way, the thought of owning a car that is both a hard and soft top, a car that is both sporty and luxurious, as pretty as it is and relatively cheap to buy is quite appealing in many respects.
The 3.0L E89 has the N52 in it if you want to stick with something tried and tested ( I believe!) . Obviously the 35i has the turbos to give great tuning options. They are really, really pretty cars though for sure. In a way, the thought of owning a car that is both a hard and soft top, a car that is both sporty and luxurious, as pretty as it is and relatively cheap to buy is quite appealing in many respects.
Mr Tidy said:
If you aren't too sure you should probably keep the Z4 Coupe.
I learnt that the hard way when I got a big bill for a water pump on my first one. Someone did a 300 mile or so round-trip to view it so the next day I took it for a last drive and realised I had made a big mistake. But that evening the guy who had viewed it called to put a deposit on it, so 2 days later I went to look at another one and left a deposit on that!
A bit higher mileage and lower spec but a previous owner had fitted a custom cat-back exhaust and it sounded great!
I never planned to sell it until I had driven an M Coupe then saw one advertised at a price I just couldn't resist. That was 3 years ago and it's staying.
Yeah I am going to stick with it for a while, I dont actually do keepers, so I think its more of a case of if I see a car I really fancy I will sell it rather than sell it and try find a car I really want. It is an under rated car, I kind of like that in a way. I learnt that the hard way when I got a big bill for a water pump on my first one. Someone did a 300 mile or so round-trip to view it so the next day I took it for a last drive and realised I had made a big mistake. But that evening the guy who had viewed it called to put a deposit on it, so 2 days later I went to look at another one and left a deposit on that!
A bit higher mileage and lower spec but a previous owner had fitted a custom cat-back exhaust and it sounded great!
I never planned to sell it until I had driven an M Coupe then saw one advertised at a price I just couldn't resist. That was 3 years ago and it's staying.
jm8403 said:
Perhaps is it underrated, evo certainly speak very highly of it
https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/z4/6440/bmw-z4-30si-coup...
Not by journos but by the general public who dont know enough about them to comment with any substance (but they still try!) https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/z4/6440/bmw-z4-30si-coup...
C70R said:
jm8403 said:
coldel said:
Yeah I am going to stick with it for a while, I dont actually do keepers, so I think its more of a case of if I see a car I really fancy I will sell it rather than sell it and try find a car I really want. It is an under rated car, I kind of like that in a way.
Perhaps is it underrated, evo certainly speak very highly of ithttps://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/z4/6440/bmw-z4-30si-coup...
I found the steering vague, the damping crashy, and the chassis understeery.
Jayemm I think had the roadster Z4M did he? So not quite apples and apples but close enough I would suggest to talk about bumpy ride etc.
What I am coming to appreciate for the Z4C is that for all the talk of it not being able to attack B roads (which you could adapt the car to do a lot better with suspension, ARB, suspension settings etc) is that living in zone 3 in west London B roads are far and few between. I have also used two VX220s on B roads which make an old Boxster seem a bit meh in comparison.
But yes its all about needs. If someone needs something to drive their B roads daily they will give a Z4C a bad review. If they need something to live with daily across multiple road types, it actually is a good shout.
...and like jayemm i also discovered the auto hill start function by chance, it made me very happy lol
What I am coming to appreciate for the Z4C is that for all the talk of it not being able to attack B roads (which you could adapt the car to do a lot better with suspension, ARB, suspension settings etc) is that living in zone 3 in west London B roads are far and few between. I have also used two VX220s on B roads which make an old Boxster seem a bit meh in comparison.
But yes its all about needs. If someone needs something to drive their B roads daily they will give a Z4C a bad review. If they need something to live with daily across multiple road types, it actually is a good shout.
...and like jayemm i also discovered the auto hill start function by chance, it made me very happy lol
Well I am going to keep mine for now I think. Have a good tinker with it over spring time and get a few road trips booked in for the summer.
I really cannot see anything worth changing it for at the moment, Boxster isnt worth the potential bork, MX5 or 124 just dont have the power, same with GT86. B road thrashing is fun but not worth choosing a car for the 1% of driving I do on them. And the Z4C just looks gorgeous and so different.
So I am sticking for now...especially given the reputational damage the Z4C Values thread has done to any chance of selling one
I really cannot see anything worth changing it for at the moment, Boxster isnt worth the potential bork, MX5 or 124 just dont have the power, same with GT86. B road thrashing is fun but not worth choosing a car for the 1% of driving I do on them. And the Z4C just looks gorgeous and so different.
So I am sticking for now...especially given the reputational damage the Z4C Values thread has done to any chance of selling one
TameRacingDriver said:
coldel said:
Well I am going to keep mine for now I think. Have a good tinker with it over spring time and get a few road trips booked in for the summer.
I really cannot see anything worth changing it for at the moment, Boxster isnt worth the potential bork, MX5 or 124 just dont have the power, same with GT86. B road thrashing is fun but not worth choosing a car for the 1% of driving I do on them. And the Z4C just looks gorgeous and so different.
So I am sticking for now...especially given the reputational damage the Z4C Values thread has done to any chance of selling one
Mate, if you want to sell yours to me for 50p, the money is waiting I really cannot see anything worth changing it for at the moment, Boxster isnt worth the potential bork, MX5 or 124 just dont have the power, same with GT86. B road thrashing is fun but not worth choosing a car for the 1% of driving I do on them. And the Z4C just looks gorgeous and so different.
So I am sticking for now...especially given the reputational damage the Z4C Values thread has done to any chance of selling one
The manual gearbox is pretty awesome I have to say, really wrings out the revs and the gear throw (once you get rid of the awful plastic stick it comes with) is short and solid. If I compare it to the 350z gear box I had for instance the Nissan felt like it came out of a tractor. They should be about 2 grand for a 20k mile manual by the spring too
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